$425 Phone Bill! Anyone with PBX / Multi-line experience needed..

amnesiac

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
15,781
1
71
I was reviewing our office phone bill and it came to the above astronomical price.
About $250 went to pay for 6 lines (4 voice, 1 fax, 1 backup). The rest is local toll / international calls.

This is about average every month.

In addition, we are paying $30 a month for maintenance on the equipment to TransCom..

Are there any good alternatives to this? I.e. owning our own PBX equipment, etc.?
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,725
5,851
146
If you are serious, I'll ask my telecom friend. How many phones do you have, and are you paying for voicemail, etc?
 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,899
0
0
What about VOIP??

i don't know much about it, but i'm thinking it might be cheaper.
 

amnesiac

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
15,781
1
71
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
What about VOIP??

i don't know much about it, but i'm thinking it might be cheaper.

That wouldn't be practical for a 4 line business phone system, and it wouldn't help for the fax either..
 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,899
0
0
Originally posted by: amnesiac 2.0
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
What about VOIP??

i don't know much about it, but i'm thinking it might be cheaper.

That wouldn't be practical for a 4 line business phone system, and it wouldn't help for the fax either..

have you tried www.vonage.com?

I just signed up for it and it looks good to me.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
$40 a line? That's actually not *too* bad for a business line. Lowest I've ever seen is ~$20 a line. Check your contract with your phone company and then shop around.

We pay about $40 a line for some of our locations because there is only one company in the area and that's what we get stuck with. But, in others, there are some small providers that will be much more competitive.

Don't know much about the $30 maintanence charge.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Also, are the lines all able to be dialed into - meaning seperate number for each one - or are they roll over lines? If they are roll over lines they should be a little bit cheaper.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
You could outright purchase a little PBX system w/ voicemail and four stations(phones) for around $1500-$2000. Figure in another $150-$350 for every phone after that.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
bumpsie to see if any of the day crew has some input
 

amnesiac

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
15,781
1
71
Originally posted by: vi_edit
You could outright purchase a little PBX system w/ voicemail and four stations(phones) for around $1500-$2000. Figure in another $150-$350 for every phone after that.

I was considering that as an option; I just don't know where to look.

Also they are all direct dial lines but have rollover as well.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
I was considering that as an option; I just don't know where to look.

With where you are, just open the phone book to the "business telephone" section of the yellow pages and look around. Probably pages worth of companies. Maybe talk to some friends to see what system they have in their office and who their installer/supporter is/was.

There are probably hundreds of different systems out there, but personally I'd stick to some of the larger names for support reasons. I've personally had good luck with samsung phones and switches....although a switched system is probably a little overkill.

How many stations are we talking about?
 

ShawnReeves

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2000
3,346
0
76
Call 800-244-4931 Ask for the Neighborhood Plan Build By MCI. My Wife have been with the company for serveral years. Shes an Account Manager and im in Security. (Yes I only have one bullet for my gun)
The Neighborhood Plan gives you Unlimited (no rate per minute) Local and Long distance with all the features like Voice mail caller ID and ect ect for $49 month. If you live in Jersey and call your family in Texas everyday for 10 hours a day, your bill is still $49. And remember thats for both LOCAL and LONG DISTANCE with one bill. Before this plan my phone bill was $125+.They also have great Business plans and International rates. Also if you are a freq flyer they give you 5000k miles to start and 5miles for every dollar you spend a month. So take $50 @5miles per dollar=250miles a month. Bout time you got something back in return huh? My wife and I are going to Cancun this summer from the miles we have racked up.

Good Luck!
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Sounds like you have POTS lines.

You could prolly get a base Nortel system with 6 line capability and a 1 yr. warranty starting at $800 or so. Then each phone will run between $75 for a refurb to $180 for a new one. Then there is the installation charge. I set up a system similar to this at one of our locations. Our backup line and fax are not through the PBX, but the other 5 lines are.

Depends on the availability of your local telcos how much you'll pay per month. Our base charge is $22. However, once all the other fees are added in, each line comes out to about $30 mo.
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
76
IMHO do not consider vonage or any other VOIP solution unless you have a T1 (or other leased line) connection to the internet. Those are fine for home use over your DSL/cable line, but in a business situation it's just bad practice... if your cable modem goes on the blink or the provider has problems, boom, there go your business phone lines--the lifeblood of most any business.

I use and recommend Nortel stuff. It's pricey but does an excellent job. A 6-line setup isn't too small to consider a key system (basically a mini-PBX). Nortel makes one called Norstar that has been around for years, and scales from a few analog lines all the way up to multiple T1 or PRI trunks. Nortel's phone sets are also pretty good.

The problem is that they can be pretty complicated to install, coupled with the fact that you can't just walk into a store and buy them. You'll need to have a licensed telco installer put them in and do most of the setup/admin. If you're ballsy, buy some used equipment off of ebay (Nortel's retail prices are hugely inflated) and either teach yourself or see if you can pay an installer to install the equipment and support it. It totally depends on how involved you want to get in telecom. It is a completely different beast than Windows/networking and to a large degree still relies on dinosaur-age technology, but it's definitely a good skillset to have.

Look on ebay or call local providers and ask about a Nortel Norstar CICS (Compact Integrated Communications System) plus a Flash voicemail unit. You can wire your fax line into the Norstar and then add an analog terminal adapter for your fax machine/server, or, since you're using all POTS lines you could just wire the fax line directly to the fax machine, bypassing the PBX.

Good luck

l2c

Edit: and if you want to spend a bit more, look into the BCM (Business Communications Manager) by Nortel. It will eventually replace the Norstar system but right now they're still both available. The BCM has the advantage of being Windows-NT based. One thing I hate about Norstar is that normal administration/setup tasks are done through a TUI (i.e. on a phone set using the keypad/soft keys plus a two-line LCD display--not exactly elegant). I basically bought a BCM off of ebay, with a bunch of phones and the appropriate modules (T1, 32 digital stations, 8 analog stations) and taught myself how to install and administer it. Even though all the hard-core telephony concepts/buzzspeak is still there, at least you can administer it with a web-based interface from anywhere on your LAN (or WAN, as the case may be). It's also got voicemail built-in (but requires keycodes to enable) as well as tons of other functionality (including VoIP trunks and IP-based phone sets--but ditto on the keycodes). Nortel updates the software every year or so. A brand-new release, version 3.0 was just put out end of last year that adds several features and bug fixes. Be aware though that if you buy any Nortel equipment off of ebay (or any other non-Nortel licensed dealer) that you have no warranty and no tech support! I have had to rely on kind folks on USENET and mailing lists to help me where I had problems. I saved a TON of money doing it this way (and learned a lot about telecom in the process) but it was a hard road fraught with potential problems. Bottom line is that BCM is a fantastic phone system that will grow well into the future. Being PC-based, it can do things you could never accomplish with Norstar.
 

Tanner

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2001
7,391
0
0
honestly check those international calls to see where they're going... oh wait...did U say that U have a PBX or not?

If U DO have a PBX BEWARE! My boss of the last job I was @ said that one of his clients had their PBX hacked by "terrorist like people" using it to dial Iraq for TONS of minutes! So... I'm not exactly sure how to secure a PBX...but if U have one...and a HUGE bill...look into it.. of course...in this case..AT&T called them and said...what's up...who's makin' these calls...this isn't right... :)
 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,899
0
0
Originally posted by: luv2chill
IMHO do not consider vonage or any other VOIP solution unless you have a T1 (or other leased line) connection to the internet. Those are fine for home use over your DSL/cable line, but in a business situation it's just bad practice... if your cable modem goes on the blink or the provider has problems, boom, there go your business phone lines--the lifeblood of most any business.

I use and recommend Nortel stuff. It's pricey but does an excellent job. A 6-line setup isn't too small to consider a key system (basically a mini-PBX). Nortel makes one called Norstar that has been around for years, and scales from a few analog lines all the way up to multiple T1 or PRI trunks. Nortel's phone sets are also pretty good.

The problem is that they can be pretty complicated to install, coupled with the fact that you can't just walk into a store and buy them. You'll need to have a licensed telco installer put them in and do most of the setup/admin. If you're ballsy, buy some used equipment off of ebay (Nortel's retail prices are hugely inflated) and either teach yourself or see if you can pay an installer to install the equipment and support it. It totally depends on how involved you want to get in telecom. It is a completely different beast than Windows/networking and to a large degree still relies on dinosaur-age technology, but it's definitely a good skillset to have.

Look on ebay or call local providers and ask about a Nortel Norstar CICS (Compact Integrated Communications System) plus a Flash voicemail unit. You can wire your fax line into the Norstar and then add an analog terminal adapter for your fax machine/server, or, since you're using all POTS lines you could just wire the fax line directly to the fax machine, bypassing the PBX.

Good luck

l2c

good thinking. your absolutely right. i shoulda thougt of that myself. i was just thinking in terms of my home and how great it would be. for home it is great. i also have 2 cell phones in the house so it's not a big deal if my home line goes out. not so good for business tho.

 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
76
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Originally posted by: luv2chill
IMHO do not consider vonage or any other VOIP solution unless you have a T1 (or other leased line) connection to the internet. Those are fine for home use over your DSL/cable line, but in a business situation it's just bad practice... if your cable modem goes on the blink or the provider has problems, boom, there go your business phone lines--the lifeblood of most any business.

I use and recommend Nortel stuff. It's pricey but does an excellent job. A 6-line setup isn't too small to consider a key system (basically a mini-PBX). Nortel makes one called Norstar that has been around for years, and scales from a few analog lines all the way up to multiple T1 or PRI trunks. Nortel's phone sets are also pretty good.

The problem is that they can be pretty complicated to install, coupled with the fact that you can't just walk into a store and buy them. You'll need to have a licensed telco installer put them in and do most of the setup/admin. If you're ballsy, buy some used equipment off of ebay (Nortel's retail prices are hugely inflated) and either teach yourself or see if you can pay an installer to install the equipment and support it. It totally depends on how involved you want to get in telecom. It is a completely different beast than Windows/networking and to a large degree still relies on dinosaur-age technology, but it's definitely a good skillset to have.

Look on ebay or call local providers and ask about a Nortel Norstar CICS (Compact Integrated Communications System) plus a Flash voicemail unit. You can wire your fax line into the Norstar and then add an analog terminal adapter for your fax machine/server, or, since you're using all POTS lines you could just wire the fax line directly to the fax machine, bypassing the PBX.

Good luck

l2c

good thinking. your absolutely right. i shoulda thougt of that myself. i was just thinking in terms of my home and how great it would be. for home it is great. i also have 2 cell phones in the house so it's not a big deal if my home line goes out. not so good for business tho.
I hear you... I'm considering vonage (or one of the other Cisco-based VoIP providers) as a second line for my home too. One thing I wonder about is 911 access though. How does vonage handle that?

One thing is for sure, VoIP will eventually become ubiquitous... there's no reason to have separate voice/data lines anymore. But broadband connections need to become more reliable, cheaper, and in more homes before VoIP becomes widespread.

l2c
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: luv2chillEdit: and if you want to spend a bit more, look into the BCM (Business Communications Manager) by Nortel. It will eventually replace the Norstar system but right now they're still both available. The BCM has the advantage of being Windows-NT based. One thing I hate about Norstar is that normal administration/setup tasks are done through a TUI (i.e. on a phone set using the keypad/soft keys plus a two-line LCD display--not exactly elegant). I basically bought a BCM off of ebay, with a bunch of phones and the appropriate modules (T1, 32 digital stations, 8 analog stations) and taught myself how to install and administer it. Even though all the hard-core telephony concepts/buzzspeak is still there, at least you can administer it with a web-based interface from anywhere on your LAN (or WAN, as the case may be). It's also got voicemail built-in (but requires keycodes to enable) as well as tons of other functionality (including VoIP trunks and IP-based phone sets--but ditto on the keycodes). Nortel updates the software every year or so. A brand-new release, version 3.0 was just put out end of last year that adds several features and bug fixes. Be aware though that if you buy any Nortel equipment off of ebay (or any other non-Nortel licensed dealer) that you have no warranty and no tech support! I have had to rely on kind folks on USENET and mailing lists to help me where I had problems. I saved a TON of money doing it this way (and learned a lot about telecom in the process) but it was a hard road fraught with potential problems. Bottom line is that BCM is a fantastic phone system that will grow well into the future. Being PC-based, it can do things you could never accomplish with Norstar.

I had looked into the BCM for one of our locations. If I can find a good deal on a used system, I may just go for it.

You are correct. Working with the Nortel 2-line display can be a royal pain sometimes. Especially with ports.
 

SherEPunjab

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
3,841
0
0
Originally posted by: amnesiac 2.0
Originally posted by: vi_edit
You could outright purchase a little PBX system w/ voicemail and four stations(phones) for around $1500-$2000. Figure in another $150-$350 for every phone after that.

I was considering that as an option; I just don't know where to look.

Also they are all direct dial lines but have rollover as well.

i have the AT&T 4 line business phones. we use them with rollover as well. they support all the pbx like systems autoattendant, extension numbers, voicemail, transfers, intercom, caller id, supports up to 12 stations. AT&T 964. its a little less than $200 a pop and i used OD.com coupons :). All phones can be direct dialed as well. i just use those, and pay the monthly bill i thnk its 40 per line for us. works fine so far.



link
 

amnesiac

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
15,781
1
71
I think a big chunk of our bill comes from local toll / long distance calls.

Anyone know good deals on local toll service?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: amnesiac 2.0
I think a big chunk of our bill comes from local toll / long distance calls.

Anyone know good deals on local toll service?

Kind of hard to say. Each city(or telco in that city) has it's own local call policy. In my city I'm not charged anything for local calls, I just pay a flat fee every month regardless of how many local calls I make and how long those calls add up to. In other cities though you get charged a per call and/or per minute charge for every local call you make. It really just boils down to what is available in your area. You can just look up telephone companies in the phonebook and do a little shopping around.

I want to stress again that you should look to see if there is a contract set up with your current phone provider. Most phone companies make you sign a contract for 3-5 years for your service. If your contract goes up they'll often times renew it for you without changing the prices (for the better) and roll you into another 3-5 year contract. The penalties for early termination of the contracts can be QUITE expensive.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Tanner
honestly check those international calls to see where they're going... oh wait...did U say that U have a PBX or not?

If U DO have a PBX BEWARE! My boss of the last job I was @ said that one of his clients had their PBX hacked by "terrorist like people" using it to dial Iraq for TONS of minutes! So... I'm not exactly sure how to secure a PBX...but if U have one...and a HUGE bill...look into it.. of course...in this case..AT&T called them and said...what's up...who's makin' these calls...this isn't right... :)

If the PBX had DISA or 'Direct Inward System Access' enabled, then hacking or phreaking the switch isn't too difficult with a good war dialer. DISA is nice for offsite usage, but I never enable it on any of my switches.