Question 4080 Reviews

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Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
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Maybe, but sadly I notice a trend of everything going up in price, regarding computer hardware. It seems to me that computer building is becoming increasingly premium market and low margins are in OEM machines. So basically you can build your own computer, but if money is tight, Dell is your answer. And there hasn't been cheap hardware for years, therefore it might be a point of no return for it.
You're preaching to the choir here. I am using a 1660super out of a Dell build. Nvidia is playing a very dangerous game. Restricting supply in a down computer market while significantly increasing prices well above inflation.

I would hold off on graphics card purchases for probably 6 months. All of this market manipulation is hurting the PC industry. People will go back to using the same PC for 6 or 7 years.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,705
4,586
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You're preaching to the choir here. I am using a 1660super out of a Dell build. Nvidia is playing a very dangerous game. Restricting supply in a down computer market while significantly increasing prices well above inflation.

I would hold off on graphics card purchases for probably 6 months. All of this market manipulation is hurting the PC industry. People will go back to using the same PC for 6 or 7 years.
Addictions (@ Nvidia) are hard to break.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,635
3,095
136
You're preaching to the choir here. I am using a 1660super out of a Dell build. Nvidia is playing a very dangerous game. Restricting supply in a down computer market while significantly increasing prices well above inflation.

I would hold off on graphics card purchases for probably 6 months. All of this market manipulation is hurting the PC industry. People will go back to using the same PC for 6 or 7 years.

The last enthusiast GPU that was priced right was the 1080Ti, and that's what I'm running. I drew my line in the sand a long time ago when I saw the 2080Ti price and I just won't pay what these guys want for their stuff. I'll end up buying used or buying nothing at all and just get out of the PC hobby. I'll probably upgrade my kids PCs down the line, but that's it.
 
Aug 16, 2021
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You're preaching to the choir here. I am using a 1660super out of a Dell build. Nvidia is playing a very dangerous game. Restricting supply in a down computer market while significantly increasing prices well above inflation.

I would hold off on graphics card purchases for probably 6 months. All of this market manipulation is hurting the PC industry. People will go back to using the same PC for 6 or 7 years.
And the thing is that nVidia may not be wrong, because media at first said tha tprices are too high, but then they warmed up to them and see them as normal. Then forums and like half of reddit started seeing them as normal and now it just doesn't feel all that abnormal, despite still being in every way abnormal. I remember I cringed when 9900K was launched, because it was obscene, hardly any better than i7, way too hot and overall poo unless you wanted performance at any cost, now that's normal and office tier (non K series) i5 or i7 is basically in many aspects the same as 9900K and at first shocking price of 500-600 EUR is now not even flagship level anymore. Now 100C, 300 watts, GHz to the moon and 1k EUR is flagship level. I'm not even all that old, but ffs all this looks like complete and utter madness. It's not just price that went south. I think that so many bad standards and bad practices got normalized in recent years, especially by media, which makes f##ls believe that they are normal.
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
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And the thing is that nVidia may not be wrong, because media at first said tha tprices are too high, but then they warmed up to them and see them as normal. Then forums and like half of reddit started seeing them as normal and now it just doesn't feel all that abnormal, despite still being in every way abnormal. I remember I cringed when 9900K was launched, because it was obscene, hardly any better than i7, way too hot and overall poo unless you wanted performance at any cost, now that's normal and office tier (non K series) i5 or i7 is basically in many aspects the same as 9900K and at first shocking price of 500-600 EUR is now not even flagship level anymore. Now 100C, 300 watts, GHz to the moon and 1k EUR is flagship level. I'm not even all that old, but ffs all this looks like complete and utter madness. It's not just price that went south. I think that so many bad standards and bad practices got normalized in recent years, especially by media, which makes f##ls believe that they are normal.

At some point gaming enthusiasts will hit a pricing wall where they can't or won't spend the money. How much do you think that pricing wall is? I'm guessing around $2500 for an 80 class.
 
Aug 16, 2021
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At some point gaming enthusiasts will hit a pricing wall where they can't or won't spend the money. How much do you think that pricing wall is? I'm guessing around $2500 for an 80 class.
Don't know and don't care, when adequate GPUs went over 300 EUR, I lost all interest. Just like in old days, 200 EUR is normal, 100-150 EUR is entry, 300+ EUR is premium. My mind only managed to move by 50 EUR upwards, anything more than that just doesn't register well and doesn't matter. I wouldn't think about buying anything 400+ EUR at all.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
2,064
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And the thing is that nVidia may not be wrong, because media at first said tha tprices are too high, but then they warmed up to them and see them as normal. Then forums and like half of reddit started seeing them as normal and now it just doesn't feel all that abnormal, despite still being in every way abnormal. I remember I cringed when 9900K was launched, because it was obscene, hardly any better than i7, way too hot and overall poo unless you wanted performance at any cost, now that's normal and office tier (non K series) i5 or i7 is basically in many aspects the same as 9900K and at first shocking price of 500-600 EUR is now not even flagship level anymore. Now 100C, 300 watts, GHz to the moon and 1k EUR is flagship level. I'm not even all that old, but ffs all this looks like complete and utter madness. It's not just price that went south. I think that so many bad standards and bad practices got normalized in recent years, especially by media, which makes f##ls believe that they are normal.
All of the madness was caused by the crypto miners. That no longer exists and Nvidia is implying that high prices are here to stay. I think the steam survey says the most common GPU is still a 1060.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,320
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The (nearly) free money spigot got turned off over the summer and the market is still reeling trying to adjust to the new reality.

Couple that with literally tens of thousands of people in tech, real estate, finance and adjacent industries getting laid off recently... price insensitive demand is going to drop off a cliff soon.

Hell, just look at AM5 sales. Good product, but not a good value compared to previous generation Zen and Alder Lake parts going for fractions of their new prices.

I expect the initial run of RTX 4080 cards will still sell out, but only as a function of small supply. Given that nV seems to want to sell all their overproduced RTX 3000 series stock to fill the gaps.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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There is already a lot of blowback online over the 4080 pricing. Crypto is gone, PC sales are way down but the price of GPU's seems to be increasing. It's going to take 3-5 months before Nvidia starts feeling the pain. Look at Intel, there are AMD cults for Ryzen all because of the greed of Intel for more than a decade. The only cure to such a sickness, cheap hardware cures all.
I don't think it's fair to call a group of people trying to get the best value for their money a cult.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
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I don't think it's fair to call a group of people trying to get the best value for their money a cult.

I think it's weird how us PC enthusiasts get pissed and all emotionally invested about PC parts that cost a few hundred bucks. I wonder if people get all bent out of shape on fishing pole forums and stuff when a new reel costs more than the previous model. Then again, PCs are unique because you have to keep buying new ones to stay current and capable, so I guess it does make sense.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,705
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I think it's weird how us PC enthusiasts get pissed and all emotionally invested about PC parts that cost a few hundred bucks. I wonder if people get all bent out of shape on fishing pole forums and stuff when a new reel costs more than the previous model. Then again, PCs are unique because you have to keep buying new ones to stay current and capable, so I guess it does make sense.
Over 200% in a few yrs is not a normal increase. Anyone saying so is gaslighting.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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I think it's weird how us PC enthusiasts get pissed and all emotionally invested about PC parts that cost a few hundred bucks. I wonder if people get all bent out of shape on fishing pole forums and stuff when a new reel costs more than the previous model. Then again, PCs are unique because you have to keep buying new ones to stay current and capable, so I guess it does make sense.
Fishing pole and reel community getting bent out of shape? I see what you did there.

PC's are in a bad place right now, Nvidia is hell bent on keeping their profit margins and the performance crown (what else is new) but this time we are literally getting space heater video cards. I don't want a PC pumping out 700+ watts when I'm gaming even if it was dead silent.

I remember when cards were pushing 250 watts and thinking, damn that is too high.
 
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Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
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That's just false, because I do criticize AMD tech as well, while you consistently show huge bias, including seeing 'vaseline' blurriness that no one else seems to see.

Who are you tell me what I see and don't see?

Newsflash I'm not the only one that saw ghosting, bluriness and temporal artifacts with FSR. If you look at the comment section on TPU, you will see several forumites noticed more ghosting with FSR, and on the YouTube video, several people commented that the DLSS looked sharper and clearer while FSR looked terrible. Also, DLAA is supposed to be the best according to many people.

Many people also said the opposite, that DLSS had more artifacts and IQ issues and they preferred FSR. I've said this many times already, there is a strong subjective component to image quality comparisons.

There is also a thing called confirmation bias, and people are very susceptible to it......including you and me.

I'm going to time stamp the blurry trees in the YouTube video. FSR is in the middle and it looks noticeably more blurry to me compared to TAA and DLSS. If you can't see it, I'm not going to accuse you of being bias towards AMD just because...


I didn't know that you are part of both the Nvidia and AMD developer teams and have inside information how many man-hours each company spent on this.

I don't need to be on their development team. I suggest you do some research on ML and see why so many tech companies are using it to improve their products and product experience.

It's not some whacky gimmick. ML and AI are two of the main reasons why the Google Pixel phones had such a big lead in a still shot quality for a time before the other phone manufacturers started to get in on it and eventually catch up.

In any case, FSR's quality has also improved by leaps and bounds.

I would definitely agree.

You seem to have this magical belief in ML, but the advantage of Nvidia could be explained by them having a substantial lead start. Nvidia also have a lead in raytracing, but you can't attribute that lead to ML.

Machine learning and AI are very imporant to RT performance because of DLSS and FG. How do you think they are getting such large performance gains with DLSS and FG so that you can "max out" RT settings?

Of course the difference between XeSS on Intel & DLSS vs FSR 2 is that the former use unique hardware, while AMD provides a solution that works about equally well on all hardware. Nvidia has a habit of leaving owners of previous gen cards out in the cold, while AMD doesn't.

This is true but there are pros and cons to each approach. Intel and Nvidia's results in higher performance and quality on their hardware though at the cost of being proprietary and exclusive. AMD's approach results in easier adoption and accessibility, but at the cost of quality and performance.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,984
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And you claim I don't know what I'm talking about. The RT accelerator cores that AMD employs aren't like the ones that Nvidia uses. Nvidia uses dedicated RT cores that are a separate hardware block, while the ones that AMD uses are integrated into the GPU compute units themselves.

And they are doing just that, but it's not the same thing as dedicated RT hardware that Nvidia uses. AMD's approach is more hybridized.

Completely wrong , both AMD and NVIDIA are using dedicated RT cores for RayTracing. The implementation is deferent but the work they do is the same. The AMD RT cores are part of the Compute Unit (CU) and the NVIDIA RT cores are part of the Streaming Multiprocessors (SM).

Also to point out that AMD increased the RT cores only by 20% (from 80 to 96) from 6950ΧΤ to 7900XTX but the performance uplift is up to 80% due to way higher performance increase from each RT core. Put it simple so you can understand it the IPC increase of each RT core in RDNA3 is 50% or more.

AMD RDNA3 CU

resize


NVIDIA ADA SM

ADA-SM.png
 
Aug 16, 2021
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I remember somebody here saying that card prices are now getting lower and saner, meanwhile this is for how much cards go at various Lithuanian retailers:
1.PNG
2.PNG
3.PNG

And this is a list of cards are unavailable "totally not sold out":
4.PNG

Doesn't even matter that some of them are last gen. I don't think I have seen any card other than GT 710 sold at MSRP for at least 3 years already. It's like mining madness never ended here. Fun fact is that it's literally cheaper to fly to UK, buy a card, get sh$t-faced drunk for 2-3 days and come back.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,110
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I remember somebody here saying that card prices are now getting lower and saner, meanwhile this is for how much cards go at various Lithuanian retailers:
View attachment 71429

(snip)

Fun fact is that it's literally cheaper to fly to UK, buy a card, get sh$t-faced drunk for 2-3 days and come back.
Prices ARE getting saner. I'm also from Eastern Europe and just bought a 6800XT for 620 EUR. Remove the VAT, convert to dollars and you get the equivalent of $530 in US, which is around the better deals currently available there.
 
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ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
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I'm going to time stamp the blurry trees in the YouTube video. FSR is in the middle and it looks noticeably more blurry to me compared to TAA and DLSS. If you can't see it, I'm not going to accuse you of being bias towards AMD just because...


Running that video on a 2160p monitor at 2160p really shows how crap YouTube is for quality comparisons. The image quality on Youtube is just not good enough for comparisons.

I've spent hours comparing DLSS vs FSR vs TAA vs no AA in several games and the winner is always no anti aliasing when it comes to image quality. If I am forced to use TAA (yuck), then I must use AMD Fidelity FX (in Reshade) and Nvidia's game filter (sharpness + clarity) to counter the Vaseline blur that TAA does.

Both DLSS and FSR destroy image quality to the point where I feel like I am playing on lowered resolution. The best option is to lower settings a bit.