47 house dems want to extend capital gains cuts

[spidey07]

Good. The last thing you need to do is raise capital gains tax. The only thing that would do is hurt capital investment and dividend investment in an ailing economy. These 47 get it.

Long Term capital gains is 15% for most everybody and 10% for the bottom two income brackets thanks to the Bush tax cuts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100928/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tax_cuts

WASHINGTON – A group of 47 House Democrats have broken ranks with President Barack Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress in calling for expiring tax cuts to be extended for investment income.

The Democrats, led by Rep. John Adler, D-N.J., have sent a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying they strongly support extending the current tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

Tax cuts enacted in 2003 set the top tax rate on capital gains and dividends at 15 percent. Those tax cuts expire at the end of the year, and Obama wants to increase top tax rate on capital gains and dividends to 20 percent for individuals making more than $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000.

 

[Sinsear]

Gee, you think they're worried about their jobs come november?

 

[Blackjack200]

Gee, you think they're worried about their jobs come november?

They should probably worry more abou the ninety five odd percent of voters that don't make a quarter million dollars a year.

 

[Craig234]

And this is why 'Democratic majority' doesn't mean 'Democratic majority', but rather 'Corporatist Republicans plus corporatist Democrats majority'. As I've said, we need more *progressive* Democrats to combat this.

 

[brencat]

The only legitimate argument for not raising the capital gains tax substantially is that companies will reduce dividend payouts (the reverse of what happened after 2002 legislation) thereby hurting savers and pensioners even more than Greenspansan & Bernankesan already have with ridiculously cheap money for so long.

At the same time, we have the top 400 families in this country with an average annual income of $182+ million getting 82% of their earnings from investments paying only a 16.7% effective tax rate.

Meanwhile, here we are wasting our time arguing over upper middle class people in the NY metro area making $250-$275k and why they need to see their top marginal rate rise from 35% to 39.6%. And nobody gives a sh*t that the super rich will never pay anywhere close to this because nobody wants to pick a fight.

Joke.

 

[Craig234]

The only legitimate argument for not raising the capital gains tax substantially is that companies will reduce dividend payouts (the reverse of what happened after 2002 legislation) thereby hurting savers and pensioners even more than Greenspansan & Bernankesan already have with ridiculously cheap money for so long.

At the same time, we have the top 400 families in this country with an average annual income of $182+ million getting 82% of their earnings from investments paying only a 16.7% effective tax rate.

Meanwhile, here we are wasting our time arguing over upper middle class people in the NY metro area making $250-$275k and why they need to see their top marginal rate rise from 35% to 39.6%. And nobody gives a sh*t that the super rich will never pay anywhere close to this because nobody wants to pick a fight.

Joke.

Yup. What percent of voters do you think are even aware of the passive income tax rate versus earned income tax rate issue?

 

[cubby1223]

And this is why 'Democratic majority' doesn't mean 'Democratic majority', but rather 'Corporatist Republicans plus corporatist Democrats majority'. As I've said, we need more *progressive* Democrats to combat this.

We need Hugo Chavez up here to even out the score!

You cannot just dismiss all opposing points of view as lies and propaganda. You are not the all-knowing wonderboy of the universe.

 

[brencat]

Yup. What percent of voters do you think are even aware of the passive income tax rate versus earned income tax rate issue?

Is that the issue? Or is the bigger issue Dems like Shumer who continue to block repeal of the carried interest provision or refusing to address the unfairness of the idle rich not paying even close to the effective tax rate many of the $250 thousandairs pay, while paying populist lip service to the growing wealth disparity among the top 5% and everyone else?

Hypocrites...because of the limousine liberals who brought them to power that will have none of those tax increases imposed on them.

 

[Xcobra]

The only legitimate argument for not raising the capital gains tax substantially is that companies will reduce dividend payouts (the reverse of what happened after 2002 legislation) thereby hurting savers and pensioners even more than Greenspansan & Bernankesan already have with ridiculously cheap money for so long.

At the same time, we have the top 400 families in this country with an average annual income of $182+ million getting 82% of their earnings from investments paying only a 16.7% effective tax rate.

Meanwhile, here we are wasting our time arguing over upper middle class people in the NY metro area making $250-$275k and why they need to see their top marginal rate rise from 35% to 39.6%. And nobody gives a sh*t that the super rich will never pay anywhere close to this because nobody wants to pick a fight.

Joke.

Exactly my sentiment.

 

[Craig234]

Is that the issue? Or is the bigger issue Dems like Shumer who continue to block repeal of the carried interest provision or refusing to address the unfairness of the idle rich not paying even close to the effective tax rate many of the $250 thousandairs pay, while paying populist lip service to the growing wealth disparity among the top 5% and everyone else?

Hypocrites...because of the limousine liberals who brought them to power that will have none of those tax increases imposed on them.

Those aren't two different things, an ignorant public and the tax policies they don't understand.

But as you throw around the right-wing propaganda phrase 'limousine liberal', recognize that the Republicans are more in favor of concentrated wealth, and that the group who opposes it, the progressives, is a wing of the Democratic Party. And you make the common right-wing error of thinking it's about their own wealth. It's not.

Rich progressive politicians support increasing their own taxes all the time, as do some rich private people like Warren Buffet.

 

[Engineer]

The only legitimate argument for not raising the capital gains tax substantially is that companies will reduce dividend payouts (the reverse of what happened after 2002 legislation) thereby hurting savers and pensioners even more than Greenspansan & Bernankesan already have with ridiculously cheap money for so long.

At the same time, we have the top 400 families in this country with an average annual income of $182+ million getting 82% of their earnings from investments paying only a 16.7% effective tax rate.

Meanwhile, here we are wasting our time arguing over upper middle class people in the NY metro area making $250-$275k and why they need to see their top marginal rate rise from 35% to 39.6%. And nobody gives a sh*t that the super rich will never pay anywhere close to this because nobody wants to pick a fight.

Joke.

This.

 

[BoberFett]

I'll say it again here.

Capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income, but it absolutely MUST take into the length of time that the asset was held. If you simply increase the rate without accounting for inflation you will obliterate long term investments. The wealthy will only invest in things with fast turnaround, unless they want to see their entire profit disappear to inflation and taxes.

And isn't short term thinking, fast profit, and then bailing what you all want to avoid?

Think about what you're proposing rather than blindly clamoring for the deaths of the "evil wealthy." You're like a bunch of goddamn retarded villagers with torches and pitchforks.

 

[Tom]

I'll say it again here.

Capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income, but it absolutely MUST take into the length of time that the asset was held. If you simply increase the rate without accounting for inflation you will obliterate long term investments. The wealthy will only invest in things with fast turnaround, unless they want to see their entire profit disappear to inflation and taxes.

And isn't short term thinking, fast profit, and then bailing what you all want to avoid?

Think about what you're proposing rather than blindly clamoring for the deaths of the "evil wealthy." You're like a bunch of goddamn retarded villagers with torches and pitchforks.

If you have some sort of inflation factor for this type of investment/income, and don't for other types, you are distorting the market in favor of this kind of investment.

It isn't necessary to correct for inflation in the tax system, the market will do that automatically if you let it.

The problem as I see it is people with capital assets want those assets to grow with the least risk possible. One way to do that is to influence tax law to favor a particular kind of investment.

 

[BoberFett]

If you have some sort of inflation factor for this type of investment/income, and don't for other types, you are distorting the market in favor of this kind of investment.

It isn't necessary to correct for inflation in the tax system, the market will do that automatically if you let it.

The problem as I see it is people with capital assets want those assets to grow with the least risk possible. One way to do that is to influence tax law to favor a particular kind of investment.

Oh, so now the market is efficient? Make up your minds.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll say it again here.

Capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income, but it absolutely MUST take into the length of time that the asset was held. If you simply increase the rate without accounting for inflation you will obliterate long term investments. The wealthy will only invest in things with fast turnaround, unless they want to see their entire profit disappear to inflation and taxes.

And isn't short term thinking, fast profit, and then bailing what you all want to avoid?

Think about what you're proposing rather than blindly clamoring for the deaths of the "evil wealthy." You're like a bunch of goddamn retarded villagers with torches and pitchforks.

I think you're out in the weeds. Prior to the Reagan era, capital gains were taxed at comparatively very high rates. The difference between then and now is that what were considered healthy and attractive companies paid dividends, completely offsetting the problem you claim to exist. If an investor is reaping nice dividends on an annual basis, capital gains aren't much of an issue for investors going long. So companies will necessarily have to make themselves attractive in that traditional fashion. If you want growth and stability in the marketplace, that's how to get it, not from heavily rewarding cashing in on what really are relatively short term investments merely over 1 year in duration. The current methodology merely encourages churn and flightiness.

 

[drebo]

Is that the issue? Or is the bigger issue Dems like Shumer who continue to block repeal of the carried interest provision or refusing to address the unfairness of the idle rich not paying even close to the effective tax rate many of the $250 thousandairs pay, while paying populist lip service to the growing wealth disparity among the top 5% and everyone else?

Hypocrites...because of the limousine liberals who brought them to power that will have none of those tax increases imposed on them.

So...what happens when those rich simply stop investing?

I mean, they've got enough money already, right? Liquidate holdings and keep it in a shoebox under the bed. Or, better yet, send it to a tax haven.

15% of $1,000,000 is a lot more than 39% of $250,000. Be happy they decide to do their investing here and not somewhere else that might actually appreciate it.

 

[Jhhnn]

So...what happens when those rich simply stop investing?

I mean, they've got enough money already, right? Liquidate holdings and keep it in a shoebox under the bed. Or, better yet, send it to a tax haven.

15% of $1,000,000 is a lot more than 39% of $250,000. Be happy they decide to do their investing here and not somewhere else that might actually appreciate it.

As if they're currently investing in anything other than govt bonds and the dollar carry trade.

As for the rest of it, American citizens pay taxes on all earnings, face exile or prison if caught not paying.

The rightwing elite beats the drum of patriotism every time they want uncle sam to borrow their money to send off young soldiers to get shot up to defend or expand their interests, so where are they when it comes to making some sacrifice of their own for the good of the country? Making threats, holding the economy hostage to their greed?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

The only legitimate argument for not raising the capital gains tax substantially is that companies will reduce dividend payouts (the reverse of what happened after 2002 legislation) thereby hurting savers and pensioners even more than Greenspansan & Bernankesan already have with ridiculously cheap money for so long.

At the same time, we have the top 400 families in this country with an average annual income of $182+ million getting 82% of their earnings from investments paying only a 16.7% effective tax rate.

Meanwhile, here we are wasting our time arguing over upper middle class people in the NY metro area making $250-$275k and why they need to see their top marginal rate rise from 35% to 39.6%. And nobody gives a sh*t that the super rich will never pay anywhere close to this because nobody wants to pick a fight.

Joke.

QFT. Wall street likes their tax rate nice and low, and are fighting to keep it that way.

 

[zsdersw]

You cannot just dismiss all opposing points of view as lies and propaganda.

It works for spidey07 and his ilk, so why can't it work for Craig234?

 

[CycloWizard]

As if they're currently investing in anything other than govt bonds and the dollar carry trade.

As for the rest of it, American citizens pay taxes on all earnings, face exile or prison if caught not paying.

The rightwing elite beats the drum of patriotism every time they want uncle sam to borrow their money to send off young soldiers to get shot up to defend or expand their interests, so where are they when it comes to making some sacrifice of their own for the good of the country? Making threats, holding the economy hostage to their greed?

So investment in the US doesn't count if all it does is fund social programs and other government spending which would otherwise be impossible? :hmm:

 

[Jhhnn]

So investment in the US doesn't count if all it does is fund social programs and other government spending which would otherwise be impossible? :hmm:

It'd be entirely possible otherwise under a different tax regime, and if we weren't engaged in protecting the overseas interests of american business, attempting to create new markets for them at gunpoint, aka the WOI.

The only things that have made Reaganomics saleable have been deficits and offshoring. We're reaching the endgame wrt both of those- the illusion is starting to fade, negative consequences come to the fore, and the reality that we've been chumped should be apparent to those who are not willfully blind.

 

[bfdd]

And this is why 'Democratic majority' doesn't mean 'Democratic majority', but rather 'Corporatist Republicans plus corporatist Democrats majority'. As I've said, we need more *progressive* Democrats to combat this.

Yeah because the progressive Democrats don't take any corporate money. They only take money from people like Soros.

 

[Zebo]

Golden rule my dad taught me from about 7 about same time I dismissed the mythological BS...Those with the gold make the rules.

 

[Zebo]

I'll say it again here.

Capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income, but it absolutely MUST take into the length of time that the asset was held. If you simply increase the rate without accounting for inflation you will obliterate long term investments. The wealthy will only invest in things with fast turnaround, unless they want to see their entire profit disappear to inflation and taxes.

And isn't short term thinking, fast profit, and then bailing what you all want to avoid?

Think about what you're proposing rather than blindly clamoring for the deaths of the "evil wealthy." You're like a bunch of goddamn retarded villagers with torches and pitchforks.

This. Basis should be sale price - cost - inflation rate. What tax system is saying now is working for a living is worth less than investing for a living. And make no mistake you can bet to lose (short sell), gut a company, offshore, just as many ways as bet to win so creating jobs is a canard only stupid people fall for.

 

[Zebo]

As if they're currently investing in anything other than govt bonds and the dollar carry trade.

As for the rest of it, American citizens pay taxes on all earnings, face exile or prison if caught not paying.

The rightwing elite beats the drum of patriotism every time they want uncle sam to borrow their money to send off young soldiers to get shot up to defend or expand their interests, so where are they when it comes to making some sacrifice of their own for the good of the country? Making threats, holding the economy hostage to their greed?

If we depended on rich people to loan us money we'd be like Mexico. Unless you come from right family the body guards will throw you out the bank loling. This is why some legislation was passed to try and take corny capitalism out. Things like SBA, fairness in lending, etc., which of course the right fought tooth and nail and is still woefully inadequate.