4 police officers shot serving no-knock warrant

[spidey07]

I'm really conflicted here and don't know what the law says. 4 narcotics officers serve a no-knock warrant and bust in, and get shot. On one side I have to stand with the home owner, people busting in and he defended his life/property. Then the other side of me says the officers HAD to have been yelling police, police, get down so that means they identified themselves and the homeowner should be charged.

There's a poll but that only has to do with charged for the shooting and nothing to do with whatever drugs they found in the house.

http://wcco.com/national/polic...rs.shot.2.1204786.html

"Deputy Chief Michael Mohel, who spoke with CBS station WCBS-TV Thursday morning, says members of the tactical unit were serving a no-knock narcotics and weapons warrant around 2:25 a.m. when suspect Jamie Gonzalez opened fire from the second floor"

 

[Brainonska511]

I'm sure they were wearing identifying clothing too that indicated they were law enforcement officers.

As for the homeowner, he was also a suspect in a drug raid - so there is potential that he was just trying to shoot back to not get caught and not truly "defending his property."

I'd want to hear more of the story before I make up my mind.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm really conflicted here and don't know what the law says. 4 narcotics officers serve a no-knock warrant and bust in, and get shot. On one side I have to stand with the home owner, people busting in and he defended his life/property. Then the other side of me says the officers HAD to have been yelling police, police, get down so that means they identified themselves and the homeowner should be charged.

There's a poll but that only has to do with charged for the shooting and nothing to do with whatever drugs they found in the house.

http://wcco.com/national/polic...rs.shot.2.1204786.html

"Deputy Chief Michael Mohel, who spoke with CBS station WCBS-TV Thursday morning, says members of the tactical unit were serving a no-knock narcotics and weapons warrant around 2:25 a.m. when suspect Jamie Gonzalez opened fire from the second floor"

Well, the definition of a no knock warrant is that the police DOESN'T identify itself. Please get your facts straight here.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
I'm sure they were wearing identifying clothing too that indicated they were law enforcement officers.

As for the homeowner, he was also a suspect in a drug raid - so there is potential that he was just trying to shoot back to not get caught and not truly "defending his property."

I'd want to hear more of the story before I make up my mind.

Tactical unit officers serving a no-knock warrant at 2:30am don't wear clothing that identifies them - that makes them a target. Still - if viewed from a second stroy window, the entry tactics and techniques used should have given it away.

 

[Genx87]

What exactly are the benefits of a no knock warrant? The only time I hear about them is when some cops get blown away.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

Why aren't the cops wearing better armor? There's no reason to not be prepared for scumbags to take shots at them.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What exactly are the benefits of a no knock warrant? The only time I hear about them is when some cops get blown away.

To surprise the suspects in hopes of subduing them quickly and avoiding a standoff from what I understand.

This doesn't always work as planned though.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbes
Why aren't the cops wearing better armor? There's no reason to not be prepared for scumbags to take shots at them.

Mohel says one officer was struck in the face upon entry, and another was shot in the foot. They've been taken to a hospital. Two other officers sustained minor injuries when they were shot in their bulletproof vests.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Genx87
What exactly are the benefits of a no knock warrant? The only time I hear about them is when some cops get blown away.

To surprise the suspects in hopes of subduing them quickly and avoiding a standoff from what I understand.

This doesn't always work as planned though.

But couldnt the same be accomplished with a non no knock warrant? You show up, break the door down and announce your presence. Or are knock warrants typically the kind you see on TV? Where they kindly knock on the door and inform the owner they have a warrant to search the premises?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm really conflicted here...

Ahhh, the touching dilemma of a gun crazy guy.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Genx87


But couldnt the same be accomplished with a non no knock warrant? You show up, break the door down and announce your presence. Or are knock warrants typically the kind you see on TV? Where they kindly knock on the door and inform the owner they have a warrant to search the premises?

They wouldn't be busting in for a search warrant. It was an arrest warrant.

If they didn't announce/identify themselves once inside the house then I'll say the homeowner shouldn't be charged. If they did, then yes.

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't see too much of a conflict. If someone busts down the door without identifying themselves, and the homeowner fires at them in self defense, I have no problem with the actions of the home owner, seems perfectly reasonable. If, however, the homeowner knows they are officers and still fires, then he should be charged.

 

[BarrySotero]

Guy knew they were cops and shot more than one. If Plaxcico Buress can be sent to jail for 2 years for shooting himself this obvious dirt bag should be charged.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Guy knew they were cops and shot more than one. If Plaxcico Buress can be sent to jail for 2 years for shooting himself this obvious dirt bag should be charged.

There you go making stuff up once more. Buress wasn't sent to jail for shooting himself. He was sent to jail for illegal weapons possession.

 

[Atreus21]

If it were my call, I'd say a warrant for your arrest overrules your right to defend your place of residence from police.

If a cop busted in my house without a warrant, I'd treat him like an intruder.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: Genx87
What exactly are the benefits of a no knock warrant? The only time I hear about them is when some cops get blown away.

To surprise the suspects in hopes of subduing them quickly and avoiding a standoff from what I understand.

This doesn't always work as planned though.

But couldnt the same be accomplished with a non no knock warrant? You show up, break the door down and announce your presence. Or are knock warrants typically the kind you see on TV? Where they kindly knock on the door and inform the owner they have a warrant to search the premises?

<--- Not a LEO, just my opinion.

From what I understand if it is deduced that the suspect could be armed or resistive then the amount of force needed for serving the warrant is increased.
In the case described in the article the warrant was being served on weapons and drug charges.
Meaning there was a good chance the suspect would be armed and willing to shoot. The no-knock warrant would allow them to go in, subdue and arrest before the suspect would have a chance to prepare and be able to shoot back.
Turns out the suspect was either awakened, startled and prepared to defend themselves against the intruders or already prepared for a police raid on his home.


Personally I don't like no-knock warrants due to the fact that if there is a mistake and an innocent homeowner may shoot or be shot by police for simply trying to defend their home.
On the other hand I understand why LEOs use the tactic to arrest suspects that would otherwise cause harm to the officers if given warning of their presence.
It leaves me really conflicted.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
I'm sure they were wearing identifying clothing too that indicated they were law enforcement officers.

As for the homeowner, he was also a suspect in a drug raid - so there is potential that he was just trying to shoot back to not get caught and not truly "defending his property."

I'd want to hear more of the story before I make up my mind.

Tactical unit officers serving a no-knock warrant at 2:30am don't wear clothing that identifies them - that makes them a target. Still - if viewed from a second stroy window, the entry tactics and techniques used should have given it away.

the fact he shot from a 2nd story window is the only reason i think he knew who they were and so should be charged.

In no knock warrents they don't yell who they are or charge in. they just bust in. if the guy was in his room when that happened and shot them then i would say ohwell sucks for the officers. But this is not what happened (from what i can get from the story anyway).

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: waggy
In no knock warrents they don't yell who they are or charge in. they just bust in. if the guy was in his room when that happened and shot them then i would say ohwell sucks for the officers. But this is not what happened (from what i can get from the story anyway).

That's no true at all.

"No Knock Warrants" mean just that -- they simply don't knock on the door before busting in vs. a normal warrant where they wait for the door to be opened after knocking and identifying themselves.

In BOTH cases though, they will loudly announce their identity as Police Officers as they stand in front of, or enter through, the door. They will also repeat their identity as they make their way through the home.

At no point will they serve a warrant, of any sort, without announcing their identity sometime during the entry. Unless, of course, they screw up and/or get overwhelmed the moment they enter... in that case, those lagging behind, if there are any, are still supposed to announce their identity.

Failure to announce their identity upon entry would result in justifiable resistance. There have even been cases wherein defendents claimed that they could not hear the officers identify themselves over the sound of gunfire, but the officers were trying to identify themselves the entire time. Nuts!

 

[bamacre]

If this is an arrest warrant, why not wait until the guy leaves the house, and bust him when he doesn't have a chance to fire back? Then go back and search the home afterward.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
If it were my call, I'd say a warrant for your arrest overrules your right to defend your place of residence from police.

If a cop busted in my house without a warrant, I'd treat him like an intruder.

How do you know the person breaking down your door has a warrant? Do you stand back and patiently let the door collapse, only to discover it's a criminal faking that he's a cop?

In most castle law states, there's no requirement to retreat. And according to the terms of those laws in most states, if you fear that someone breaking into your property is about to inflict physical harm on you or your loved ones, or is about to commit a felony, then you are allowed to use deadly force.

I personally don't agree with castle laws, but that's the way they're written.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
I'm sure they were wearing identifying clothing too that indicated they were law enforcement officers.

As for the homeowner, he was also a suspect in a drug raid - so there is potential that he was just trying to shoot back to not get caught and not truly "defending his property."

I'd want to hear more of the story before I make up my mind.

Tactical unit officers serving a no-knock warrant at 2:30am don't wear clothing that identifies them - that makes them a target. Still - if viewed from a second stroy window, the entry tactics and techniques used should have given it away.

the fact he shot from a 2nd story window is the only reason i think he knew who they were and so should be charged.

In no knock warrents they don't yell who they are or charge in. they just bust in. if the guy was in his room when that happened and shot them then i would say ohwell sucks for the officers. But this is not what happened (from what i can get from the story anyway).

I don't see anywhere where it says he shot from the 2nd story window. Just says from the 2nd floor. Sounds more like a stairway shooting.

 

[dahunan]

War on drugs FTW

 

[Deeko]

Oh come on - a narcotics/weapons no knock warrant in New Jersey. Shot 4 cops. Do any of you REALLY think he's a poor homeowner defending his home? Hell no. I'm sure the cops busted in, said this is the police blah blah blah, the guy stepped out into the staircase and started firing.

I can't believe anyone is actually on this scumbag's side.

 

[dahunan]

^^^ People wearing dark clothing do a home invasion home burglary on a paranoid drug dealer with guns ....

They really don't need to do things this way... is this really the best method

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^^ People wearing dark clothing do a home invasion home burglary on a paranoid drug dealer with guns ....

They really don't need to do things this way... is this really the best method

It's a good way to get a permanent conviction. You know how those damn liberal judges are.