400 points and dropping

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

Yeap, with all the people bitching when FED/Treasury does something and tie up their hands, and all the people going around telling people how the sky is falling and scare consumers into not buying, companies not hiring, we are certainly going to have a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[racolvin]

The ultimate question for me is what will it take to "reign in" some of the creativity in investments in the future. Derivatives based on mortgages insured by companies that then leverage them all again .... too much economic freedom is just as bad as too little. There's got to be a limit on how many bets upon bets are allowed, just to limit the potential damage.

I mean if you go to a sports bookie and say "Gimme $50 on the Lakers and put it on my tab, since I don't have the cash on me" that's one thing. To have the bookie go upline to HIS bookie and say "Gimme $500 on the Lakers and put it on my tab", the potential damage gets larger if the bet turns out wrong. Picture that in the mortgage industry but by a factor of 10x or so. The number get huge and it turns out nobody can cover the bet without moving cash from other investments and it just ripples in too large of a pool.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

Well, bail-outs wouldn't have been necessary if not for the excesses that lead to this.

And unfortunately, a depression does not suck for everybody.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

Bullshit. If the banks and investment houses had to worry about repercussions they would have been more responsible and proactive to begin with.
Instead there are no repercussions and therefor no accountability. What me worry? The government will bail us out!! Yay!

I assure you the owners and ceos are not suffering in the slightest when the business fails. It's the taxpayer and the small investor who foot the bill.

 

[racolvin]

one article said that the chairman of Lehman saw his shares drop in value by $600 million .... oh poo, cry me a river when that means you're let with a remaining couple of billion...

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

Well, bail-outs wouldn't have been necessary if not for the excesses that lead to this.

And unfortunately, a depression does not suck for everybody.

Agreed.

 

[blackangst1]

I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

Bullshit. If the banks and investment houses had to worry about repercussions they would have been more responsible and proactive to begin with.
Instead there are no repercussions and therefor no accountability. What me worry? The government will bail us out!! Yay!

I assure you the owners and ceos are not suffering in the slightest when the business fails. It's the taxpayer and the small investor who foot the bill.

Yet more "free market" bullshit. This has nothing to do with "responsibility", as taking advantage of situations and hoodwinking the vulnerable, will always happen, regardless of the "repercussions". Irrational exhuberance is a human trait.

This shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have, if the fucking morons in Washington hadn't removed so many regulations and, instead, had beefed them up in appropriate places.

However, the cows are out of the barn. We can let the whole system fail to spite the fact that somebody left the door open, or we can try to corral them and try to mitigate future failures.

Ignorant people are too willing to let the system fail because they don't understand the repercussions themselves.

 

[GTKeeper]

I think we have a long way to go. So far total losses from CDOs are abou 250-300 billion worldwide. I read that some estimates point to around 1 trillion in potential losses. We are 1/3 of the way there!

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

People wanted this. They screamed "bailout is wrong, let 'em fail". Now they might actually learn the lessons our grandparents learned. There's nothing great about a depression, other than it sucks for everybody.

We're leading the world into the pits.

Bullshit. If the banks and investment houses had to worry about repercussions they would have been more responsible and proactive to begin with.
Instead there are no repercussions and therefor no accountability. What me worry? The government will bail us out!! Yay!

I assure you the owners and ceos are not suffering in the slightest when the business fails. It's the taxpayer and the small investor who foot the bill.

Yet more "free market" bullshit. This has nothing to do with "responsibility", as taking advantage of situations and hoodwinking the vulnerable, will always happen, regardless of the "repercussions". Irrational exhuberance is a human trait.

This shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have, if the fucking morons in Washington hadn't removed so many regulations and, instead, had beefed them up in appropriate places.

However, the cows are out of the barn. We can let the whole system fail to spite the fact that somebody left the door open, or we can try to corral them and try to mitigate future failures.

Ignorant people are too willing to let the system fail because they don't understand the repercussions themselves.

Agreed, free market is a utopian belief sort of like communism. It assumes everyone has everyone's best interests and plays by the rules..... but we all know thats a lie.

A true free market would let monopolies exist without regulation.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 43st
This is a minor considering the news that's being presented, imo.

Seriously. If anything, I thought the markets were reacting rather well all things considered.

Down 4%. Not too bad at all all things considered. I agree. This is hardly the OMGWTFBBQPANIC people think it is.

oh ok. So we've reached a bottom then?
Would you care to call the bottom?
We are going below 10,000.

Did I say that? I dont recall saying this is the bottom, nor do I see anywhere where I said we'd stay above 10k.

Lets try to stick to the subject ok?

 

[retrospooty]

The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: 43st
This is a minor considering the news that's being presented, imo.

Seriously. If anything, I thought the markets were reacting rather well all things considered.

Down 4%. Not too bad at all all things considered. I agree. This is hardly the OMGWTFBBQPANIC people think it is.

oh ok. So we've reached a bottom then?
Would you care to call the bottom?
We are going below 10,000.

God I hope so. I love buying at discount I was fortunate enough to invest a little extra after the crash in 2001 and Ive quadrupled that investment.

Yummy firesale!

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

Of course we will. We're just going to endure a lot of pain over the next 5 years paying for the last 8 years.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: retrospooty
The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

Of course we will. We're just going to endure a lot of pain over the next 5 years paying for the last 8 years.

how do you figure? The market recovered in half that time from the dot com bust...and that was FAR more tragic that...this. youre talking about the market, right?

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

Yes, but at what price? Getting an std along the way?

I don't know much about the stock market, so bear with me. I am assuming the reason why the index reached record levels in the recent years was in large part because of the over-inflated housing bubble. Since we are seeing a correction in the housing market...heading in the direction where it should be, naturally I am assuming the stock market is doing the same... So where am I getting with this? I wouldn't buy just yet because the index was already over-inflated to begin with. If you are expecting for it to recover to the levels it was, I wouldn't count on it. I would expect it to get back to around the pre-housing bubble, if not lower.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Vic
The good news are that oil is dropping like a stone as well, now $95 and change, and that bonds are way way up.

That's not good news. That's great news.

EDIT: This is what happens when you let bankers write banking laws. They only look at half the picture.

 

[mshan]

The XLF financial sector spyder is still above the July 15th low, for what it's worth...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Yet more "free market" bullshit.

This shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have, if the fucking morons in Washington hadn't removed so many regulations and, instead, had beefed them up in appropriate places.

The Fox has been in control of the Henhouse for 7 years what did people expect, live hens?

 

[mshan]

I thought the Bush administration just loaded government up with incompetent cronies whose job was to look the other way, rather than actually enforce any regulations?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Yet more "free market" bullshit.

This shouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have, if the fucking morons in Washington hadn't removed so many regulations and, instead, had beefed them up in appropriate places.

The Fox has been in control of the Henhouse for 7 years what did people expect, live hens?

I would add to LegendKiller's post that they are not fucking morons. That would indcate it wasnt on purpose. The right people got rich off of this - they arent morons, they are brilliant. To do all that, get away with it and have people think its just because they are stupid is pure brilliance.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mshan
I thought the Bush administration just loaded government up with incompetent cronies whose job was to look the other way, rather than actually enforce any regulations?

A lot of that too.

People who knock free markets as utopian always seem to forget that regulated markets are just as prone to corruption. In the end, all market systems rely upon the morality of human beings.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: retrospooty
The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

Of course we will. We're just going to endure a lot of pain over the next 5 years paying for the last 8 years.

how do you figure? The market recovered in half that time from the dot com bust...and that was FAR more tragic that...this. youre talking about the market, right?

To the market or the overall economy? The overall economy is much worse, exponentially worse, than what we had in 2000-2002.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: mshan
I thought the Bush administration just loaded government up with incompetent cronies whose job was to look the other way, rather than actually enforce any regulations?

If you're going to blame any President for this mess, blame Clinton. He and (the then Republican) Congress are the reasons why the banking laws are so one-sided today.