4000 arrests at risk over cops that were never gun certified

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Nebor

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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76
Wait, what how does their certification to carry a gun affect the validity of their arrests?
 
jlee

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,518
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106
Wow.

I'm a bit surprised that it would nuke the criminal cases, though - doesn't make sense that an improper firearms qualification would nullify their law enforcement authority. I'm not at all familiar with Florida, though.

Nebor said:
Wait, what how does their certification to carry a gun affect the validity of their arrests?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't get it. It's not like throwing a DUI case out because the breath test instrument operator's certification was invalid...whether or not their firearms qualification was technically valid should have no bearing on the actual arrest.
 
G

GMI

Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Seems like by not being ceritified, all those guys lost their police-status, police-powers. Hence the arrests being nullified. Could open themselves up to a whole can of worms civilly.
 
GodlessAstronomer

GodlessAstronomer

Lifer
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
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jlee said:
I'm a bit surprised that it would nuke the criminal cases, though - doesn't make sense that an improper firearms qualification would nullify their law enforcement authority. I'm not at all familiar with Florida, though.
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You can thank lawyers for that. Easily the worst people to ever walk the earth, each and every one of them.
 
M

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
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The only reason this should cause an arrest to be called into question is if the cop used his gun improperly. Like pulling a gun on someone for speeding, causing them to then try running from the cop and getting charges tacked on.
 
edro

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
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That's retarded.

The gun cert has no impact on whether or not the criminal is guilty.
Why couldn't the police department cover something simple like that up?
 
sdifox

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
97,490
16,455
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1. why is it possible for them to even be on the job, carrying guns, without being certified?
2. How does that change the arrests in any shape or form? Other than the possibility that because they did not have certification at that point in time they are not allowed to be working?
 
Scotteq

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
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Well - If said certification is a job requirement, then it's possible to argue the Officer should never have been on duty at all since the job requirements have not been met. Therefore whatever actions (s)he may have performed are invalid.

I fully agree it's a stinking pile of horse shit.
 
Jeeebus

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
901
126
edro said:
That's retarded.

The gun cert has no impact on whether or not the criminal is guilty.
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I agree with everyone that there's no reason this issue should affect prior arrests, but I did want to take issue with that statement.

If the police violate the 4th Amendment in conducting an illegal search or seizure (e.g. break into your house without a warrant and find you having sex with an alpaca in the bedroom) - it does not have any effect on whether you are guilty or not, but the fact that it was an illegal search means you're not going to jail... yet.
 
AyashiKaibutsu

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
How many arrests were his word vs their's? We're supposed to trust cops are honest, and this one obviously wasn't.
 
dabuddha

dabuddha

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
19,579
17
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GMI said:
Seems like by not being ceritified, all those guys lost their police-status, police-powers. Hence the arrests being nullified. Could open themselves up to a whole can of worms civilly.
Click to expand...

Call it a citizens arrest instead?
 
Z

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
quotes from people in the article seem to think its unlikey that they wont get a waiver to allow everything

it wasnt that the officers didnt pass the training, its the the trainer wasnt full qualified(and probably didnt mention it) to certify the officers
 
V

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
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dabuddha said:
Call it a citizens arrest instead?
Click to expand...


No CA in FL as I was thinking the same thing.

Just have a cop that was certified at the time look back over the file and sign off on it with the orignal arrest marked as a CA arrest. Weak but better than nothing if there was a CA rule in FL.
So without the CA option looks like a lot of cases will be dealed or dropped.

DC had to drop a LOT of DWIs as the machine was not certified for a LONG time.
 
dlock13

dlock13

Platinum Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,806
2
81
I'm wondering if not being certified is basically saying, 'you can shoot this guy if you have a certification, but if you aren't certified, then you are held accountable and legal actions will be taken.' So essentially, if they would have shot a person without being certified, it's basically as though they're illegal in doing so.

I obviously don't know if that's the case, but it kind of makes sense to me.
 
C

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
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GMI said:
Seems like by not being ceritified, all those guys lost their police-status, police-powers. Hence the arrests being nullified. Could open themselves up to a whole can of worms civilly.
Click to expand...

um how would that figure.. a person does not need a gun to place someone under arrest..
citizens arrest does work and does not require a firearm to perform.
 
Z

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
CVSiN said:
um how would that figure.. a person does not need a gun to place someone under arrest..
citizens arrest does work and does not require a firearm to perform.
Click to expand...

the article states that in FL, you have to pass the cert every 2 years, or you are not a sworn officer.
 
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