401(k) sucks, I hate stocks

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

His statement is retarded. There's absolutely nothing wrong with leverage and, in fact, its a benefit to your life.

Paying cash for a car? Only if the loan is at 8%+.

OP, shove the money in and don't look at it.

I've lost thousands in this market and don't care. I'm not touching it for more than 30 years, in that time the thousands will be regained and I'll have a ton of money.

Time is as good as a diversifier as multiple stocks.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

His statement is retarded. There's absolutely nothing wrong with leverage and, in fact, its a benefit to your life.

Paying cash for a car? Only if the loan is at 8%+.

that's a good point. my car loan is for 2.9% so it'd be a waste to pay cash for it.

 

[darthsidious]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

His statement is retarded. There's absolutely nothing wrong with leverage and, in fact, its a benefit to your life.

Paying cash for a car? Only if the loan is at 8%+.

OP, shove the money in and don't look at it.

I've lost thousands in this market and don't care. I'm not touching it for more than 30 years, in that time the thousands will be regained and I'll have a ton of money.

Time is as good as a diversifier as multiple stocks.

http://homepage.mac.com/j.nors...nce/risk-and-time.html

I know you have some finance related background, so I'd recommend poking around the rest of the website; there's some interesting information (especially for someone like me w/o a formal background in finance, but having interest in it's theoretical underpinnings).

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

His statement is retarded. There's absolutely nothing wrong with leverage and, in fact, its a benefit to your life.

Paying cash for a car? Only if the loan is at 8%+.

OP, shove the money in and don't look at it.

I've lost thousands in this market and don't care. I'm not touching it for more than 30 years, in that time the thousands will be regained and I'll have a ton of money.

Time is as good as a diversifier as multiple stocks.

Hah, there's a difference between using debt properly and and taking out a 5-figure car loan on a massively decreasing asset. I seem to remember you were a high-powered wall street type, you should know this.

Also, note that I never said there was anything wrong with a car loan in an absolute sense. But when someone complains about the "necessity" of a car payment detracting from one's ability to make 401k contributions, well, that's bullshit, and part of the reason this country's national saving rate is shit.

And if you don't think they roll that subsidized interest rate back into the purchase price, you're naive. Don't let me stop you from justifying your decision after the fact, though.

 

[Indolent]

Originally posted by: mizzou
Just opted into my 401k program and am starting real small as I am young and I'm not sure how much of my paycheck I can stand to hold out (I don't really make much)

I'm putting in $xx each paycheck (paid every 14 days) and employer matches to maximum $xx (1/4 roughly). So about $xx each paycheck

I put EVERYTHING in high yield bonds (gov't backed bonds w/ around 5-6% yield)*EDIT

I know this is no way to build a portfolio, but I'm not putting my money in this crapshoot of a market until I know a thing or two about investing properly.

I looked at the performance of all of our investing companies funds (oneamerica is who we use )

So far year to date, everything except the obvious bond/cash market is in extreme negatives. Not one fund is performing in the positives, but a few aren't down too much.


How do I overcome my fear of the stock market? I'm one of those "stuff money under the bed" type people, but I do save alot of money.

You seem way too paranoid. An entire portfolio of bonds is too conservative for a young person with 30+ years until retirement.

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Hah, there's a difference between using debt properly and and taking out a 5-figure car loan on a massively decreasing asset.

If you have already made up your mind to purchase something, whether it is a depreciating (massively decreasing?) asset or not should have no barring whatsoever on your method of payment. It's irrelevant.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

His statement is retarded. There's absolutely nothing wrong with leverage and, in fact, its a benefit to your life.

Paying cash for a car? Only if the loan is at 8%+.

that's a good point. my car loan is for 2.9% so it'd be a waste to pay cash for it.

While paying off a 0% loan as slowly as possible is a smart decision, I think Playmaker's point was that many college grads purchase way more car than they should. Even if the car is financed at 0% for the life of the loan, it's probably still too expensive if the payments are eating up a significant chunk of each paycheck.

I'm not saying you personally are spending too much on your car payments - I'm just making a general statement.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

Well unless you both live and work inside a big city you are going to need a car in order to get to work (not to mention everything else in life). And its just play stupid to suggest that you should only pay cash for a car. WTF is the problem with taking out a $10,000 loan for a new car when you make $60,000 a year? Sure it is a depreciating asset, but you are paying it down as fast as it is depreciating so your net worth is more or less staying the same. I mean if as a college student you were able to pay your way through college with no debt and had $15,000+ at the end for a new car then more power to you, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury. I had $13,000 in college debt and took on $9,000 more for my first car (put my $5000 signing bonus as the down payment), but you don't need to look at your debt level, you need to look at debt/income. For example with overtime I am making like $75,000/year out of college, so where is the problem with having $14,000 in debt?

Also FWIW they don't usually build nuclear plants near big cities, so me and JohnCU pretty much needed reliable cars the day we graduated even if you didn't .

EDIT: and as for the OP, I feel your pain man, my stupid 401K has lost me like 10$ so far in my life ( should be making money not losing it...).

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

Well unless you both live and work inside a big city you are going to need a car in order to get to work (not to mention everything else in life). And its just play stupid to suggest that you should only pay cash for a car. WTF is the problem with taking out a $10,000 loan for a new car when you make $60,000 a year? Sure it is a depreciating asset, but you are paying it down as fast as it is depreciating so your net worth is more or less staying the same. I mean if as a college student you were able to pay your way through college with no debt and had $15,000+ at the end for a new car then more power to you, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury. I had $13,000 in college debt and took on $9,000 more for my first car (put my $5000 signing bonus as the down payment), but you don't need to look at your debt level, you need to look at debt/income. For example with overtime I am making like $75,000/year out of college, so where is the problem with having $14,000 in debt?

Also FWIW they don't usually build nuclear plants near big cities, so me and JohnCU pretty much needed reliable cars the day we graduated even if you didn't .

this is true , which is why i wanted a super reliable car and bought a brand new 07 altima 3 weeks out of school for $27k. $473 a month, oh well, it's beautiful. and 2.9% interest is nothing.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

Well unless you both live and work inside a big city you are going to need a car in order to get to work (not to mention everything else in life). And its just play stupid to suggest that you should only pay cash for a car. WTF is the problem with taking out a $10,000 loan for a new car when you make $60,000 a year? Sure it is a depreciating asset, but you are paying it down as fast as it is depreciating so your net worth is more or less staying the same. I mean if as a college student you were able to pay your way through college with no debt and had $15,000+ at the end for a new car then more power to you, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury. I had $13,000 in college debt and took on $9,000 more for my first car (put my $5000 signing bonus as the down payment), but you don't need to look at your debt level, you need to look at debt/income. For example with overtime I am making like $75,000/year out of college, so where is the problem with having $14,000 in debt?

Also FWIW they don't usually build nuclear plants near big cities, so me and JohnCU pretty much needed reliable cars the day we graduated even if you didn't .

this is true , which is why i wanted a super reliable car and bought a brand new 07 altima 3 weeks out of school for $27k. $473 a month, oh well, it's beautiful. and 2.9% interest is nothing.

Of course, you bought a top of the line Altima for that price!

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Playmaker
Who says you have to buy a car? If you're too poor to pay cash for a beater to get around until you can save for a decent car, then get a fuckin bus pass. His point is perfectly valid ... needing to take out 5-figure debt to buy a car when you're fresh out of college is the true "stupidiest" (sic) statement made on ATOT.

Well unless you both live and work inside a big city you are going to need a car in order to get to work (not to mention everything else in life). And its just play stupid to suggest that you should only pay cash for a car. WTF is the problem with taking out a $10,000 loan for a new car when you make $60,000 a year? Sure it is a depreciating asset, but you are paying it down as fast as it is depreciating so your net worth is more or less staying the same. I mean if as a college student you were able to pay your way through college with no debt and had $15,000+ at the end for a new car then more power to you, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury. I had $13,000 in college debt and took on $9,000 more for my first car (put my $5000 signing bonus as the down payment), but you don't need to look at your debt level, you need to look at debt/income. For example with overtime I am making like $75,000/year out of college, so where is the problem with having $14,000 in debt?

Also FWIW they don't usually build nuclear plants near big cities, so me and JohnCU pretty much needed reliable cars the day we graduated even if you didn't .

this is true , which is why i wanted a super reliable car and bought a brand new 07 altima 3 weeks out of school for $27k. $473 a month, oh well, it's beautiful. and 2.9% interest is nothing.

Of course, you bought a top of the line Altima for that price!

well, it is the 3.5SE... in hindsight, i should have bought something cheaper but i had a 100 hp jetta in college and it took a year and a half to accelerate to 45 mph so i needed something faster.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: JohnCU


well, it is the 3.5SE... in hindsight, i should have bought something cheaper but i had 100 hp jetta in college and it took a year and a half to accelerate to 45 mph so i thought I needed something faster.

Fixed for you!

Also, the 2.5 has 168 HP and plenty of torque for what you need, not to mention the 31/32 mpg on the highway!

If I were in the market for a car, I would love to get the 2.5 Altima...I love them!

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'd stay away from bonds for a few decades, right now I'm buying domestic small caps because of the relative weakness of the dollar.

Do some research, and get that $15K/year invested

And then figure out how to fund a Roth too...

 

[BrownTown]

BrownTown bought the 2008 Ford Focus because its cheaper then your fancy cars. OF course I don't know the first thing about cars so maybe it sux, but fortunately the fact I don't know about cars means I would neve know if it sucked or not so I can't be depressed about it .

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: JohnCU


well, it is the 3.5SE... in hindsight, i should have bought something cheaper but i had 100 hp jetta in college and it took a year and a half to accelerate to 45 mph so i thought I needed something faster.

Fixed for you!

Also, the 2.5 has 168 HP and plenty of torque for what you need, not to mention the 31/32 mpg on the highway!

If I were in the market for a car, I would love to get the 2.5 Altima...I love them!

don't you work for an american auto company..? i figured you'd get a discount. and the 2.5 is noticably slower, i test drove one, and has ugly 16" rims. the 3.5 has 268 hp. mmmm.

 

[BrownTown]

*Looks up JohnCUs car online*

Holy Crap man, what are they paying you that you can afford that!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: JohnCU


don't you work for an american auto company..? i figured you'd get a discount. and the 2.5 is noticably slower, i test drove one, and has ugly 16" rims. the 3.5 has 268 hp. mmmm.

I work for a "global" supplier that just happens to supply more "traditional domestic" makers in the US. Yes, I get a discount on Nissan, although not much of one.

Sure, the 2.5 is slower, but it's fast enough. You damn youngins!

 

[Turin39789]

Turin only pays cash for cars. He pities the fool.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I'd stay away from bonds for a few decades, right now I'm buying domestic small caps because of the relative weakness of the dollar.

Do some research, and get that $15K/year invested

And then figure out how to fund a Roth too...

I was doing pretty well until a few years ago when I hit the HCE (Highly Compensated Employee CRAP) and they started giving my 401k money back to me (about 50% of it). Now I haven't hit the HCE limit and my company cut my overtime pay to ZERO and my regular pay by 5%...so I can't afford to do it now...damnit!

I can't win (at least right now!)!!!/??

heh...

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
*Looks up JohnCUs car online*

Holy Crap man, what are they paying you that you can afford that!

apparently less than you make...

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: BrownTown
*Looks up JohnCUs car online*

Holy Crap man, what are they paying you that you can afford that!

apparently less than you make...

well this is a high tech forum, your supposed to blow all your money on new computers every 6 months, not a fancy car .

or at least blow it on women and booze...

EDIT: work more overtime..

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: BrownTown
*Looks up JohnCUs car online*

Holy Crap man, what are they paying you that you can afford that!

apparently less than you make...

well this is a high tech forum, your supposed to blow all your money on new computers every 6 months, not a fancy car .

or at least blow it on women and booze...

haha you said you make $75k after overtime. i make almost that with my new promotion and raise. depends on how long the outage lasts. and i don't get overtime except during outages since i was promoted.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
and i don't get overtime except during outages since i was promoted.

see here is the screw up right there, I now alto of people that intentionally took lower paying jobs just to get more overtime (BrownTown makes 1.5X base for OT )

 

[thomsbrain]

I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating what everyone else is saying.

This is a REALLY dumb strategy. You are in a unique position to get pure benefit from our current down market. You didn't lose anything when the market went down because you weren't invested in it yet, and if you pile money in now, you'll see nothing but profit when it turns around. Everyone else will be trying to re-gain their losses, and you'll just be gaining. Yes, that might take a couple years and will take patience. There will be more little ups and downs before we're out of this. But "buy low, sell high," means BUY LOW SELL HIGH. What is the market right now? LOW. So what should you do? BUY. Contribute as much as you can afford. Remember that each $100 you contribute only actually takes about $75 out of your paycheck. It's hard when you're young and aren't making much as have so many huge expensive things to save for (car, home, kids, kids college, retirement, etc), but this is the best way to maximize your bang-for-the-buck right now. Every dollar saved now is worth more than a dollar saved later. So keep eating ramen and living poor for a while so that you can live the fat life later.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: BrownTown


EDIT: work more overtime..

Mine was cut...no more pay!

(Well, no more workie it either! )