4GB RAM with S939

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Phlegethon

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2004
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I'm planning to build a system with an Athlon 64 3500+ and 4GB of RAM. I'm not committed to a motherboard yet, but I've been looking at the Abit AV8. I do not plan to overclock and stability is more important to me than performance. Does anyone have any recommendations on RAM? Four 1024MB modules will be pricey, so I'd like to get a good value, but I know that cheap RAM can be problematic. Is it more likely that I will get this to work if I run it at a lower-then-max bus speed? (I'm going to be manipulating some >3GB files so it's much better to have 4GB of, say, DDR333 RAM than 2GB of the fastest RAM available.) Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[edit] Does anyone have experience with this RAM:
(OCZ Performance Series 184-Pin 1GB DDR PC-3200)
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...=20-146-969&depa=1
Should I be able to throw 4 of these into an S939 motherboard and have them work? Is there anything cheaper that might be OK?
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
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Phlegethon I'm planning to build a system with an Athlon 64 3500+ and 4GB of RAM.
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What did you end up with and how well did it work? I'm planning a similiar 4GB RAM, A64.
:)
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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Methinks an Opteron setup with R-ECC memory would be the best bet here. You want stability, there you go.
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Yes. With unbuffered stuff, and twin double-sided DIMMs on each channel, you'll have to back down to DDR333. Besides, you do know that in a 32-bit operating system, you won't be able to use 4 GBytes of RAM, more like 3-and-a-bit?
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: Peter
Yes. With unbuffered stuff, and twin double-sided DIMMs on each channel, you'll have to back down to DDR333. Besides, you do know that in a 32-bit operating system, you won't be able to use 4 GBytes of RAM, more like 3-and-a-bit?
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Thanks Peter, was vaguely aware of the RAM limitation of WinXP. That's why I proposed a 2-step approach, awaiting Win64. See my proposed System Please add your comments.
:)
 
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Phlegethon

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2004
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I ended up building the system with the RAM Concilian mentioned or something close to it. As mentioned above, I was on a budget and it was more important to have 4GB running at DDR333 than 1 or 2 running at DDR400+. I got the Abit AV8 motherboard, and I've been using it with 32-bit WinXP (there is a public beta for AMD64, but I don't trust that it will work) and two 64-bit Linux distros, Fedora and Gentoo. It works well, except that Linux can't seem to use SATA drives with that board, and AGP does not work with my nVidia GeForce 6800GT under Linux, apparently due to a problem with MTRR settings.

I believe this AGP issue is an intrinsic problem; I've only run across one other person with 4GB of RAM (on a different VIA K8T800 Pro-based motherboard) and s/he was having the same problem. So, under Linux the 6800GT runs at 40-50% of its max speed, which is annoying. If I had to do it again, I'd get the MSI nForce 3 motherboard instead, but I don't think that would fix the AGP problem.
 
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gobucks

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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I'd go for an opteron in your case. The stability will be good considering the huge amount of ram you're gonna be using. Honestly, if you're gonna spend that much on RAM, why not go for dual opterons while you're at it, since the extra cache will help, plus you're already spending like $600 or more just the memory.

Oh, BTW, the A64 memory controller can only handle 2 sticks of RAM at DDR400. Anything beyond that defaults down to DDR333.
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: gobucks
. . . if you're gonna spend that much on RAM, why not go for dual opterons while you're at it, since the extra cache will help, plus you're already spending like $600 or more just the memory.
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Some compelling logic in your statement, my only problem is power, I live Off-the-Grid and my electric budget is ~3KWH/day. This is one of the reasons P4/Prescott was rejected. I will investigate Opteron, possibly dual-core Opteron in`05, will it be Skt 940 or 939?


. . . the A64 memory controller can only handle 2 sticks of RAM at DDR400. Anything beyond that defaults down to DDR333.
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Didn't know this, I keep learning, glad I posted to this thread. :)


 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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... which is, can't say that often enough, not because the A64 memory controller doesn't do any better, but because the PC3200 and PC2700 standards define it that way. PC3200 (aka 200 MHz DDR, aka "DDR400") is one-DIMM-only, PC2700 is electrically calculated for two DIMMs, PC2100 for three.

This is one of the reasons why Registered DIMMs are to be preferred for large amounts of RAM - the Register chips offload the bus signals, and allow more DIMMs before the signal quality deteriorates enough to force a stepdown in frequency.
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: Peter
... which is, can't say that often enough, not because the A64 memory controller doesn't do any better, but because the PC3200 and PC2700 standards define it that way. PC3200 (aka 200 MHz DDR, aka "DDR400") is one-DIMM-only, PC2700 is electrically calculated for two DIMMs, PC2100 for three.

This is one of the reasons why Registered DIMMs are to be preferred for large amounts of RAM - the Register chips offload the bus signals, and allow more DIMMs before the signal quality deteriorates enough to force a stepdown in frequency.
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Peter, you've upset my apple cart with this bit of knowledge. As I understand these two paragraphs, Budget and 4GB are mutually exclusive. Either I go Registered DIMMs or 4GB is not feasible. Just because there are 4 DIMM sockets on these MBs, doesn't mean I can populate each with a 1GB DIMM and expect everything to run sweet.

Its time for the Hermit to rest his weary brain and ponder . . . oh the pain. :frown:

However, I do want thank you for bearing with this wanna-be-geek. :)
 
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Phlegethon

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2004
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Peter, you've upset my apple cart with this bit of knowledge. As I understand these two paragraphs, Budget and 4GB are mutually exclusive. Either I go Registered DIMMs or 4GB is not feasible. Just because there are 4 DIMM sockets on these MBs, doesn't mean I can populate each with a 1GB DIMM and expect everything to run sweet.
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Don't listen to these elitist snobs! (j/k, no disrespect intended.) I have 4GB of regular PC3200 RAM in my system, and it definitely works great, with no instability observed. Yes, it's running at DDR333, but hey, it's quite a bit faster than virtual memory.
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: Phlegethon
I have 4GB of regular PC3200 RAM in my system, and it definitely works great, with no instability observed. Yes, it's running at DDR333, but hey, it's quite a bit faster than virtual memory.
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Phlegethon,

The following are the basics of the system I'm planning, would appreciate your comments:

Initial Configuration:
Athlon 64 3000+, Skt 939, Winchester, OC ~2.5GHz
MB: ATI chipset w/ integrated video or MSI nF3 w/ low end VGA
2 - 1GB PC3200 DDR (~$375/pair)
WD 60GB IDE boot HD (have this)
Coolmax Tuarus 120mm 400W PS
WinXP Home (have this)

Final Configuration:
Add 2 - 1GB PC3200 DDR (total 4GB)
Win64 (should MS ever decide to release it)
WD 74GB SATA Raptor (boot and swap)
2-3 200-400 GB HDs (IDE, SATA?)

The video is low end because I plan to run the workstation remotely from my laptop via ethernet.
:)
 
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Phlegethon

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2004
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21stHermit,

I've heard good things about the MSI nForce 3 motherboard, but have no personal experience with it. I can tell you that the Abit AV8 works well in Windows, except that you won't be able to easily boot off SATA drives (good luck doing this with any board though). You didn't specify what brand of RAM you're getting; I bought two packages of OCZ DD400 2x1GB (OCZ4002048V3DC-K, part 20-146-841 at NewEgg.com) and it worked fine. I'm not overclocking my system because I do want it to be stable, but that's up to you.
 
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21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
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Phlegethon

The NewEgg P/N you supplied is only $20 more than the 3 - P/Ns at $375. Currently, NewEgg dominates the value RAM leader board. PC3200 - 2 x 1GB

Overclocking shouldn't be a problem, all good MBs allow ratioing the CPU and RAM, such that each can run at their "ideal" frequency.

Do so appreciate your jumping back in on your thread, nothing like a functioning 4GB box to make a point.

BTW, What's a "Phlegethon"? I'm sure you can figure out what a 21st Century Hermit is. :)
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: jose
Peter,

Are you saying that all 32bit OS's can't access 4gigs of ram or just windows ?

Also you are saying that when using 1gig mem sticks it's better to use registered memory ? correct ?
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32-bit addressing means 2^32 addresses, which is exactly 4 GBytes. For _everything_ - PCI and AGP device mapping, AGP aperture, BIOS ROM, misc pieces of PC architecture, and then RAM.

"Pro" 32-bit operating systems might be able to use the "PAE" crutch mode for paged 36-bit addressing, which lets you make restricted use of the remaining RAM. Flat 64-bit addressing is not available unless you run the thing in "long mode" (AMD's 64-bit mode), which, of course is only possible in a 64-bit OS.

If you want to use Registered RAM, you need to use an Opteron on socket-940 not an Athlon on -939.

Besides, with that many HDDs planned, you don't intend to run them all off the south bridge or a 32-bit 33 MHz PCI bus, and then expect performance from that? Another reason to consider an Opteron workstation board with PCI-X slots ...

 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
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EM64T is only halfway there - the linear addressability has been implemented, but (IIRC) cache-coherent DMA transfers into RAM up there is not possible, unlike on AMD's original implementation. (Or something like that, I'm quoting from memory here.) From those sneaky little details, you can somewhat tell it's been slapped onto an existing CPU design in kind of a "me too" rush job ...

Xeons do have the paged 36-bit mode called PAE (Physical Address Extensions) though. Software programmers never liked that, and now there's little reason to put up with it any longer.
 
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