Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
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Nobody is going nuts over it 
Basically, the information is that the stock design VRMs can't handle more than 83A. However, there's nothing available, besides this one custom test designed in a specific way, that causes the vanilla cards to shut down/reset/etc. I don't find it a flaw, more a limitation. In a completely synthetic and unrealistic scenario
Basically, the information is that the stock design VRMs can't handle more than 83A. However, there's nothing available, besides this one custom test designed in a specific way, that causes the vanilla cards to shut down/reset/etc. I don't find it a flaw, more a limitation. In a completely synthetic and unrealistic scenario +1
If the engineers tasked with creating the reference design were instructed to accommodate the possibility of an application pushing the amps thru the product like this stress test does then they'd have created a more robust reference design at the expense of it being more costly to the consumer. It really is that simple.
But if the consumer doesn't need or require the costlier more robust reference design because they don't run the stress application in question then the more robust reference design would have simply raised the end-user's costs without providing any practical benefits.
Who wants that?
When it comes to design margin trade-offs, I'll take the chip that works fine with my apps provided I stay away from the power-bug software over the chip that will start to die on me in a year if I simply power-cycle (temp-cycle) the chip too many times while running desktop apps and simple games on my laptop.
apoppin
Lifer
Well, it is certainly something to be aware of
Now there are two synthetics benchmarks that evidently exploit the power draw so that it becomes too high, and it appears that the volterra-chip steps in and cuts off the power [as it's supposed to do]
the "moral" of this story - don't run the tests if you have an ATi card
Now there are two synthetics benchmarks that evidently exploit the power draw so that it becomes too high, and it appears that the volterra-chip steps in and cuts off the power [as it's supposed to do]
the "moral" of this story - don't run the tests if you have an ATi card
no...however, a friend of mine had some problems with his gtx260 crashing, overheating the NB, couldnt keep 250 fps lock in cod2, etc, and after i replaced it with ati 4890, his NB temp is 15-20 degrees C lower, can keep 333 fps or more lock in cod2, no more crashes etc...it is really interesting how pulling out nvidia card and putting in an ati card can so much improve the overall efficiency of the system
but i will try to replicate this error once i get the card back from him...looks interesting
apoppin
Lifer
what does that have to do with anything?
you are talking about a single case - that could very well be your buddy's fault; or a single defective GTX 260
- Here is an exploit that will evidently crash EVERY reference ATi 4870/4890 - big difference
Originally posted by: apoppin
what does that have to do with anything?
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
btw....that gtx260 works in my machine on WoW, although it does go into protect mode while running furmark or OCCT...could it be its afterall related to the thread?
apoppin
Lifer
Cry all you wantOriginally posted by: dadach
Originally posted by: apoppin
what does that have to do with anything?
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
You are talking about a single case - that could very well be your buddy's fault; or a single defective GTX 260
- Here is an exploit that will evidently crash EVERY reference ATi 4870/4890 - that is a big difference
ATi fans may see it as "negative"; i see it as informative
BtW, anyone try this test on Nvidia video cards?
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Originally posted by: dadach
Originally posted by: apoppin
what does that have to do with anything?
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
btw....that gtx260 works in my machine on WoW, although it does go into protect mode while running furmark or OCCT...could it be its afterall related to the thread?
So, the only reason for your post here, regarding a GTX260 in a 4870/4890 design flaw thread, was due to who the OP was and the subject of his OP being perceived by yourself as anti-ATI material?
You don't see a problem. That, in itself IS the problem.
Keep it on topic and don't stir the sh*t please.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: apoppin
[well maybe you will; twiimtbp
- mandatory in ALL their games - from now on]
:shocked:
Actually with that TWIIMTBP, it's way of programming makes the ATi GPU's to go under utilized in most scenarios, hence the lower performance compared to nVidia counterparts.
That issue has been posted long time ago in Guru3D. I tested mine and didn't had any issues at all, even after many hours of testing it, never got above 93C in a room temperature of over 88F, in real games, that never will be reached.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
Dadach, this is a warning to stop baiting and stay on topic. The next time it'll be a vacation.Originally posted by: dadach
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
Video Mod BFG10K.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Originally posted by: apoppin
[well maybe you will; twiimtbp
- mandatory in ALL their games - from now on]
:shocked:
Actually with that TWIIMTBP, it's way of programming makes the ATi GPU's to go under utilized in most scenarios, hence the lower performance compared to nVidia counterparts.
That issue has been posted long time ago in Guru3D. I tested mine and didn't had any issues at all, even after many hours of testing it, never got above 93C in a room temperature of over 88F, in real games, that never will be reached.
The way you put it, makes it sound like a conspiracy
-i was being facetious
AFaiK, twiimtbp is a program designed to help the devs utilize Nvidia cards to their fullest
- it is quite a good program really that does not preclude ATi at all - it is up to ATi and the devs to communicate well - or we have hotfixes
Most devs and publishers want their games to run well on ALL HW - that way their game gets good reviews for being stable and they will sell more during the period of their game's newness - when most of their profit is made
i believe B3D also went over similar issues
It seems to me that these "benches" are designed to *exploit* protection features of the GPU - something that does not happen in games [of if they do, they are fixed by a driver update or a patch]
No it's not a full cover block. I leave the stock base plate and fan on to cool the ram and VRMs. Same temps in furmark mind you not in OCCT...I didn't test long enough on OCCT to give load VRM temps.
lay off the personal attacks remember...its the very same thing you went crying to the mods about...i hope moderators will do something about this personal attack...
also, i can remember when ati used to destroy nvidia in 3dmarks, but didnt do as good in games, the argument was that we are not playing 3dmarks...but now, all of the sudden even though we are not playing occts and furmarks, the whole ati batch is flawed?
just LOL
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Dadach, this is a warning to stop baiting and stay on topic. The next time it'll be a vacation.Originally posted by: dadach
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
Video Mod BFG10K.
What do you think this entire thread is? Are you honestly going to tell me you don't believe this thread was made with the very intention of baiting?
Originally posted by: apoppin
Cry all you wantOriginally posted by: dadach
Originally posted by: apoppin
what does that have to do with anything?
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
You are talking about a single case - that could very well be your buddy's fault; or a single defective GTX 260
- Here is an exploit that will evidently crash EVERY reference ATi 4870/4890 - that is a big difference
ATi fans may see it as "negative"; i see it as informative
BtW, anyone try this test on Nvidia video cards?
No, it doesn't. Read the thread.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: apoppin
The way you put it, makes it sound like a conspiracy
-i was being facetious
AFaiK, twiimtbp is a program designed to help the devs utilize Nvidia cards to their fullest
- it is quite a good program really that does not preclude ATi at all - it is up to ATi and the devs to communicate well - or we have hotfixes
Kinda of a conspiracy, do you remember original Far Cry? A game which was optimized for half precision for nVidia cards, Lost Planet? A game with lots of shader dependant texture reads which was created originally for Xbox 360 which in such case, it was supposed to run flawlessly on ATi hardware? Or DeadSpace, which it runs great on ATi, runs much faster on nVidia, Cryostasis which is a pita, original Crysis which took a lot of driver revisions to match (Or outperform) nVidia in some scenarios. Doom 3 which used a look up table which was slow on ATi hardware. ATi isn't holy though, they artificially crippled the Anti Aliasing on Call of Juarez in DX10 so it would run in shader hardware which benefits ATi and affected nVidia.
From my perspective when comparing graphics and stuff, Games under the ATi Get in The Game program tends to have huge amount of shaders and normal resolution textures, which make the game to look realistic, while games under TWIMTBP program tends to look a bit blocky with huge amount of textures and less shaders which gives a look of a CG, I like both looks though.
http://www.hardocp.com/article...wxMCwsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q=
Developer Relations
Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.
On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive.
That's why in many scenarios, the ATi GPU goes underutilized in such games and hence, less overheating. ATi hardware loves long complex shaders with huge amounts of math processing which will run slower on nVidia hardware, while nVidia hardware loves huge amount of short shaders and lots of dependant texture reads which doesn't help at all ATi's Superscalar architecture, before HD architecture, the difference was less noticeable than now.
- Jul 1, 2005
- 5,529
- 0
- 0
It is possible that people are getting crashes because of this and are simply attributing it to overheating. It's not uncommon for people to monitor the temps on their card but they may not monitor how many amps the card is using.
It is also possible that a future game or even an application like Folding@home could run into this flaw.
The link I posted does discuss such possibilities.
It is also possible that a future game or even an application like Folding@home could run into this flaw.
The link I posted does discuss such possibilities.
It's a useful thread discussing a real problem. All posts relating to nvidia, or denial of the problem with no proof, or trying to get rid of the thread should be removed so the real problem can be discussed.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Originally posted by: dguy6789
Originally posted by: BFG10K
Dadach, this is a warning to stop baiting and stay on topic. The next time it'll be a vacation.Originally posted by: dadach
his post was negative about ati...mine was about nvidia...i dont see the problem...and dont you even try any personal attacks, or i will go crying to the mods
Video Mod BFG10K.
What do you think this entire thread is? Are you honestly going to tell me you don't believe this thread was made with the very intention of baiting?
If Wreckage didn't post this, most likely Thilan would have. He always seems to get these tidbits of info from around the web.
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