47% of households will pay no federal taxes

Jul 10, 2007
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so half of us are paying for the other half.
i don't like this progressive tax bs one bit...

Text

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.

In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

The issue doesn't get a lot of attention even as lawmakers debate how to pay for policy initiatives like health reform, whether to extend the Bush tax cuts and how to reduce the deficit.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax liability or negative liability as do 9% of households with incomes between $75,000 and $100,000.

Of course, income taxes don't tell the whole story. Workers are also subject to payroll taxes, which support Social Security and Medicare.

When considering federal income taxes in combination with payroll taxes, the percent of households with a net liability of zero or less is estimated to be 24% this year, according to the Tax Policy Center's estimates.

A key reason why there is a zero-liability group at all is because the U.S. tax system is progressive. Those who bring in more money pay more than those lower down the income scale to support government functions such as national defense and social safety nets like Medicaid for those in need. That progressivity can be dialed up or down.

"Some think it's too progressive. Some don't think it's progressive enough," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center.

President Obama falls into the latter camp. He has proposed increasing the income tax burden on families making more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000, while offering new measures to reduce the tax bite for most Americans making less.

One of Obama's proposals is to extend the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts for everyone except high-income tax filers, which was the group that derived the most benefit from those cuts.

As a result, under Obama's budget, he would keep the ranks of the non-payers higher than they would otherwise be.
Why the tax-free matter

The question of who pays and who doesn't is not a trivial matter. But Washington policymakers are not dealing with it in an explicit way.

And that's a problem, given the country's fiscal outlook.

If asked to vote up or down on whether they are comfortable with such a large group of voters contributing no federal income tax or payroll tax revenue, the majority may well decide it is appropriate given the means of the households involved. Or they may decide that it's not.

Either way, that decision should inform the debate about the many costly policies and deficit-reduction strategies that lawmakers will be grappling with for years to come.

"As the number [of nonpayers] becomes larger, we have to question whether we'll make good decisions about how to allocate resources," economist George Zodrow, a professor at Rice University. "Most people don't understand how skewed the tax distribution is."

Experts say that to pay for all the things on the country's growing tab, the money can't just come from a shrunken pool of taxpayers.

"Over the long run, you'll have to have a broader base," Zodrow said. To top of page
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
lots of peoples incomes are down 40% or more. What do you think would happen during an economic downturn?
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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91

Perhaps this just means that your average American is becoming poorer or at least that the lower classes are becoming poorer? Could it mean that the upper classes are enjoying increased prosperity at the expense of the lower classes?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
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Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
lots of peoples incomes are down 40% or more. What do you think would happen during an economic downturn?

Maybe government should *gasp* cut spending. Then again, congress voted today to increase congressional spending.

In any event, do you not think that the incomes of the 'rich' are also down?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
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Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Perhaps this just means that your average American is becoming poorer or at least that the lower classes are becoming poorer? Could it mean that the upper classes are enjoying increased prosperity at the expense of the lower classes?

Bullshit. The USA has the richest lower class in the world.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Patranus
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Perhaps this just means that your average American is becoming poorer or at least that the lower classes are becoming poorer? Could it mean that the upper classes are enjoying increased prosperity at the expense of the lower classes?

Bullshit. The USA has the richest lower class in the world.

QFMFT
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Hell I wouldn't mind making so much income where I had to pay 50% of it in taxes, I'm sure that goes for most people struggling to make ends meet.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Patranus
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Perhaps this just means that your average American is becoming poorer or at least that the lower classes are becoming poorer? Could it mean that the upper classes are enjoying increased prosperity at the expense of the lower classes?

Bullshit. The USA has the richest lower class in the world.

I'd like to see you back that up because there isn't a shred of truth to that statement.

I'll bet you five hundred thousand pounds right now if you want to and i'll prove you wrong so fucking fast your head will spin all the way around.

Most of the first world nations take better care of their most poor than the US does. This is fucking common knowledge to anyone with a brain, something you do not seem to have at all.

Perhaps your cerebral cortex just isn't done yet?
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
And this is why a bunch of people have problems with government run healthcare. Half the people are going to get it and not pay a fucking dime toward it. You should have to pay SOMETHING so at least you respect where its coming from.
 
Jul 10, 2007
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Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Patranus
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Perhaps this just means that your average American is becoming poorer or at least that the lower classes are becoming poorer? Could it mean that the upper classes are enjoying increased prosperity at the expense of the lower classes?

Bullshit. The USA has the richest lower class in the world.

I'd like to see you back that up because there isn't a shred of truth to that statement.

I'll bet you five hundred thousand pounds right now if you want to and i'll prove you wrong so fucking fast your head will spin all the way around.

Most of the first world nations take better care of their most poor than the US does. This is fucking common knowledge to anyone with a brain, something you do not seem to have at all.

Perhaps your cerebral cortex just isn't done yet?

ok prove it.
i'll bet you 5 thousand posts.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
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Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
You guys complaining that you're paying all the taxes are free to make less money so you don't have too.

And people that complain about the cost of insurance are free to stop using healthcare services so they don't have to pay so much.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Kinda makes those tea party guys look like f'ing morons, now doesn't it? I wonder how many of them pay $0 in taxes? Probably the same percentage of angry town hall guys who are on Medicare! :laugh:
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,341
1,853
126
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

The tax situation is fvcked up here .... The middle class pays, the rich find loopholes and get away with not paying, and the poor simply don't have to pay it.. Fvck that ... I'd almost rather see a flat tax that fvcks everyone over the same then the loophole laden overcomplicated system that doesn't even tax 1/2 of the population....
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
2
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Kinda makes those tea party guys look like f'ing morons, now doesn't it? I wonder how many of them pay $0 in taxes? Probably the same percentage of angry town hall guys who are on Medicare! :laugh:

:laugh:
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,913
3,892
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Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

We're just above that range. We adopted a few years ago and had two years of no tax liability due to the massive tax credits. I'm sure that's not how those people do it though. Would be nice to know.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

We're just above that range. We adopted a few years ago and had two years of no tax liability due to the massive tax credits. I'm sure that's not how those people do it though. Would be nice to know.

A lot of people get their tax advice from ACORN.

EDIT: Excuse me, a lot of people USED to get their tax advice from ACORN.

hehehe.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: ImAnIdiot
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

We're just above that range. We adopted a few years ago and had two years of no tax liability due to the massive tax credits. I'm sure that's not how those people do it though. Would be nice to know.

A lot of people get their tax advice from ACORN.
:roll:

 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Patranus
Bullshit. The USA has the richest lower class in the world.
Richest by what standard? Can you back this claim with any statistics?

I'd like to see us work our way to the top of the Human Development Index, where we currently rank at 15.

 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,341
1,853
126
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

We're just above that range. We adopted a few years ago and had two years of no tax liability due to the massive tax credits. I'm sure that's not how those people do it though. Would be nice to know.

I could see people who adopt being a small percentage, as well as foster parents, etc .... but the fact of the matter is that sadly, there aren't that many foster parents or people who adopt.

I guess this year was the 8,000 tax credit for buying a new house .... so maybe that would do it for a decent number of folks too ...

Anyhow .... congrats on your adoption! i know, I'm a few years late ... :)
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Patranus
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
lots of peoples incomes are down 40% or more. What do you think would happen during an economic downturn?

Maybe government should *gasp* cut spending. Then again, congress voted today to increase congressional spending.

Coming up with this kind of advice NOW is comical at best. Of course spending wasn't a problem until around the beginning of this year... :roll:
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Good. The tax system needs to be more progressive. The gap between the wealthy and poor hasn't been this high since the 20's. Bush really did a number on the federal debt by allowing it to grow without a way to reasonably pay some of it off in the long-run. Taxing the top 20% sounds about right. Though for now it'll be the top 5%.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax"
How the hell do they manage that??????
I fit within that range and have a house with a mortgage to write off, and I pay a lot of federal income tax ....

We're just above that range. We adopted a few years ago and had two years of no tax liability due to the massive tax credits. I'm sure that's not how those people do it though. Would be nice to know.

A lot of people get their tax advice from ACORN.

EDIT: Excuse me, a lot of people USED to get their tax advice from ACORN.

hehehe.

The rich don't need ACORN giving them tax avoidance advice from amateurs. They have a multi-billion dollar industry to evade many billions in taxes. Right-wing scum are ok with it.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Topic: 47% of households will pay no federal taxes

That would be a lie.

Every one pays Federal gas tax.

Everyone pays Federal excise taxes.

Everyone pays social security and medicare taxes.

As a matter of fact, low and moderate income persons pay a much higher percentage of their income on these taxes.

And since 20-25% of this country has zero or negative net worth the entire premise of this thread is simply Fail.