4770K or 4930K for 2 high end GPU's.

[Jacky60]

Building new rig, waiting on what the 9970 brings in performance terms before pulling the trigger. I will buy two 9970's OR two 780's OR two 7990's depending on price/performance as I'm used to quadfire so have no issues with it I can't deal with. I want to know if a 4770k will bottleneck them and whether I should go 4930K. I'll be shooting for maximum overclock on whichever CPU I buy cooled probably with a corsair H100i.
I game at 1920/1200 but will be stepping up to single monitor 1440 or possibly 1080 Eyefinity.
Which should I get (I only use PC for gaming) and while money won't be a problem I won't spend it just for the sake of it or bragging rights but will do for tangible performance gains.

 

[blackened23]

For 2 way SLI, a 4770k is fine. For 3 way and 4 way SLI, 4930k would be better.

 

[Jacky60]

Where is the advantage from for 3/4 way SLI/xfire? I understand more cores feeding cards should be better and Arma 3 (the only game I'm playing at the moment and in foreseeable future) likes fast CPU's and newer architectures. Is the advantage in the PCI express lanes or just pumping out more pixels. I may well to 3 way depending on performance and budget.

 

[blackened23]

Because you can only do 3 way and 4 way on mainstream Z87 boards if they have the PLX chip and those boards are extremely expensive. I don't think they even exist for Z87 yet. Furthermore, you get more CPU lanes by default on X79 and thus it is always preferable for 3 way and 4 way SLI - once you're using high surround resolutions with 4 way SLI *every* game will become CPU limited. Ignore benchmarks on the web. Things are different with surround and 4 way SLi. CPU speed absolutely matters here if you're using 4 way, and it will thrash the Z87 due to more PCI express lanes and better CPU performance.

This is also aside from the fact you can't do 4 way SLI on a Z87 board without the PLX chip. Those boards cost a TON of money. You're looking at 450$ for a motherboard, and if you're in that territory you may as well get X79 anyway. If you get a "plain" z87 board 3 way SLI will be x8/x4/x4. Obviously at x4 speeds you just wasted your money on 3 way SLI. The fix is PLX and those boards are stupidly expensive. Z87 = 16 PCI Express lanes. X79 = 40. If you're spending 3000$ on GPUs and run them at x4 speeds, well i'm sure you know what's up with that.

But the main point here is, surround with 4 way SLI = CPU limited in absolutely every game. People don't understand this - callsignvega posted some benchmarks to substantiate this. If you're using 2 way SLI, 4770k is fine. 3 way or 4 way in surround? 4930k all the way. It will destroy the 4770k in surround 4 way sli - in that scenario (surround, 3/4 way SLI) every game becomes CPU limited. Every single one.

 

[crashtech]

^What blackened23 said.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You can do 3 way without PLX, that's only a Nvidia requirement.


Even 8x8x4x on 1150 is fine performance wise it's x16x16x8 PCIe 2.0 from a bandwidth standpoint.
Two dual GPU cards would operate at x8x8 on 1150.


Personally I think x6 for gaming is a waste of money, it's always the same story, this one game benefits from it.


Also AMD frame pacing doesn't work with more than 2 cards on more than one screen or on DX9.

 

[Jacky60]

Thanks for the data rich heads up. It's first build in 3 years and probably for the next 2/3 so I'm strongly edging towards 4930k. Also future better threaded games due to next gen consoles will I'm sure benefit from more cores. I've never had a card with too much memory or a CPU with too many cores and at the least I'm expecting 780 SLI Classified GPU performance as a minimum for first GPU's so 3 SLI is very possible. I want a big leap in performance that I notice. Pretty sure the Eyefinity frame pacing stuff will be out before I buy but it will influence decision.

 

[crashtech]

As long as you know that a 4770K is very close to the 4930K in most games, and that there are no more new CPUs planned for the current LGA2011 platform. Haswell-E will use a new socket. Also, there is no dispute that Haswell has the IPC advantage, and this will give the 4770K the advantage in everything except the heaviest CPU loads.

Anand said, in his review of the 4960X: "Overall you'll get great gaming performance out of the 4960X, but even with two Titans at its disposal you won't see substantially better frame rates than a 4770K in most cases."

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Thanks for the data rich heads up. It's first build in 3 years and probably for the next 2/3 so I'm strongly edging towards 4930k. Also future better threaded games due to next gen consoles will I'm sure benefit from more cores. I've never had a card with too much memory or a CPU with too many cores and at the least I'm expecting 780 SLI Classified GPU performance as a minimum for first GPU's so 3 SLI is very possible. I want a big leap in performance that I notice. Pretty sure the Eyefinity frame pacing stuff will be out before I buy but it will influence decision.

Only problem with 2011 is that it is last gen tech wise, it's about 300MHz slower than Haswell and it doesn't have the additional instructions that Haswell has which could likewise benefit the newer processors down the road.

Both platforms compromise on something.

 

[blackened23]

It will take years for anything like TSX to gain traction. As well, on average, aside from a few lucky folks - IVB (even E) clocks higher than Haswell. On average. Wait, 4770k doesn't even support TSX, so scratch that one. As far as i'm aware IVB-E and Haswell K SKUs share all the same instructions - to get TSX you need a non K SKU.

Already in 2 way SLI, gaming benchmarks in AT's review show with 2 way Titan SLI the 4960X besting the 4770k every time and in every game. This was with a single screen (!) resolution. In other configurations, especially with surround, everything becomes CPU limited. And everything will favor the IVB-E. 3 way and 4 way? The gap widens by a TON. This is not helped by the fact that non PLX motherboards have to run GPU3 at pathetic x4 speeds. That is not the case with X79.

The only argument for the 4770k is if you're low on budget and want 2 way SLI (competetive) but once you're doing surround and 3 way / 4 way SLi the IVB-E will best it every time. Again, every game becomes CPU limited. Even 2 way benchmarks shows IVB-E besting the 4770k, every time and in every game. Callsignvega posted some interesting info in regards to this and when he runs surround and in terms of CPU utilization, IVB-E and SB-E makes sense for 4 way and surround. There is just no sense in getting a 4770k for 3 / 4 way. Unless you don't have money. THEN it might make sense. But if you have the funds - IVB-E for 3/4 way.

Personally? I'm not into it. I used to like SLI and all of that stuff but i've come to appreciate quietness and small form factors more lately. My preference would be a 4770k and a single GPU such as a 780. That's me though - if I were the OP and still into heavy multi GPU configurations, I would definitely opt for IVB-E. The cost, strangely enough, would be similar as well because PLX motherboards are outrageous, and 4 way SLI is not doable without it on Z87. By the time you calculate those costs, the price difference between 4930K and 4770K is pretty close. I don't think i'd waste 500$ on a Z87 PLX mobo just to get worse performance in surround...

 

[BallaTheFeared]

TSX has to do with Data Centers, so it's probably not the instruction(s) I was referencing.

What review did you read?

Ignore the i7-4770k, look at the $230 i5. Why would you suggest anyone spend $800 more for that?

i5-4670k is running 3.4GHz base so between 3.6GHz and 3.8GHz, 4960X is 3.6GHz base so between 3.8 and 4GHz. So even with the clock speed advantage...


2011 isn't a gaming socket, and even when you're looking at MGPU it still doesn't make sense from a price/performance standpoint. If you're doing workstation stuff than the workstation socket of course makes a whole lot more sense, but gaming isn't workstation related.

 

[Nec_V20]

Where is the advantage from for 3/4 way SLI/xfire? I understand more cores feeding cards should be better and Arma 3 (the only game I'm playing at the moment and in foreseeable future) likes fast CPU's and newer architectures. Is the advantage in the PCI express lanes or just pumping out more pixels. I may well to 3 way depending on performance and budget.

If you are going three way then you should go for the 2011 platform because it does have the extra PCIe 3.0 lanes with 32 of them dedicated to the GPU.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Only problem with the lane argument is that cards today aren't fast enough to saturate them, so the benefit of having 16x8x8x vs 8x8x4 or PLX on 1055 is almost impossible to see.

 

[RussianSensation]

*Eyefinity doesn't currently include a fix for CF frame pacing.

Right now 2011 offers almost no advantages over 4770K unless you are going with a 4 GPU CF setup / 3-way SLI setup or 2 GPUs + PCIe SSDs or need plenty of DIMMs. Even if the 3rd GPU on Z87 operates at PCIe 3.0 x4, that's equivalent to PCIe 2.0 x8 and that's not a bottleneck by more than 3-4% right now. 4770K more than makes up for it with its IPC advantage, 6 native SATAIII ports, Thunderbolt 2.0 mobos, lower power consumption.

With X79, you end up with a platform that uses more power, has an outdated feature set and is slower for the majority of games and in the process you pay $550 for the 4930 vs. $280-$330 for the 4770K, plus the mobos cost more too. Where 4xxx series makes sense is for strategy games that rely heavily on large amounts of cache.

The major downside to Haswell is that it's a hot pig which means you are playing Russian roulette to see if yours is a garbage sample that hits 4.2-4.3ghz and craps out or you get a good one that can hit 4.7-4.8ghz. Most probably end up in the 4.4-4.6ghz range.

4820 & 4930 review:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...i7-4930k-i7-4820k-ivy-bridge-e-review-18.html

I think a case can be made for both platforms depending on the number of GPUs being used, and from what brand. At the same time this idea of selling "high-end" 6-core CPUs on an outdated platform is the polar opposite of how S1366 started for Intel. The most premium platform should launch first and have the most features. Right now, Intel's flagship platform launches way behind, has the most outdated feature set and uses an outdated CPU architecture. If AMD gave some competition to Intel, Intel would never be able to get away with this type of staggered strategy. By the time Haswell E launches, Skylake is not far off and the cycle repeats again.....

 

[Grooveriding]

Buy into the enthusiast platform at release to make it worthwhile. I would sit on what you have if you can mange until Haswell-E and get that. Alternately get a cheap interim setup of an x87 board with a 4670k and use that untill HW-E, then sell it and get HW-E.

Look at the games you play as well and see if any give better performance from more cores. Some big titles do. BF performs better with more, I know Arma 3 supposedly does as well and you play that game, but I've never seen any benches of Arma 3 showing it to actually do so. FWIW on my system Arma 3 still runs like a dog at times with the system below.

Or just get 4930K/X79 because you can. HW-E is my next upgrade but I'm not too optimistic on how it will overclock looking at Haswell. I put a 4670K in my wife's system and that thing is a roaster overclocked to 4.6, even with a half-decent cooler on it. It runs hotter than my 3930K did with an NH-D14 on it. A high TDP 8 core HW-E could very well be a furnace.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

HW-E probably won't have that issue if IVY-E is any indication, it will be soldered to the ISA removing the chance that gap misalignment will cause a cpu that uses vastly less power to run hotter.

As Grooveriding says, if you have the cash to waste why not? It's likely to be faster in some titles just like 1150 will be in others. It's not a bad platform for performance, it's just not a good platform when it comes to price/performance. If that doesn't matter, it's not like you'll lose out much to 1150, you just aren't gaining much either.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Buy into the enthusiast platform at release to make it worthwhile. I would sit on what you have if you can mange until Haswell-E and get that. Alternately get a cheap interim setup of an x87 board with a 4670k and use that untill HW-E, then sell it and get HW-E.

Agree with this.
I just got a 4770K and a decent Z87 board and might use two cards. When i saw the reviews for 4960X i was pretty disappointed with the smallish improvements and lack of inovation on the motherboard side. Will wait for Haswell-E for sure.

 

[tweakboy]

Nice post blackend23,, Very true. The 2 extra cores can help in DAW , not single card gaming... thx gl

 

[Jacky60]

I'm tending towards the 4770K but can't really decide. I really want 6 cores but can't make a sensible decision. I'll wait until the 9970 releases or whatever its called then get the 4770K if going for two GPU's or 4930K if going to use 3 or more GPU's in the foreseeable future. I would go for the 4670K but I think more future games will be using more than 4 threads than many people assume.

 

[Sohaltang]

How about the dual GPU cards like the 7990? Can you run 2 of these on a non plx MB without losing speed?

 

[tweakboy]

How about you spend less on Titan, 2 of them, and buy a freakin dual socket motherboard server, and put 2 12 cores , thats 24 cores and 48 threads. and 2 titans.

I think there wil be no bottle neck here lol,

 

[BallaTheFeared]

 

[crashtech]

^ There's a lot of CPUs missing out of that test. For all we know, a 4770K would be on top there, or your 4670K for that matter, who knows?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The point was x6 doesn't matter in a title the OP is concerned about.

 

[crashtech]

OIC