4 Iraqi plane crash victims were air commandos from Florida

[conjur]

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv/article/0,2547,TCP_1213_3821644,00.html

Four victims of an Iraqi air force plane crash were stationed at Hurlburt Field in the Florida Panhandle, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

Military sources told the Northwest Florida Daily News that the four killed in Monday's turboprop crash were the first Hurlburt-based air commandos to die in the Iraqi war. Their names and unit have not been released.

An Iraqi pilot also died when the 7SL turboprop went down near the village of Jalula about 80 miles northeast of Baghdad.

The Tampa-based Central Command issued a statement saying the plane was on an operational mission. No other details have been released about the mission or the cause of the crash. The single-engine plane is normally outfitted to carry six people.

There was no immediate response to a message left early Wednesday at Central Command's news media office.

The 7SL was one of seven donated by the United Arab Emirates to the newly formed Iraqi air force. The planes can be used for reconnaissance or personnel transport.

The Air Force's 12,000 special operations airmen are rarely mentioned publicly for their contributions in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and the hunt for terrorists. Specific missions often are classified.

Hmm...where is Jalula?

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_cia_2003.jpg

Pretty close to the Iranian border, NE of Baghdad and near Khanaqin.

What is the purpose of the 7SL?

The planes can be used for reconnaissance or personnel transport.

Who was onboard?

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2005/nr20050601-3461.html

Maj. William Downs, 40, of Winchester, Va., assigned to the 6th Special Operations Squadron, Hurlburt Field, Fla.

Capt. Jeremy Fresques, 26, of Clarkdale, Ariz., assigned to the 23rd Special Tactics Squadron, Hurlburt Field, Fla.

Capt. Derek Argel, 28, of Lompoc, Calif., assigned to the 23rd Special Tactics Squadron, Hurlburt Field, Fla.

Staff Sgt. Casey Crate, 26, of Spanaway, Wash., assigned to the 23rd Special Tactics Squadron, Hurlburt Field, Fla.

What's been going on along the Iranian border? The Coming Wars

 

[CaptnKirk]

Hmm...where is Jalula?

That's in the middle of Chickenfarmistan.

Can you say 'Covert Operations, courtsey of your friendly neighborhood CIA' ?

 

[Genx87]

Oh look more conjecture.

You and Steeplerot should get a room.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh look more conjecture.

You and Steeplerot should get a room.

Please dispense with the trolling/thread-crapping. Anything to add of substance on the TOPIC?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh look more conjecture.

You and Steeplerot should get a room.

Please dispense with the trolling/thread-crapping. Anything to add of substance on the TOPIC?

How ironic

So based on the type of plane, your theory is we are invading Iran?

btw hate to be a stickler but floats dont seem to be a very valuable asset in the middle of a desert 😉

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh look more conjecture.

You and Steeplerot should get a room.

Please dispense with the trolling/thread-crapping. Anything to add of substance on the TOPIC?

How ironic

So based on the type of plane, your theory is we are invading Iran?

btw hate to be a stickler but floats dont seem to be a very valuable asset in the middle of a desert 😉

Where did I say we were invading Iran? Preparing for an invasion, yes, but that's nothing new. The U.S. has been sending commando units into Iran for many months.

And, btw,
http://www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/CA7SL/

shown with optional SuperFloats

Now, care to add any substance?

 

[Train]

BWUHAHAHHAA

Omg, a spy plane proves a coming war? whoooooo weee :laugh:

Just one thing left out, where exactly are the troops that are going to invade Iran? it took almost 2 years of build up before invading Iraq. Iran is three times as large. Are they going to paratroop in from planes launched from Missouri?

Saying we are going to Invade Syria is at least plausible since there are new bases opening up more torward the west, but Iran?? oh man....

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Train
BWUHAHAHHAA

Omg, a spy plane proves a coming war? whoooooo weee :laugh:

Just one thing left out, where exactly are the troops that are going to invade Iran? it took almost 2 years of build up before invading Iraq. Iran is three times as large. Are they going to paratroop in from planes launched from Missouri?

Saying we are going to Invade Syria is at least plausible since there are new bases opening up more torward the west, but Iran?? oh man....

Who says a full-scale invasion? That would be insane. Then again, this adminstration has exhibited nothing but mentally unstable decisions from day one. More likely, strategic bombing campaigns designed to take out Iranian fortifications and alleged nuclear weapons plants.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh look more conjecture.

You and Steeplerot should get a room.

Please dispense with the trolling/thread-crapping. Anything to add of substance on the TOPIC?

How ironic

So based on the type of plane, your theory is we are invading Iran?

btw hate to be a stickler but floats dont seem to be a very valuable asset in the middle of a desert 😉

Where did I say we were invading Iran? Preparing for an invasion, yes, but that's nothing new. The U.S. has been sending commando units into Iran for many months.

And, btw,
http://www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/CA7SL/

shown with optional SuperFloats

Now, care to add any substance?

So what purpose is there to prepare for a war if you arent going to conduct it? You are simply dancing on your own words now.

I was joking about the plane in case you didnt notice.

But if you are implying this is some buildup then we should be ready about ~2047 considering the capacity of that plane.

 

[conjur]

Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: conjur
...More likely, strategic bombing campaigns designed to take out Iranian fortifications and alleged nuclear weapons plants.

Unless Iran does something MAJOR to change policies torward them, I'd bet you a lot of money no bombs get dropped on Iran by the USA this year. I could use a little end of year bonus. You up?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Train
BWUHAHAHHAA

Omg, a spy plane proves a coming war? whoooooo weee :laugh:

Just one thing left out, where exactly are the troops that are going to invade Iran? it took almost 2 years of build up before invading Iraq. Iran is three times as large. Are they going to paratroop in from planes launched from Missouri?

Saying we are going to Invade Syria is at least plausible since there are new bases opening up more torward the west, but Iran?? oh man....

You know Train - for someone who claims to know so much about the Military
it is really quite apparent that in reality you don't really know shiit about it.

That specific 'custom built' airplane is made to land and take off from extremely
short unimproved fields - without runways, and climb over close in obstacles (trees) where larger or more conventional aircraft cannot function in that condition.

The norm in this instance would be for troops to repel from helicoptors and set charges
to drop trees to form a clearing so this plane can get into (or out of) & to set operatives
on the ground then get out leaving them to procede with their mission, or to go to
an area and extract those troops just immediately after the clearing is established.
It's a boot's on the ground spy-job that they're partaking in.

This was done all the time in Laos and Cambodia during the 'Nam days - even done to
establish larger LZ's in the jungles to bring in waves of helicopters full of troops.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
....

Was anything I said incorrect?

You really think we are setting up landing strips in Iran? And you think we need to drop special ops into IRAN to clear trees? Think about it;

CLEARING TREES

IN IRAN

TO LAND PLANES

Damn dude, your further off in la la land then conjur.
Ever watch any of the footage from the Iran-Iraq war? How many trees did you see in that area?

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: conjur
Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

Hate to bust your bubble, but show me the aircraft that can't be used for reconnaissance and it would probably look something like this. Seems like helicopters would be far more suited for recon work anyway if its the kind that requires low, stealthy flying and easy landing and takeoff.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
....

Was anything I said incorrect?

You really think we are setting up landing strips in Iran? And you think we need to drop special ops into IRAN to clear trees? Think about it;

CLEARING TREES

IN IRAN

TO LAND PLANES

Damn dude, your further off in la la land then conjur.
Ever watch any of the footage from the Iran-Iraq war? How many trees did you see in that area?

You have shown once again that you don't known what the hell you're talking about.

Exactly WHAT do you know about that area of Iraq / Iran where the borders meet ?
You don't think that there are places that covert operations are launched by STOL
planes that can land in unimproved areas without airfields ?
I told you what the capabilities of the plane is and how they CAN be used in a joint operation to insert or extract troops for covert operations - you think you know more ?
Time for you to grow up little boy - what branch of the service did you say you are in ?
Cub Scouts or Blue Birds ?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: conjur
Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

Hate to bust your bubble, but show me the aircraft that can't be used for reconnaissance and it would probably look something like this. Seems like helicopters would be far more suited for recon work anyway if its the kind that requires low, stealthy flying and easy landing and takeoff.

Choppers are rarely used for covert insertions - extractions in a hurry, yes . . . but not insertion operations.
They are TOO DAMN NOISEY - you can here them coming for miles.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

We could obtain far more effective and useful reconnaissance through satellite imagery...also the Kiowa Warrior, a small insertion and recon Army helicopter, is far better suited for recon missions, assuming of course that is what these soldiers were doing.

This was done all the time in Laos and Cambodia during the 'Nam days - even done to establish larger LZ's in the jungles to bring in waves of helicopters full of troops.

Except Iran is not a jungle...the tactics used during Vietnam to recon, establish or clear LZs were unique and specific to jungle warfare and air assault tactics.
The terrain in the Middle East has made armored assault a far more practical tactic.

Choppers are rarely used for covert insertions - extractions in a hurry, yes . . . but not insertion operations. They are TOO DAMN NOISEY - you can here them coming for miles.

The Kiowa is fairly quiet for a helicopter, and I can't imagine it being much noisier then the plane involved in the accident...Army Rangers and Delta Force have used the Kiowa as a small team insertion platform...your point is applicable to say a Blackhawk, or any heavy list insertion helicopter, because those tend to be noisy.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
....

Was anything I said incorrect?

You really think we are setting up landing strips in Iran? And you think we need to drop special ops into IRAN to clear trees? Think about it;

CLEARING TREES

IN IRAN

TO LAND PLANES

Damn dude, your further off in la la land then conjur.
Ever watch any of the footage from the Iran-Iraq war? How many trees did you see in that area?

You have shown once again that you don't known what the hell you're talking about.

says the guy who thinks western Iran is like a Laos jungle that needs to be cleared. Oh man, still laughing about that one.

Exactly WHAT do you know about that area of Iraq / Iran where the borders meet ?

that trees are pretty scarce, thats for damn sure, epsecially any concentration of trees that would require a clearing for a landing strip. The region is mostly moutainous.

You don't think that there are places that covert operations are launched by STOL
planes that can land in unimproved areas without airfields ?

never said that, but what would be the point in western Iran?

I told you what the capabilities of the plane is and how they CAN be used in a joint operation to insert or extract troops for covert operations - you think you know more ?

I know its been a hell of a long time since a single prop plane has been used to insert troops, especially special ops troops. Go read about the initial recon missions in Afghan, scout snipers were inserted via airdrop at extremely high altitudes, so high that you couldnt even hear the plane from the ground. The landed at night and buried thier chutes.

Time for you to grow up little boy - what branch of the service did you say you are in ?
Cub Scouts or Blue Birds ?

umm k, way to be a badass, ON THE INTERNET :roll:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

We could obtain far more effective and useful reconnaissance through satellite imagery...also the Kiowa Warrior, a small insertion and recon Army helicopter, is far better suited for recon missions, assuming of course that is what these soldiers were doing.

You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Perhaps you missed the "reconnaissance" portion in the article.

We could obtain far more effective and useful reconnaissance through satellite imagery...also the Kiowa Warrior, a small insertion and recon Army helicopter, is far better suited for recon missions, assuming of course that is what these soldiers were doing.

You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick!

Oh were these guys going to wander the streets of Iran now?

I checked their names and while it isnt concrete proof, I have a feeling they just wouldnt have fit in.

 

[conjur]

:roll:


By meeting with Iranians in the country. Much the same way as the ROCKSTARS obtained intelligence prior to the Iraq invasion.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick

Really depends on the nature of the mission...you can conduct comprehensive terrain analysis and OPFOR deployment arrays through satellite imagery.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: conjur
...You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick!

You deduced that thier mission was to get face to face intelligence, and all you had to go on was thier MOS's and the type of plane they were in? holy shiite batman, THAT'S a neat trick.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: conjur
...You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick!

You deduced that thier mission was to get face to face intelligence, and all you had to go on was thier MOS's and the type of plane they were in? holy shiite batman, THAT'S a neat trick.

Don't question Conjur, he has over 47,000 posts on Anandtech, that makes him an expert.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: conjur
...You're going to get man-on-the-street intelligence from a satellite? Wow. Neat trick!

You deduced that thier mission was to get face to face intelligence, and all you had to go on was thier MOS's and the type of plane they were in? holy shiite batman, THAT'S a neat trick.

See my sig for details.