4 inch iPhone according to WSJ

[Eug]

The argument for 1152 x 640 is that it would keep the same width, but would just make the phone longer. Apps built for 960x640 would still run at 960x640, but just with black bars at the top and bottom.

That's the argument anyway. I don't buy into argument however. It's much simpler just to keep everything at 960x640.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

The argument for 1152 x 640 is that it would keep the same width, but would just make the phone longer. Apps built for 960x640 would still run at 960x640, but just with black bars at the top and bottom.

That's the argument anyway. I don't buy into argument however. It's much simpler just to keep everything at 960x640.

then it would no longer be 300+ ppi.

 

[dagamer34]

The argument for 1152 x 640 is that it would keep the same width, but would just make the phone longer. Apps built for 960x640 would still run at 960x640, but just with black bars at the top and bottom.

That's the argument anyway. I don't buy into argument however. It's much simpler just to keep everything at 960x640.

As a developer, messing with the aspect ratio means an entire recode of games (which will never get updated) so black bars everywhere.

There is no good solution here, so I think they might as well bite the bullet and pick a resolution they would like to last for the next 5 years while maintaining the same aspect ratio. @2x assets stretched will look a bit fuzzy, but it won't be that bad.

 

[Eug]

then it would no longer be 300+ ppi.

Like I said, 300 ppi is a completely arbitrary number.

Yeah, 200 ppi would be too low, but 288 ppi would be perfectly fine.

EDIT:

That said, in the past I'd been wishing for a 3.8 - 3.9" iPhone, because it'd still be noticeably bigger than the current iPhone, with bigger text if the 960x640 resolution were kept, but it'd also be easier to keep the iPhone relatively narrow and it would keep the pixel density up.

4" or 288 ppi IMO is probably as low a pixel density as Apple would be willing to go on a smartphone (although the iPad 3's "retina" screen is only 264 ppi). If you went to 4.3" at 960x640, then the pixels would become too big (268 ppi). Plus the phone itself would simply too awkward to use with one-hand.

BTW, for all we know, the phone might be 3.95", which Apple would call "4 inch", and it would be 292 ppi.

 

[kaerflog]

3.83" if they want to keep > 300 ppi 😉

and it would be hard if they wanted to change the resolution of 960x640. every resolution they change they have to make sure its auto-backwards compatible w/ all the other apps

w/ the 2g/3g/3gs, it was 480x320
going to 4/4s, it was a 2:1 increase, just have to upscale it 2x (from 480->960 and 320->640)

same thing w/ ipad (1024x768->2048x1536), nobody had to redesign anything

a lot of apps were already "ipad3 ready", since they already had the 2x scaling built in before release

Yeah, this is the reason why I don't think the IP5 will increase in resolution.
If Apple decide to increase the resolution, it will have to be double and we all know Apple can't do 1920x1280 right now.
Apple will most likely release a 4" 960x640 phone and let that ride for the next 2 years.
Then in fall 2014, release 4.3" 1920x1280 IP7 that will be revolutionary.
By that time the technology will allow Apple to release a phone with that capabilities.
Apple can then call this "Super Retina Plus"

 

[Bman123]

Pinch to zoom issues really? Its not like you have to have your fingers on the corners to do it. I use my vibrant (4inch screen) one handed, and pinch to zoom is not a issue with one hand

 

[Eug]

Yeah, this is the reason why I don't think the IP5 will increase in resolution.
If Apple decide to increase the resolution, it will have to be double and we all know Apple can't do 1920x1280 right now.
Apple will most likely release a 4" 960x640 phone and let that ride for the next 2 years.
Then in fall 2014, release 4.3" 1920x1280 IP7 that will be revolutionary.
By that time the technology will allow Apple to release a phone with that capabilities.
Apple can then call this "Super Retina Plus"

A 1920x1280 resolution on even a 4.6" phone would be pointless, at over 500 ppi. Plus, the phone would be too big. How about a smaller phone, say 4.3"? It'd be even more pointless, at 537 ppi, and the phone would still be a bit too big IMHO.

960x480 is good for up to about 4". If they went significantly beyond 4" I think they'd increase the resolution.

 

[AkumaX]

Yeah, this is the reason why I don't think the IP5 will increase in resolution.
If Apple decide to increase the resolution, it will have to be double and we all know Apple can't do 1920x1280 right now.
Apple will most likely release a 4" 960x640 phone and let that ride for the next 2 years.
Then in fall 2014, release 4.3" 1920x1280 IP7 that will be revolutionary.
By that time the technology will allow Apple to release a phone with that capabilities.
Apple can then call this "Super Retina Plus"

You mean "resolutionary" 😉

But if they do decide to make a phone bigger than 4" in 2015 or so, it would still have to retain the 3:2 ratio. Maybe a 4.3" phone @ 1280x854?

 

[Eug]

You mean "resolutionary" 😉

But if they do decide to make a phone bigger than 4" in 2015 or so, it would still have to retain the 3:2 ratio. Maybe a 4.3" phone @ 1280x854?

358 ppi? And why would it have to retain the 3:2 AR?

If they did keep that 3:2 ratio, at 4.3" an 1152x768 resolution would suffice, at 322 ppi.
At 4.6", that 1152x768 resolution would be 301 ppi.

 

[AkumaX]

358 ppi? And why would it have to retain the 3:2 AR?

If they did keep that 3:2 ratio, at 4.3" an 1152x768 resolution would suffice, at 322 ppi.
At 4.6", that 1152x768 resolution would be 301 ppi.

1152x768? I could go with that 🙂

And why 3:2 AR? Because its apple? For backwards compatibility with its existing ecosystem?
Well, I suppose they could do 4:3 (1024x768), and just use iPad apps hahaha

 

[WelshBloke]

Pinch to zoom issues really? Its not like you have to have your fingers on the corners to do it. I use my vibrant (4inch screen) one handed, and pinch to zoom is not a issue with one hand

So you can hold a phone, rotate an image, and pinch to zoom all at the same time with one hand?

How many fingers do you have?

 

[kaerflog]

I agree that doubling the current resolution to 1920x1280 is an overkill but how do you suppose Apple make the next bump in resolution compatible with the all the old apps ??

 

[Eug]

I can pinch-zoom with one hand:

1. Put phone in hand, with back of iPhone resting on three fingers - middle to pinky fingers.
2. Put side/joint of index finger in top corner. It stays stationary there.
3. Swipe thumb to zoom. Swipe thumb toward index finger to zoom out. Swipe away from index finger to zoom in.

However it's pretty awkward so I rarely do that.

I agree that doubling the current resolution to 1920x1280 is an overkill but how do you suppose Apple make the next bump in resolution compatible with the all the old apps ??

The good news is that 4" will be sufficient for quite some time. If it needs to go above 4", it's a different usage scenario, as it would have a different usability class as compared to a standard smartphone that you carry everywhere with you and make phone calls on. Seriously, how many people do you see walking around with 5" phones? I saw some guy with one of those Samsung 5.3" devices and it was simply ridiculous. Awkward for phone calls and awkward for general usage.

If they do really need to fill that niche of the 4.3+ inch phones, it will be in a somewhat different class, and it could make sense to create a new resolution at that time... a few years from now.

 

[Steelbom]

There's a lot of variables this time around, but this is what I think:

4 - 4.4 inch 1440x960 display (maybe even IGZO)
A6 (32nm) w/ quad-core Cortex A9 and tri-core SGX543 graphics
1GB RAM, 4G LTE, 1-2MP HD FaceTime camera, and a bigger battery

Even with all four CPU cores and all three GPU cores pegged at max (such as in a heavy duty game where it would do so continuously) it wouldn't use too much more power than the existing A5, and for almost every other task it'd use less power than the A5, because of Samsung's 32nm High-K metal gate.

1440x960 on a 4 inch display is 432 PPI, and at 4.4 inches 393 PPI, and 960x640 on a 4 inch display is 288 PPI. I'm not sure Apple will accept such a low PPI, so I do expect an increase in resolution, and 1440x960 is the next possible step up from 960x640 for maintaining complete compatibility with existing apps -- it's the same process as 480x320>960x640.)

 

[Eug]

1440x960 doesn't maintain compatibility with 960x640 apps.

If you don't accept 288 ppi, then perhaps you should predict a 3.9" iPhone. Thats 296 ppi.

 

[Steelbom]

1440x960 doesn't maintain compatibility with 960x640 apps.

If you don't accept 288 ppi, then perhaps you should predict a 3.9" iPhone. Thats 296 ppi.

Yes it does, it's exactly the same process as what happened from 480x320 to 960x640. All iPhone apps are coded for 480x320 points -- there's no 960x640 apps, so any multiple of 480x320 will allow for perfect scaling. All developers would have to do is provide higher resolution assets to take full advantage of the display.

 

[dagamer34]

Yes it does, it's exactly the same process as what happened from 480x320 to 960x640. All iPhone apps are coded for 480x320 points -- there's no 960x640 apps, so any multiple of 480x320 will allow for perfect scaling. All developers would have to do is provide higher resolution assets to take full advantage of the display.

Of course, the question becomes, would Apple use 1x or 2x assets for apps that don't have 3x assets? 1x looks crappy and 2x needs to be scaled by a non-integer factor.

 

[Steelbom]

Of course, the question becomes, would Apple use 1x or 2x assets for apps that don't have 3x assets? 1x looks crappy and 2x needs to be scaled by a non-integer factor.

They'd use 2x assets as it would undoubtedly look better than 1x even though they are being upscaled by a non-integer factor.

 

[akugami]

So boring. Apple should have gone balls out with a 4.5 or larger screen.

Why? Just curious what you use your phone for that requires such a large screen. I've played around with a Samsung Note as well as some 4.5" Android phones, it's simply too large for comfortable day to day use.

If the next iPhone came out and it was still 3.5", would you guys switch? I doubt it.

Depends. What features and updates are there? Screen size is just one factor out of many that affects my purchasing decision. For the iPhone 4S, Siri was not enough to make me upgrade. Let's see what Apple brings to the table with the new iPhone.

 

[AkumaX]

how about a 1.25x asset? 1200x800?

 

[Steelbom]

how about a 1.25x asset? 1200x800?

For app compatibility, the ratio must be preserved and the new resolution must be a multiple of 480x320.

 

[Eug]

Yes it does, it's exactly the same process as what happened from 480x320 to 960x640. All iPhone apps are coded for 480x320 points -- there's no 960x640 apps, so any multiple of 480x320 will allow for perfect scaling. All developers would have to do is provide higher resolution assets to take full advantage of the display.

You seem to be suggesting that Apple will continue to target 480x320 forever. I am not a programmer, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Given that all of Apples iPhones and iPod touches are now 960x640 retina, it would seem they may obsolete 480x320 sooner rather than later. iOS 6 is just around the corner. And if not iOS 6, then iOS 7...

 

[dagamer34]

For app compatibility, the ratio must be preserved and the new resolution must be a multiple of 480x320.

If the goal is to use a 3x screen resolution of 1440x960, they might as well punt until they can make such a screen cheaply to stick in an iPhone (which will not happen this year however). And at that point, for a 4" display, we're talking about 424 DPI which hasn't been readily done yet.

We have to keep in mind that making something smaller (thus increasing DPI) is hard, but making a screen larger is really only a matter of yields (reducing the number of defects per square area to get more larger working screens).

However, should Apple change the screen resolution to something else, it will be for the next 5 years. Having said that, it's not a change that should be made lightly because developers will frown if there's another resolution and aspect ratio change 2 years from now.

 

[Steelbom]

You seem to be suggesting that Apple will continue to target 480x320 forever. I am not a programmer, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Given that all of Apples iPhones and iPod touches are now 960x640 retina, it would seem they may obsolete 480x320 sooner rather than later. iOS 6 is just around the corner. And if not iOS 6, then iOS 7...

There would be no benefit whatsoever to changing it to 960x640 and it would have plenty of drawbacks, such as not being able to code an app for the 3GS and lower, and only being able to increase the iPhone's resolution by multiples of 960x640.

An iPhone app is coded for 480x320 points, and that's how much screen real estate you have on every iPhone. The iPhone 4+ and iPod touch 4+ may have a 960x640 display, but internally the resolution is still 480x320.

To summarise:

An iPhone app is essentially resolution agnostic as long as that resolution is in multiples of 480x320. When you create an iPhone app, all you do is supply higher resolution content for the 'retina' displays, and iOS handles everything.

If the goal is to use a 3x screen resolution of 1440x960, they might as well punt until they can make such a screen cheaply to stick in an iPhone (which will not happen this year however). And at that point, for a 4" display, we're talking about 424 DPI which hasn't been readily done yet.

We have to keep in mind that making something smaller (thus increasing DPI) is hard, but making a screen larger is really only a matter of yields (reducing the number of defects per square area to get more larger working screens).

However, should Apple change the screen resolution to something else, it will be for the next 5 years. Having said that, it's not a change that should be made lightly because developers will frown if there's another resolution and aspect ratio change 2 years from now.

I highly doubt Apple would change the screen resolution to something that isn't a multiple of 480x320 and in doing so break compatibility with over 600,000 iPhone apps. And it may be possible to have such a high PPI with an IGZO display.

 

[Eug]

There would be no benefit whatsoever to changing it to 960x640 and it would have plenty of drawbacks, such as not being able to code an app for the 3GS and lower

I don't think Apple gives a damn about breaking compatibility with the 3GS and lower.

Like I said, support for the 3GS and non-retina touches will be gone relatively soon. Possibly with the release of iOS 6, and definitely with the release of iOS 7.

The 3G can't even run iOS 5 as it is, so I think users see the writing on the wall, that apps built in the era of iOS 6 (or 7) may never run on the 3GS.