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4 Lenmar AA Rechargeables + AA/AAA wall charger <$16 shipped

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Originally posted by: knightc2
Your MH-C204F is a decent charger as are most of the Mahas. It will condition cells which is a good thing to do every so often regardless of how long your batteries have been sitting. It doesn't however have the ability to do analysis for capacity nor can it charge single cells. I have many items that require 3 batteries that my older chargers would not do.

The Maha MH-C9000 and the LaCrosse BC-900 both do analysis which will tell you the actual capacity of the cells. They have LCD screens that show charging status and mah ratings of the batteries. The Maha seems to be the better of the two but is more expensive and seems to have some termination issues (fails to stop charging at lower charge rates) with older cells. The BC-900 also have some problems with melt downs but this has mostly been resolved with new firmware v33 I believe. I don't think these are necessarily for the casual user, but photography pros or anyone that relies on rechargeables everyday (and of course techno nerds that love to waste time and money like myself) might want to look into one of these.

On a side note, I did some quick research into the Rayovac hybrids and they seem like a pretty close match to the Eneloops. Long term testing is hard to do since you would need a whole year to test discharge rates, but initially they both look like they are nice cells.
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Excellent post!!

I did a lot of research yesterday and your points are right on the money. Subscribed to Candlepower Forums too, where there's many many threads on the subjects. The question of if and to what degree the v33 firmware on the BC-900 resolves the meltdown problems is rather uncertain in my mind. Lacrosse support asserts that it is identical to v32, but many believe that's untrue. Absent information from the company about this very alarming issue, it's difficult to come to a conclusion since the info floating around is just anecdotal AFAIK.
 
Most good quality chargers can charge low discharge cells like the Rayovacs and Eneloops. Any of the above mentioned ones should work fine. I would think even the Lenmar charger in the OPs post would charge them. I bought the MH-C800S not just for Eneloops, but because I needed a charger than could charge more than 4 cells at a time, charge individual and odd numbers of cells and one that was reasonably fast and did conditioning. So far it works pretty well. I do have a 4 cell Radio Shack smart charger and a couple of dumb timer controlled chargers that I use on occasion as well.

After reading the posts on Amazon about the Lacrosse charger the reviews look pretty good with the new firmware. I think the vast number of meltdown issues have been rectified with the new firmware.

Some older batteries and cells with high resistance will not terminate properly on certain chargers (although I am not sure if the Lacrosse chargers problem was because of non termination or something else). This can happen on almost all chargers that do not have a timer circuit or do not have a lower peak mah cutoff to stop the charging process. The Maha MH-C9000 has no timer and doesn't cutoff charging until it senses that the cell is charged, overheated or until it pumps 20000mah into the cell. The bottom line is I don't trust chargers and only charge when I will be around to check on it periodically. Even my MH-C800S has missed termination a couple of times although it does have a timer to stop charging.

Candlepower Forums is a great place to do research and I have learned a lot from them. The majority of people have had good luck with the Lacrosse and MH-C9000 chargers for the most part. I would say that the chargers that do analysis are not a necessity for most people. They do have that coolness factor that makes me want one but I don't need one. I decided to save my money for the time being and get the C800S as it meets my needs well. I have seen the Lacrosse down to $35 on Amazon from time to time and if I see it again at that price I might jump on that.
 
I have the Lacrosse charger and have been very happy with it since I've owned it about 1.5 years. I bought one for a family member and that has worked well for them as well. My first Lacross I bought worked fine for a week but then a power supply defect made the charger not come on unless you jiggled the wire at the end of the wall wart. All the Lacross chargers were the firmware V32 and no problems with melting or overcharging.

I also am here to vouche for the quality of the Eneloop batteries. I bought a set of 12 of the AAA's and AA's. Once they are charged they can be stored, which is why I was annoyed when I first was new to NIMH; I bought a bunch of batteries from Thomas Distributing and a few sets sat unused still in their blister pack for 6-10 months and when I went to charge them they were listed as NULL. I then had to use a "dumb" charger to trick it to start a charge, and then a refresh cycle (charge/discharge repeatedly) on the Lacross charger. The batteries did charge ok but they tended to discharge more rapidly then others that were cycled more regularly. Those specific batteries were Maha Powerex 2300 batteries and if those 4 are used in my camera, if left for a week it won't power on without recharging.

BEWARE of letting NIMH's sit to long discharged!
 
The Rayovacs and Eneloops are low self discharge cells. They operate much like other Nimh batteries except they can be stored for long periods of time without losing significant charge. Traditional Nimh cells will self discharge at a rate of 1%-3% per day depending on who you talk to and the quality/condition of the cells. Therefore they are not suitable to use in devices that are not used very often such as flashlights or remote controls. They are meant to be have the benefits of a rechargeable battery while maintaining the benefits that an alkaline battery has (long shelf life and low self discharge). In high drain devices that aren't sitting around for a long time there may be better choices since the Rayovacs and Eneloops are only rated at 2100 and 2000 mah respectively. The PowerEx cells at 2700 mah will last longer per charge and possibly do better in situations where current draw is higher such as the flash in your digital camera. Assuming your camera is not sitting in a drawer for 2 months before you use it, you would get more pictures out of fully charged PowerEx 2700s and possibly have a slightly faster flash regeneration time and shot to shot performance as well. I would assume that as the low self discharge cell technology gets better, the mah ratings will increase and they will eventually take over as the standard for nimh cells.
 
Originally posted by: SonicIce
Are the Rayovacs or Sanyos better than the 2700mah PowerEx ones for a digital camera?
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My Powerex 2300 mah's did miracles for my digital camera, a Samsung Digimax V3 which uses 2 AA's (well, that's what I use in it). It was close to useless before I got them. Now it takes 50 - 100 pictures or more. I was running some presumably 2000 mah NiMH, but either they were crap or they needed conditioning that I've never been able to give them. The camera wouldn't even turn on with the first NiMH batteries I put in it, which were rated 1800 mah.
 
I've used the Lightning Pack 4000N ($25+S/H) from RipVan1000 for years, in several different countries. It has a built in discharging/conditioning function (selectable with a switch) and it doesn't overheat the batteries when charging, in fact I think a review on one of the digital camera websites listed it as being the coolest charging quick-charger - at least at the time. I have NiMH batteries that are I think 6 years old and still working fine, I assume partially due to using this thing.

I recently bought some Eneloops and it charges them fine, though I've only had to charge them once so far. They are good batteries indeed. Despite being listed as 2000mAh, tests have shown them to be 2100 (says Thomas Distributing). They'll be used in my portable speakers, which often go months without any use - and then one day when the weather's nice, they'll be ready for action!
 
I bought the hybrids today (RAYOVAC). Thanks to this thread! I'll see how well they last unused compared to the Eneloops. Comparable mah for the AA's and the AAA's compared to the Eneloops as well. I got the bundled charger that came with 2AA and 2AAA. This charger heated up the batteries like no other! I've used many of dumb chargers before and even they didn't get the batteries this hot. Probably will be taking the charger back.
 
I have never had a dumb charger overheat batteries. Most of the time they take 8+ hours to complete so they don't push the cells very hard. Must be a fast dumb charger! Make sure to update us on how well the hybrids are compared to the Eneloops.
 
Originally posted by: AMD K9
I bought the hybrids today (RAYOVAC). Thanks to this thread! I'll see how well they last unused compared to the Eneloops. Comparable mah for the AA's and the AAA's compared to the Eneloops as well. I got the bundled charger that came with 2AA and 2AAA. This charger heated up the batteries like no other! I've used many of dumb chargers before and even they didn't get the batteries this hot. Probably will be taking the charger back.
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I can't vouch for the Rayovac charger. Never used it but curious about what batteries you were charging? Was it the Hybrids? If so, was it necessary because they should have had a good charge brand new? After all, these batteries haven't been on the market but a few months so anything you buy should be fairly new and "fresh". The ones I bought, went straight into my dslr without any need for a charge. I have now shot about 300 pics on this set and no indication they need charging (put them into service over a month ago).

BTW, it is not unusual for the batteries to become warm when charging...but they shouldn't become too hot to touch.

Regarding other questions on whether the Hybrids work well with digicams, my research indicated they should do as well or better than most NiMH rechargeables (Eneloops included) because the voltage is slightly higher, seem to recall around 1.30-1.35v. Many NiMH have a tough time doing 1.25v. Most digicams are designed to work with alkaline batteries which will output 1.5v when fresh. Although they are designed to be able to operate over range of voltages, if it gets too low, the camera will not function properly.
 
Most digicams aren't designed to work with alkalines anymore, it is well known by designers that alkalines can't hold their voltage up and depress as low or lower than NiMH within a few minutes so that 1.5V alkaline is actually at a lower voltage than a NiMH would be, until it's given a rest period. Granted this becomes more true the fewer cells there are in the 'cam, but are they still making them with 4 or more standard cells anymore?

It's not the upper voltage that matters necessarily, it's the low voltage, how low a particular model of cam can run down the cells and how many mAH the cells will provide till that point. A cell could start out higher but drain to a lower voltage faster, it's even expected with the lesser capacity cells. IF you are really that concerned about runtime, you'll have to continually charge up the newest breeds of faster-discharge NiMH and use them shortly thereafter for that runtime, or lithium.

Also, were your voltages of 1.3-1.35 for the hybrids from an actual voltage measurement? If it was you might do the same measurement for a NiMH cell as they too start out above 1.25V. For example I just grabbed my camera and took a reading on a pair of Eneloops in it. They were charged about 3 weeks ago, took about 25-30 pictures 2 weeks ago, and are currently sitting at 1.297V I actually expected them to be lower than this already, as my regular NiMH cells that were charged about 10 days ago (if not longer) but not used at all since then, are already down to 1.29V.

Silly me, once I got a bunch of Eneloops I stopped using the regular NiMH for most things but I still haven't quite dropped the habit of periodically recharging them just so they're ready to use (in devices that now don't need them since these devices have the Eneloops).
 
Originally posted by: mindless1
Also, were your voltages of 1.3-1.35 for the hybrids from an actual voltage measurement? If it was you might do the same measurement for a NiMH cell as they too start out above 1.25V. For example I just grabbed my camera and took a reading on a pair of Eneloops in it. They were charged about 3 weeks ago, took about 25-30 pictures 2 weeks ago, and are currently sitting at 1.297V I actually expected them to be lower than this already, as my regular NiMH cells that were charged about 10 days ago (if not longer) but not used at all since then, are already down to 1.29V.
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Well, since you asked, "No", I hadn't actually checked the voltage of the Hybrids myself but out of curiousity, I rummaged around and found an inexpensive digital VOM that had been given to me. The batteries in the dslr tested out at 1.28v (referenced earlier, put into service about 6 weeks ago, 300+ pics, still using the original factory charge). I'm impressed to say the least.

While I was at it, I also tested a set of Everready 2500 mAH that I charged about two months ago. Voltage was around .96 on average. I didn't try them in the camera but doubt that it would function at that low a voltage. In fairness to other NiMH batts, this particular version of Everready has to be about the worst battery for holding a charge.
 
Knight, I was assuming it is a dumb charger as it kept the batteries charging without going into trickle charge mode. Heck I thought even dumb chargers do this??? The batteries were absolutely HOT to the touch. I couldn't hold them in my hands for more than 5 seconds. Even charging batteries in my Lacross charger at 1800mah doesn't get cells this hot. Strange as the red lights never went out, and I wasn't going to leave the cells in to find out.

Mac, I was charging the new Hybrids that came in the package with the charger. I guess old habits die hard but I know it wasnt necessary. Mac I can also vouch for the same results with Energizer 2500mah NIMH batteries. You can charge them and then a week later the voltage is less than .98. I don't know how many times I charged 4 AA's (Energizers) for my camera only to use it a week later and the camera never powered on, without ever using the freshly charged batteries a week before. Hellacious discharge rate, ione of the worst, well besides the crappy batteries that come with the Lacross charger and any iPower batteries, they truly suck, oh and some earlier generation Nexcells
 
Were the batteries discharged when you charged them or were they just out the package? How long did they charge? If they were new or only slightly used then the charger probably overcharged them. My guess is (assuming that these were not dead when put in the charger) is that the batteries failed to terminate properly or the charger isn't smart enough to have a charge termination feature (-deltav, temperature or voltage) and they kept charging until the timer circuit stopped the charger. By then they were overcharged and overheated. Just a guess anyway.
 
Knight, they werent discharged. I opened the package and promptly put the batteries in the charger. I was mainly trying this since I figured since these are low discharge, they should probably (worst case scenario) be 95% charged. I figured I'd find out how long it would take before it was topped off, but in doing so I got sidetracked and an hour later I notice the thing was still charging... As hot as it was I took them out of the charger.
 
Knight, they werent discharged. I opened the package and promptly put the batteries in the charger. I was mainly trying this since I figured since these are low discharge, they should probably (worst case scenario) be 95% charged. I figured I'd find out how long it would take before it was topped off, but in doing so I got sidetracked and an hour later I notice the thing was still charging... As hot as it was I took them out of the charger.
 
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