4850 VS 4870 VS 9800GTX+

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin

i have been working on my own Tech site .. it is up next month
:heart:

Well then you should edit the site to note that a 9800GTX+ is a NVIDIA card.

9800GTX is a FarCry from GT260

The same could be said regarding a 4850 to 4870

You can also buy a Sapphire HD4870 and O/C the crap outta it without voiding ANY warranty
-They encourage it now ,,, right on the box

http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/warranty.php
2 year warranty and no mention of overclocking. good luck.

Nvidia needs to pay some of you a commission ... a highly O/C'd GT260 IS a nice card ..
:laugh:

Is that what you are trying for with your new site?

Trying for what .. wreckage spewed everywhere?


too bad you can't find it on their site; Right on my Sapphire HD4870's box it says:

"Lower Power + Less Heat = Maximum Overclocking Performance"

And a 4850 is not such a far cry from 4870 - in THIS thread .. it is what the OP asked about .. You are the uninvited 260 salesman in this case.


i always strive for accuracy. In the interests of it, AlienBabelTech is not strictly "my site" .. i would be the Editor and a partner. And on upcoming ABT articles all of the 9800GTX series is listed as Nvidia. We correct typos as they are pointed out; otoh you appear to have a continuing inability to read or comprehend the topic's title that has never been corrected by you.

I don't see anybody else complaining about the mention of a GTX260 as another option for the OP in this thread "at least at this point" but yourself, along with the slight pimpage of your website. You know pretty well, that if the thread title contained the following:

"4850 VS GTX260 VS 9800GTX+"

You wouldn't have said jack to anyone suggesting a 4870 as another option. Especially since you own one and have experience with it.

 

[taltamir]

the topic title is irrelevant. Almost every time someone asks for a purchase advice, he is given suggestions he did not think about. very RARELY does one of the OP's original suggestions gets recommended back to him. If he knew what to buy he wouldn't need to ask.
Call us salesman is junk sinking to a new low.

especially ironic since I recommend the 4870 all the time to people who live in countries where the GTX260 is more expensive.

PS.

"Lower Power + Less Heat = Maximum Overclocking Performance"

which care is this referring to?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: geoffry

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
no keys, it doesn't depend on where you look, the HD4870 is faster then the GTX260, easy enough. Just like the 8800gt was faster then the HD3870, although that was a LITTLE more clearcut then the gtx260 vs HD4870 comparison.

Keys, again, tripple a game that is going to use physx, in a way that warmonger uses physx, and will thus be unplayable on a ATI card. Which clearly means that if I want to play the yet to be named game, I have to buy a nvidia videocard or I can't play it. Thats the whole point you're making, THE selling point of a gtx260 over a HD4870. WHAT game(s), please, throw me a bone here. Saying this year 10 or so titles will support it and next year 50 games will means jack shit. Dozens of game allready have physx, software emulated, and those run just fun, and physics don't play such a big role in those games. So name a game where physx is going to play a HUGE role ?

Exactly.

Of this HUGE list of PhysX games, only 2 benefit a great deal from offloading the physics calculations to the GPU or PPU. Atleast thats all I've heard.

If there were games coming out in the NEAR future that improved performace a significant amount (unplayable to playable, not 70 FPS to 90 FPS), NVDA would be shouting from the rooftops this fact in order to give the GTX 260 extra points when the consumer is making a decision.

Right now you have only 2 games, and not even super popular games, that benefit greatly from offloading the calculations to GPU or PPU.

If PhysX is such a big deal Nvidia should be showing off game demos of upcoming products, not tech demos of some falling water. Intel has tech demos on real time raytracing, why not get a quad socket system getting ready for the upcoming realtime raytracing games?

In my mind it is not much different.

PhysX is currently in levels of 3 games- UT3, GRAW2, and Warmonger.

No one is trying to say PhysX is anything but getting started. However, it is getting started, it does make a difference in those games, and it's here now.

People made a HUGE deal of DX10.1 in AC, and the only thing it did was improve AA a barely discernible amount.

PhysX effects make a BIG difference in gameplay and immersion, NVIDIA is bringing it to you free of charge with their products, and the reviews are positive.

As time goes by more and more titles will be released and patched. NVIDIA just bought Ageia 6 months ago, which is yesterday in development terms.

A lot of games are going to be launching in the next year that will utilize PhysX, and the people who own PhysX cards will be enjoying them on a whole different level than people who don't have PhysX enabled cards.

That's pretty much what this argument boils down to for buyers:

Do you want a card that's slightly faster or do you want to see where gaming is heading?

When you buy a GTX260, you miss out on a framerate difference you'd never be able to see without FRAPs on. When you buy a HD4870 you miss out on more realistic envirnoments you interact with.

Same could be said of the 4850 and 9800GTX+.



Looking at the benchmarks, it?s hard not to be impressed by the performance of NVIDIA?s GeForce PhysX solution.

Well, now we know, and it has to be said that NVIDIA has turned PhysX into a great marketing point for their GeForce series of graphics boards in a quicker time than any of us would have thought possible.

We think it's great to see what NVIDIA has been able to accomplish with PhysX and its acceleration on the GPU in the short time since the company acquired Ageia. We are all for games becoming more realistic.

If this is the case, we are totally behind PhysX because right now with such powerful hardware we really all should be looking at higher levels of image quality and levels of immersion... this is exactly what PhysX intends to bring to the gaming world.

It's hard to dislike what Nvidia has done with PhysX. The company has taken an expensive niche product and given it to the masses for free, while at the same time giving game developers a replacement for the apparently defunct Havok FX API.">http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5</a>

So then, I have to admit to like what I tested today. Overall gaming with PhysX adds a much more immersive experience to gaming.



The press has spoken- and they're in favor of this, personally I like to keep my options open.

 

[geoffry]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: geoffry

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
no keys, it doesn't depend on where you look, the HD4870 is faster then the GTX260, easy enough. Just like the 8800gt was faster then the HD3870, although that was a LITTLE more clearcut then the gtx260 vs HD4870 comparison.

Keys, again, tripple a game that is going to use physx, in a way that warmonger uses physx, and will thus be unplayable on a ATI card. Which clearly means that if I want to play the yet to be named game, I have to buy a nvidia videocard or I can't play it. Thats the whole point you're making, THE selling point of a gtx260 over a HD4870. WHAT game(s), please, throw me a bone here. Saying this year 10 or so titles will support it and next year 50 games will means jack shit. Dozens of game allready have physx, software emulated, and those run just fun, and physics don't play such a big role in those games. So name a game where physx is going to play a HUGE role ?

Exactly.

Of this HUGE list of PhysX games, only 2 benefit a great deal from offloading the physics calculations to the GPU or PPU. Atleast thats all I've heard.

If there were games coming out in the NEAR future that improved performace a significant amount (unplayable to playable, not 70 FPS to 90 FPS), NVDA would be shouting from the rooftops this fact in order to give the GTX 260 extra points when the consumer is making a decision.

Right now you have only 2 games, and not even super popular games, that benefit greatly from offloading the calculations to GPU or PPU.

If PhysX is such a big deal Nvidia should be showing off game demos of upcoming products, not tech demos of some falling water. Intel has tech demos on real time raytracing, why not get a quad socket system getting ready for the upcoming realtime raytracing games?

In my mind it is not much different.

PhysX is currently in levels of 3 games- UT3, GRAW2, and Warmonger.

No one is trying to say PhysX is anything but getting started. However, it is getting started, it does make a difference in those games, and it's here now.

People made a HUGE deal of DX10.1 in AC, and the only thing it did was improve AA a barely discernible amount.

PhysX effects make a BIG difference in gameplay and immersion, NVIDIA is bringing it to you free of charge with their products, and the reviews are positive.

As time goes by more and more titles will be released and patched. NVIDIA just bought Ageia 6 months ago, which is yesterday in development terms.

A lot of games are going to be launching in the next year that will utilize PhysX, and the people who own PhysX cards will be enjoying them on a whole different level than people who don't have PhysX enabled cards.

That's pretty much what this argument boils down to for buyers:

Do you want a card that's slightly faster or do you want to see where gaming is heading?

When you buy a GTX260, you miss out on a framerate difference you'd never be able to see without FRAPs on. When you buy a HD4870 you miss out on more realistic envirnoments you interact with.

Same could be said of the 4850 and 9800GTX+.



Looking at the benchmarks, it?s hard not to be impressed by the performance of NVIDIA?s GeForce PhysX solution.

Well, now we know, and it has to be said that NVIDIA has turned PhysX into a great marketing point for their GeForce series of graphics boards in a quicker time than any of us would have thought possible.

We think it's great to see what NVIDIA has been able to accomplish with PhysX and its acceleration on the GPU in the short time since the company acquired Ageia. We are all for games becoming more realistic.

If this is the case, we are totally behind PhysX because right now with such powerful hardware we really all should be looking at higher levels of image quality and levels of immersion... this is exactly what PhysX intends to bring to the gaming world.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://
<b">It's hard to dislike what Nvid...com/articles.x/15261/5]http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15261/5[/L]

So then, I have to admit to like what I tested today. Overall gaming with PhysX adds a much more immersive experience to gaming.



The press has spoken- and they're in favor of this, personally I like to keep my options open.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely am happy with NVDA offering PhysX cards to all its 8 series and higher customers, having a tech company offer such an improvement for free is basically unheard of. I mean, Apple made its customers pay I think $1.25 or $2 to unlock something every Mac shipped with, cheap yes, but give me a break, yet NVDA is truly enhancing its products for free.

That being said, for those who buy cards and don't upgrade often, I agree that the 260 gets some extra points for guaranteed PhysX support.

However, I prefer to upgrade more often and sell my stuff before it becomes pretty much worthless and therefore I don't put as much stock into something that won't have a meaningful impact for a long period of time. Ergo, I go for best bang/buck at that time.

I also agree that DX 10.1 isn't such a killer feature right now either, I don't really care that my card has it.

And your argument of seeing where gaming is headed you could also say ATI DX 10.1 has that....it doesnt add much but it is technically where gaming is headed. Same goes with ATI's tesselation unit, that is going into DX 11.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin

i have been working on my own Tech site .. it is up next month
:heart:

Well then you should edit the site to note that a 9800GTX+ is a NVIDIA card.

9800GTX is a FarCry from GT260

The same could be said regarding a 4850 to 4870

You can also buy a Sapphire HD4870 and O/C the crap outta it without voiding ANY warranty
-They encourage it now ,,, right on the box

http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/warranty.php
2 year warranty and no mention of overclocking. good luck.

Nvidia needs to pay some of you a commission ... a highly O/C'd GT260 IS a nice card ..
:laugh:

Is that what you are trying for with your new site?

Trying for what .. wreckage spewed everywhere?


too bad you can't find it on their site; Right on my Sapphire HD4870's box it says:

"Lower Power + Less Heat = Maximum Overclocking Performance"

And a 4850 is not such a far cry from 4870 - in THIS thread .. it is what the OP asked about .. You are the uninvited 260 salesman in this case.


i always strive for accuracy. In the interests of it, AlienBabelTech is not strictly "my site" .. i would be the Editor and a partner. And on upcoming ABT articles all of the 9800GTX series is listed as Nvidia. We correct typos as they are pointed out; otoh you appear to have a continuing inability to read or comprehend the topic's title that has never been corrected by you.

I don't see anybody else complaining about the mention of a GTX260 as another option for the OP in this thread "at least at this point" but yourself, along with the slight pimpage of your website. You know pretty well, that if the thread title contained the following:

"4850 VS GTX260 VS 9800GTX+"

You wouldn't have said jack to anyone suggesting a 4870 as another option. Especially since you own one and have experience with it.

Who is complaining?

i am just doing what you and Wreckage are fond of doing ..
Pointing something out

do you have a problem with me doing it also?

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: taltamir
mods are allowed to have an opinion, he is not even a VIDEO mod. he mods CPUs. So the only thing his modship means in THIS discussion is that he is a respected memeber of the community. Attacking him is silly, argue against what he posted.
When a mod is acting in their capacity as mods they will edit a line in bold into the offending post with a signature. I see no such edits here.

the GTX260 fares a lot better compared to the 4870 when looking at min frame rates. Regardless, various games favor different makers. So it is hard to say which one dominates.
I would say:
9800 < 9800+ = 4850 < GTX260 = 4870 < GTX260

So look up the prices of those in your country and choose.

9800+ is close to 4850 and gtx 260 is close to 4870, but crank up the AA and 4850 blows away 9800+, while 4870 is considered by MOST sites to be ~ 5-10% faster than gtx 260.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin

i have been working on my own Tech site .. it is up next month
:heart:

Well then you should edit the site to note that a 9800GTX+ is a NVIDIA card.

9800GTX is a FarCry from GT260

The same could be said regarding a 4850 to 4870

You can also buy a Sapphire HD4870 and O/C the crap outta it without voiding ANY warranty
-They encourage it now ,,, right on the box

http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/warranty.php
2 year warranty and no mention of overclocking. good luck.

Nvidia needs to pay some of you a commission ... a highly O/C'd GT260 IS a nice card ..
:laugh:

Is that what you are trying for with your new site?

Trying for what .. wreckage spewed everywhere?


too bad you can't find it on their site; Right on my Sapphire HD4870's box it says:

"Lower Power + Less Heat = Maximum Overclocking Performance"

And a 4850 is not such a far cry from 4870 - in THIS thread .. it is what the OP asked about .. You are the uninvited 260 salesman in this case.


i always strive for accuracy. In the interests of it, AlienBabelTech is not strictly "my site" .. i would be the Editor and a partner. And on upcoming ABT articles all of the 9800GTX series is listed as Nvidia. We correct typos as they are pointed out; otoh you appear to have a continuing inability to read or comprehend the topic's title that has never been corrected by you.

I don't see anybody else complaining about the mention of a GTX260 as another option for the OP in this thread "at least at this point" but yourself, along with the slight pimpage of your website. You know pretty well, that if the thread title contained the following:

"4850 VS GTX260 VS 9800GTX+"

You wouldn't have said jack to anyone suggesting a 4870 as another option. Especially since you own one and have experience with it.

Who is complaining?

i am just doing what you and Wreckage are fond of doing ..
Pointing something out

do you have a problem with me doing it also?

Absolutely wonderful. Now that you have pointed out what you needed to, can we get on with the thread without you telling people that their input is uninvited?
And by the way, your halo is rusting.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin


i always strive for accuracy. In the interests of it, AlienBabelTech is not strictly "my site" .. i would be the Editor and a partner. And on upcoming ABT articles all of the 9800GTX series is listed as Nvidia. We correct typos as they are pointed out; otoh you appear to have a continuing inability to read or comprehend the topic's title that has never been corrected by you.

So another inquirer site eh?

pass.

there is nothing that anybody on this site could do to make another inq-type site. fuad has the idiot market cornered.

wreckage, your problem isn't that you have a preference (most people on this site do), but that you can't coexist peacefully with the other team. apoppin and keys, though both are clearly biased, also worked very well together on a great review once upon a time. they have both spent a LOT of time personally benchmarking video cards. you're not qualified to chime in on one of their discussions.

 

[taltamir]

there is already the inquired AND fudzilla... so thats two sites. And i have seen a third one that is starting to go dagerously close to those... dont remember its name though.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: apoppin


Who is complaining?

you

i am just doing what you and Wreckage are fond of doing ..

Proving you wrong?

Pointing something out

That you are wrong?

do you have a problem with me doing it also?

Not at all, proving yourself wrong is fine by me.

 

[Keysplayr]

Cmon guys, thats enough. Really. No need for this stuff after all.
Apoppin, Wreckage...... kiss and make up please???

To the OP, if we haven't scared you off by now, what do you think? ::::crickets::::

 

[ViRGE]

Cool your jets guys, this isn't the place to discuss fanboyism, compare tech sites, etc. The next person that posts something about a topic other than the OP's question will be the one to face the consequences.

-ViRGE

 

[Tempered81]

why can't we just say Nvidia = Ati as far as GTX260 vs. 4870 price/perf/value/oc ability/etc is concerned. Comparing the camps is more relevant when disucussing lower & higher end. 4870 & 260 both weight in pretty equal and are good buys at $220-$250 USD.

Take 4850 vs. G92 or R700 vs. GTX280 to the next level with crude remarks & such.

edit: oops hope i didn't face the consequences for that. My recommendation to the op is 4870.

 

[taltamir]

to the OP. what country do you live in?

 

[Zap]

For the OP, what's the budget and does a dual slot rear-exhaust cooler matter to you?

Performance-wise, the 4870 is best. However, it costs considerably more than the other two cards. That's like asking "what's the fastest, a Civic SI, Corolla XRS or Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution?" The Evo's the fastest, hands down, but it is in a totally different price bracket.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Zap
For the OP, what's the budget and does a dual slot rear-exhaust cooler matter to you?

Performance-wise, the 4870 is best. However, it costs considerably more than the other two cards. That's like asking "what's the fastest, a Civic SI, Corolla XRS or Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution?" The Evo's the fastest, hands down, but it is in a totally different price bracket.

the answer is obviously an F-22 fighter!

*finger hovers over the ban button, getting increasingly tired*

Don't be a smart-alec, when I say no OT posting I mean it. Otherwise my finger will fall.:Q

-ViRGE

 

[ajaidevsingh]

For the OP,

People who are recommending a GTX260 did so on biases of your 4870 option "Prices seem to be similar" but in countries like India where ATi is cheaper than Nvidia i would go with ATi...

To take a broad picture 4870 > 260 "4870 is better" and 4850 > 9800+ "4850 is better" but the difference in speed can be made up by real time prices. If 260 is cheaper than the 4870 go for the 260 and if 9800+ is cheaper that the 4850 go for the 9800+ and vice-verse.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: taltamir
mods are allowed to have an opinion, he is not even a VIDEO mod. he mods CPUs. So the only thing his modship means in THIS discussion is that he is a respected memeber of the community. Attacking him is silly, argue against what he posted.
When a mod is acting in their capacity as mods they will edit a line in bold into the offending post with a signature. I see no such edits here.

the GTX260 fares a lot better compared to the 4870 when looking at min frame rates. Regardless, various games favor different makers. So it is hard to say which one dominates.
I would say:
9800 < 9800+ = 4850 < GTX260 = 4870 < GTX260

So look up the prices of those in your country and choose.

9800+ is close to 4850 and gtx 260 is close to 4870, but crank up the AA and 4850 blows away 9800+, while 4870 is considered by MOST sites to be ~ 5-10% faster than gtx 260.

Normally I'd consider this and the better 8XAA performance reason enough to buy the 4870, even though at 4XAA no one could tell the difference between the two.

Getting the free PhysyX tips the choice the other way for me though, because it adds more realism to the games than anything else I've seen since the switch to "3D".

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Getting the free PhysyX tips the choice the other way for me though, because it adds more realism to the games than anything else I've seen since the switch to "3D".

HL2 did physics fairly well and didn't need a PPU/GPU to do it. I'm not sure how much it's changed but I remember when GRAW(2) came out and they were touting the physx capabilities, all I saw was some stuff being blown to bits and then disappearing like 2 seconds later. Where's the realism in that? The blown up bits should stay there and hinder/help the player in the level.

I'm not sure how much it's changed from what I just described (Is it a lot different in regular games now not techdemos?) but if it's still the same I'd rather not have it as it just degrades performance anyway (except for dedicated techdemos) due to all the extra bits needing to be rendered.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

ATi will also offer Havoc sooner or later its not logical to get Physx on the impact of game play FPS!!!

BTW Most of the games that support Phys do so in a as lite a quantity as possible so that the GPU can handle it..

How many Physx PPu games were released ??

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
the topic title is irrelevant. Almost every time someone asks for a purchase advice, he is given suggestions he did not think about. very RARELY does one of the OP's original suggestions gets recommended back to him. If he knew what to buy he wouldn't need to ask.
Call us salesman is junk sinking to a new low.

especially ironic since I recommend the 4870 all the time to people who live in countries where the GTX260 is more expensive.

PS.

"Lower Power + Less Heat = Maximum Overclocking Performance"

which care is this referring to?

This is referring to what is printed on my Sapphire HD4870's box.
--clearly that allows for O/C'ing; heck it encourages it

Normally I'd consider this and the better 8XAA performance reason enough to buy the 4870, even though at 4XAA no one could tell the difference between the two.

Getting the free PhysyX tips the choice the other way for me though, because it adds more realism to the games than anything else I've seen since the switch to "3D".

"Free" PhysX is not a deal tipper for me. Hell, we don't even know how "free" it is or if it kills FPS. We also still don't see much support for it among the devs and we know intel and AMD will work together against Nvidia. i guess i could toss in an old Aegia PCI card if i want to check it out that badly.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: apoppin
we know intel and AMD will work together against Nvidia.

Sadly this is a steaming pile of BS. Havok right now is only being made to support CPU physics.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh

How many Physx PPu games were released ??

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: apoppin
we know intel and AMD will work together against Nvidia.

Sadly this is a steaming pile of BS. Havok right now is only being made to support CPU physics.

And intel and AMD *both* feel the CPU is the place to implement Physics
- for NOW

PhysX is no "done deal" with gaming devs

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html

it is not a very impressive list - except perhaps to you

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: apoppin


And intel and AMD *both* feel the CPU is the place to implement Physics
- for NOW

Good for them as all of us either have an Intel or AMD CPU. However NOTHING has shown up for it yet since Intel bought Havok.

PhysX is no "done deal" with gaming devs

With many of them it is as many games support it and their are something like 60 or more on the way. As pointed out AMD only has 18% of the graphics market so this is yet another reason to support the dominant player in gaming.

it is not a very impressive list - except perhaps to you

Please post a list of physics supported by your card....

:laugh: