4 Gigahertz 16 bit CPU (Hypothetical)

Sep 15, 2003
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Hypothetical Question.

Is someone produced a 4Gigahertz 16 bit CPU tommorow and priced it the same as the top end 32 bit CPU's. Would you buy the 16Bit CPU?

Lets say the 16 Bit CPU runs 10% faster at 16 bit applications than the 32 bit CPU?
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So Why would you buy a 32 bit CPU even if it winds up 5%-10% faster than a 64 bit CPU at just 32 bit applications? Even if they are priced around the same?
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So who is going to be dumb enough to buy a 32 bit processor today knowing Microsoft and Linux are backing 64 bit applications? Not to mention the many other vendors that are going to be releasing AMD 64 bit applications in the beginning of next year?

Why buy a 32 bit CPU? Looking for Honest answers.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Once again a lame thread!! What a terrible comparison!!! The difference is 32bit is mainstream with many windows based OSes available and almost all programs geared for it. So saying or presumming this is the same as the 64bit athlon is naive....This may be true but not likely for 2 years to make this same comparison. Until windows 64bit is available in the masses and most of the proggies ppl use are set for them this is a mute point. Many of us here change computers quite frequently and I can likely get two more cpu upgrades in before I needed or could use the 64bit applications....

 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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I understand your point, and for the average consumer looking for a new system this X-mas, it's my opinion that they would be best served to go 64bit. However, we the enthusiast community upgrade far more often so the 32bit capabilities of a CPU is the most compelling reason to buy presently. By the time there's a significant number of 64bit windows based software and OS available, most of us will be picking whatever the best price/performance CPU at that time is, but to buy now in anticipation of capabilities a full year from now is just plain silly as most won't be using the same CPU a year from now regardless.

As has been reiterated countless times, Which platform to buy right now is dependent on your most essential needs. A64 is an excellent choice for gamers while P4 is an excellent choice for multitasking/encoding. I still don't think you can go wrong with either and all the negativity about Intel or AMD from the opposing "camp" is analogous to the Dr. Suess Butter Battle Book ;)
 
Sep 15, 2003
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Given the price of an Opteron is in direct comparison of Intel's 32 bit offering means you are getting the 64 bit option FREE.

Its like getting a P4 with SSE3 (If Existed). Somewhere down the line you will get to enable that functionality and enjoy the benifits of it.

As to 32 bit being mainstream. 16 bit to 32 bit met the same reaction and now everything is 32 bit. The same applies to moving toward 64 bit. Support has been announced and more applications will be arriving soon. Some games are in their final stages of being AMD 64 ready.

And it wont cont you a cent more than do I buy the 32 bit CPU for 400.00 or the 64 bit CPU for 400.00? Hmmm.

Around October 26 that question will be.
do I buy the 32 bit CPU for 300.00 or the 64 bit CPU for 300.00? Hmmm.
 

cow123

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Apr 6, 2003
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oops, didnt read all of it, assumed what came after your ----- separator was your sig
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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All you've told us is which side you like your bread buttered on
rolleye.gif
 
Sep 15, 2003
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If you have read my other posts you know I represent the best weather it be Intel or AMD.

Right now I am searching for real reasons that anyone would buy a 32 bit CPU when a 64 bit version equivelent in 32 bit performance is available for the same price.

The only rational thought for buying a 32 bit CPU above 300.00 is ignorance.

If Itanium provided as good a performance on the 32 bit scale then it might be a different story.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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I would still have to give credit to Intel on Itanium. Great architecture and a bold move to attempt to abandon the slower 32, 16, 8 bit code still found in all CPU's today. It would have worked if AMD was not around. In fact when HP and Intel got together on the Itanium they didnt expect AMD to compete and didnt see them as a threat.

AMD's gamble is paying off. Intel is in a panic and doing what it can before Itanium is a total flop and AMD is the one holding all the cards.

Intel isnt dying off any time soon its just that AMD is leading the way to 64 bit instead of Intel. Intel will be back but 64 bit is on the move and fast. Intel wont have a competitor for at least a year plus. Were so used to Intel being the king it is hard to believe david may have beaten goliath.

Sorry those comment will ruffle many feathers but its not really bad thing at least the government cant drag Intel into suit claiming they are a monopoly again.

Dont count out VIA (CYRIX). Certainly not of the top end. They may not be cutting edge but most consumers dont need bleading edge performance. They need a cheap quiet pc they can surf, compose a document, balance their checkbook and get an e-mail on. This is why the PC revolution died off around the 300Mhz mark is because most people simply dont need the power beyond that. They dont do MP3 or Video encoding or play intense video games. Its only us geeks and server field that is allways looking for more power. If they can just up the FPU on them just a little without increasing the wattage then a lot more of those puppies are going to be put into machines.

Intel is in a very bad position. Its not good to be too big in a market that has been slowing down. Meanwhile AMD is still small in for them is a growing market becuase they were never the majority holder especially in servers. This is good for AMD bad for Intel. AMD is chewing them up on the top and bottom. Not in the middle.

Dont think in the NOW. Think 6 months to a year. When the 32 bit OS showed up. Within a year everyone I knew was 32bit. Now that 64is here it wont be 6 months before I am 64 all the way.
 

snyderjw

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Sep 19, 2003
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Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038

As to 32 bit being mainstream. 16 bit to 32 bit met the same reaction and now everything is 32 bit. The same applies to moving toward 64 bit.

You know, I'm dying to get an Athlon64, so don't get me wrong... but if you really want to make the comparison, then take a look at history:

1.) The first x86's with 32 bit functionality were the 386 chips, released on October 17, 1985. They debuted at 16Mhz.

2.) The first widely accepted 32 bit operating system with a significant ported application base for the consumer was Windows 95, released in August 1995, with minimum requirements of a 486DX2/66

IF HISTORY REPEATS, and I'm not saying that it will, then by the time "everything is 64 bit" you won't be able to run it with a first generation processor.
 

Duvie

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Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: Ticktanium2038
I would still have to give credit to Intel on Itanium. Great architecture and a bold move to attempt to abandon the slower 32, 16, 8 bit code still found in all CPU's today. It would have worked if AMD was not around. In fact when HP and Intel got together on the Itanium they didnt expect AMD to compete and didnt see them as a threat.

AMD's gamble is paying off. Intel is in a panic and doing what it can before Itanium is a total flop and AMD is the one holding all the cards.

Intel isnt dying off any time soon its just that AMD is leading the way to 64 bit instead of Intel. Intel will be back but 64 bit is on the move and fast. Intel wont have a competitor for at least a year plus. Were so used to Intel being the king it is hard to believe david may have beaten goliath.

Sorry those comment will ruffle many feathers but its not really bad thing at least the government cant drag Intel into suit claiming they are a monopoly again.

Dont count out VIA (CYRIX). Certainly not of the top end. They may not be cutting edge but most consumers dont need bleading edge performance. They need a cheap quiet pc they can surf, compose a document, balance their checkbook and get an e-mail on. This is why the PC revolution died off around the 300Mhz mark is because most people simply dont need the power beyond that. They dont do MP3 or Video encoding or play intense video games. Its only us geeks and server field that is allways looking for more power. If they can just up the FPU on them just a little without increasing the wattage then a lot more of those puppies are going to be put into machines.

Intel is in a very bad position. Its not good to be too big in a market that has been slowing down. Meanwhile AMD is still small in for them is a growing market becuase they were never the majority holder especially in servers. This is good for AMD bad for Intel. AMD is chewing them up on the top and bottom. Not in the middle.

Dont think in the NOW. Think 6 months to a year. When the 32 bit OS showed up. Within a year everyone I knew was 32bit. Now that 64is here it wont be 6 months before I am 64 all the way.


Exactly...6-12 months from now!!! Within that time amd will change sockets ending some boards upgradeability. I tend to look at things as an entusiast. MOst here keep up with the "jones" and always have new gear. we upgrade here to fast, and with that no one really needs to rush fast and jump on that train yet.

1) Wait for prices to come down a bit.
2) Wait for nforce3 and other mobos to come out and work through the bugs.
3) Wait for socket change amd will hold for awhile
4) wait for 64bit windows OS (sorry I don't run Linux)
5) Wait for 64bit to be adopted by much of the software or the advantage will not be there.

I will hopefully have a 2.6 or 2.8c by the end of the month and then I will likely be set for 4-6 months. In that time I will reasses the state of the a64 and fx models and determine then....TOO EARLY!!!
 
Sep 15, 2003
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Good post Duvie. Thats the kind of reply I can respect. Someone who has a need for a good CPU now but is willing to upgrade again in 6 months.

I suspect you are basing your purchase on the current price of the P2.4C compared to making the commitment to Opteron pricetag.

For those looking for a little more performance or for a server I still have to weigh in with the Opteron being the best choice.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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I can agree with that since the xeons are not the best price and from the test I saw the opteron is better...Yes I agree the bang for the buck is there...However I am not skilled in servers...

I am looking more at the cost of the processors...I usually do not like to spend more then 200 bucks for a cpu. That leaves me with a handful of bartons and most of the xp line. However I and I think most of us here realize the p4c line is better then those chips. i can really use the HT, trust me....I have been like made for the last 5 days converting all of my divx titles to mpeg2 dvd format and all of that encoding, muxing, and authoring takes time and 100% cpu cycles....I want to be able to do more at the same time. As my needs are in 6-12 months is anyones guess.....If 64bit OS is out and 64bit optimization in encoding programs are there and the price is more affordable I am there!!!
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
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Right now I am searching for real reasons that anyone would buy a 32 bit CPU when a 64 bit version equivelent in 32 bit performance is available for the same price.

Just because 64 bits is the latest...doesnt make it the greatest. (Adopting at the forefront is not always the wisest investment)

Reasons to wait...
1)There are tons of 32bit processors which are way cheaper than the 64bit AMD, and although they arent quite as impressive in performance...the avarage joe wont notice any difference by not buying the absolute fastest thing available...except in his wallet.
2)The enthusiasts realize there are other items which make more sense to update to get more speed out of a machine than the CPU. Spend money on faster HDDs (SCSI or SATA), RAID, RAM, VideoUpgrade, Better Cooling for overclocking.
3)By the time 64bit processing makes mainstream, there will be 2-3 revisions, some which make your 1st generation latest and greatest "obsolete".
Intel will probably have its own competing 64bit architecture.
4)There will be backward compatibility issues or other unforseen problems. (Drivers, software, etc)
5)Prices will drop.



Question for AMD fans...
I noticed everyone talking about Opterons as the potential target for CPU's...If im not mistaken this is a server chip...
Why would you take the opteron over the athlon 64 for your desktop? Wouldnt you take a gaming performance hit for that?
Need more details on Athlon 64 vs Opteron 64.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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Couldnt have said it better myself Duvie.

Im Still sticking with my price performance method.
Got 100 CPU buy a Barton 2500+
Got 200 Get a P4 2.4C
Got more than 400 get an Opteron.

October 26th I expect that to be 300.00 for Opteron.

If Opteron Could come within the price range of the P2.4C then that would defiantely kill Intel. Until then Intel will hold the middle ground on the 32 bit platform.

You made the right choice Duvie. Enjoy. Thanks for being open and honest.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
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there will be no backward compatiblity problems, with amd at least. The processor is specifically designed to run 32 and 64 bit stuff right next to each other seamlessly. Socket 939 will be the last athlon 64 typoe socket for a while, about 2 years at least. So wait for 939, then have fun. And intel wont have a 64 bit "good" cpu for a while, they are already working on presscott and tejas. Which both will have problems because of there memory limits. 4Gb of ram will be tiny 4 years from now.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
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People should be forced to read the 64bit faq before they are allowed to start a thread like this.

You obviously have no idea what bittiness is and have an overinflated idea of the value of 64bittiness.
 

Mday

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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problem is, 32bit processors run 64bit programs slower than 64bit processors. the hammer series of processors from amd will be able to run 32bit programs faster than existing 32bit processors.

anyway

i dont have many 16bit programs anymore. most common 16 bit programs have been made 32bit. there may still be some program out there that doesnt have a 32bit varient, but WHO CARES.

would you drive a brand new mercedes that can go 200 miles per hour on a 30 mile street. or an old pinto that can go (i forgot what speed) on a 40 mile street.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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Originally posted by: dguy6789
And intel wont have a 64 bit "good" cpu for a while, they are already working on presscott and tejas. Which both will have problems because of there memory limits. 4Gb of ram will be tiny 4 years from now.
I doubt I'm going out on a limb when I say that you will not have the same processor in four years that you have today.

 

Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: Mday
problem is, 32bit processors run 64bit programs slower than 64bit processors. the hammer series of processors from amd will be able to run 32bit programs faster than existing 32bit processors.

anyway

i dont have many 16bit programs anymore. most common 16 bit programs have been made 32bit. there may still be some program out there that doesnt have a 32bit varient, but WHO CARES.

would you drive a brand new mercedes that can go 200 miles per hour on a 30 mile street. or an old pinto that can go (i forgot what speed) on a 40 mile street.

Actually, I'd probably drive the pinto; Don't want my Mercedes jacked...
That, and I'm one of those people who couldn't care less about luxury cars.

As for the topic:
4GHz ALU's have been in existence for sometime. The Pentium 4 uses dual double-pumped 16-bit arithmetic units. Apparently, a new algorithm is needed to ramp up 32-bit equivalents to the same speed if Intel's documentation is to be believed.

The adoption of 32-bit processing, if I remember correctly, occurred only because backwards compatibility with 16-bit was guaranteed. I believe the 486 could switch in and out of protected mode while the 386 could switch to but not out, which meant that once you ran a newfangled program in protected mode, your machine required a reboot to run the old programs.
Oh, yes, and direct memory access beyond 24-bit is useful, too.


The problem with processor design today is that nobody wants to ditch old code. Thanks to IBM, backwards compatibility has become the norm in desktops. Intel decided to try and ditch x86 in favor of IA64, but remember that they were not stupid enough to not provide a compatibility mode. Granted, it runs a hella lot slower, but that's similar to Trasmeta chips.
Buying a 32-bit processor today or even next year is not a stupid decision. While there are several reasons to keep data width small, there are only a few reasons one extends bitness. Chief among them is the ability to process larger numbers. If you look around, only a handful of users can honestly say they're itching for 64 and now that Opteron's available, some can clamor for 128 with a straight face. If Joe Sixpack can honestly say his accounting software is having trouble processing his expenses in 32-bit, he can fund the revolution himself.
Probably the second biggest reason for increasing bits is memory access, and truth be told, I'm not even sure that's required at this stage. Heck, the new opterons only address 40-bits or so at this point simply because it's less hardware to implement and the amount of memory it addresses should be enough for the next 10 years or so. Those who are clamoring for more memory are a relatively small minority. Some of them wouldn't mind having the full 64-bits and accompanying hardware. Some wouldn't mind 128, either.

The point is, only a small number of users are going to have valid reasons for Opterons in the next year or so. Much as I hate to say it, as long as Microsoft doesn't have a 64-bit OS for the masses, the vast majority of the population won't be buying AthlonFX's.
Consumer electronics are not bought like mutual funds.

 

Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
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New thought:

I am suddenly reminded of that one phone or PDA company that ran an advertisement campaign involving women at bars.
These threads smack of the same odor.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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I think quite a few people dont realize how much 64 bit is going to bring to the table until the applications are available.

Those are the same that believed moving from 16bit to 32 bit would offer nothing.

I cant wait to see the benchmarks of video encoding done with 64 bits and MP3 encosing.

This will be a real eye opener for those who still think ramping up clock speed to the limit are the solution.
 
Sep 15, 2003
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History wont repeat itself.

Microsoft has already announced Windows XP for AMD 64 in the first quarter of 2004.

I currently have a beta copy of the OS. Hopefully I will have a processor to run it on soon.

Also Microsoft has been down this road before and from lessons learned the transition will be much faster.

The original move from 16 bit to 32 bit included Plug and Pray and many other technologies to support backwards compatibility. WOW (Windows on Windows).
These are now mature processes and no longer an issue.

Less third party support drivers are required this time around as well. Before Microsoft had to create a plethora of basic drivers to support exiting cards. They accomplished something amazing by creating drivers for just about every card in existance. This is no longer the case because there are very few manufacturers than there were 10 years ago. As well the cards all work the same from a basic driver overview. The specs are already mapped so you only need is a recompile and some tweeking and you have the 64 bit version.

Microsoft with the move from 16 to 32 bit created a whole new world of specifications now that those specification have been adopted its a mute point.

If your a linux person you can already run Linux 64. Personally being a Microsoft fan I have to give credit to the Linux OS. It is very good and a very viable competitor to Windows 2000 and Office 2000. If you think otherwise then you have not tried Linux release 9+.

I cant wait to try gigabit ethernet on a 64 bit OS. I would live to have some 64 bit PCI slots as well on the motherboards.