4 ft 11inches tall,72 year old woman tased during traffic stop....

[JEDIYoda]

ok...so lets see...4ft 11 inches.......72 years old......refuses to sign a traffic ticket.....then dares deputy to taze her....so he does and twice mind you....

Whats wrong with this picture...when a huge strapping Deputy Constable cannot handle a 4 ft 11 inch, 72 year old woman without using the taze......hmmmmmm



Deputy Tasers woman, 72, during traffic stop

AUSTIN, Texas ? Cursing and belligerent, the great-grandmother refused to sign her speeding ticket, got out of her truck and dared a deputy to shock her with a Taser.

So he did.

Video released by a Travis County Constable's Office shows 72-year-old Kathryn Winkfein hitting the ground and moaning while the shocks jolted through her body after the May 11 confrontation with Travis County Sheriff's Deputy Chris Bieze.

Winkfein was stopped for driving 60 mph in a 45-mph zone just west of Austin. A dashboard camera in the deputy's car shows the 4-foot-11 Winkfein refusing to sign her speeding ticket, getting out of her white pickup truck and cursing at the deputy constable.

Bieze then pushes her to get her away from traffic.

"You're gonna shove a 72-year-old woman," Winkfein says angrily, standing inches from the deputy.

"If you don't step back, you're going to get Tased," Bieze says.

"Go ahead, Tase me," Winkfein says. "I dare you."
The video shows Bieze using the Taser and Winkfein hitting the ground and moaning in pain.

"Put your hands behind your back or you're going to be Tased again," Bieze yells, and then hits her with another jolt.
Winkfein was eventually charged with resisting arrest, a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and fines up to $4,000.

A telephone message left with Constable Sgt. Maj. Gary Griffin of the constable's office was not immediately returned Wednesday. Telephone calls to a number listed for Kathryn Winkfein in Marble Falls, about 50 miles west of Austin, went unanswered.

Griffin has defended Bieze's actions and that Winkfein was belligerent and difficult to handle.

But Travis County Sheriff Greg Hamilton, whose office does not oversee the constables, issued a statement Wednesday saying:

"I do not personally agree with the actions of the deputy constable as they are shown in the video. When I look at the video I am in awe of what happened."

 

[nobodyknows]

I fail to understand why tasing this lady is alright with so many people when beating/clubing her would not be?

 

[Fern]

Tasing is clearly getting out of hand, and is not being (properly) used for its intended purpose (restrain those who would otherwise require potentially deadly force).

Fern

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Can we get a link to the story an video?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Fern
Tasing is clearly getting out of hand, and is not being (properly) used for its intended purpose (restrain those who would otherwise require potentially deadly force).

Fern

Wrong, A taser is not used only when the use of deadly force would be required. there is a use of force guideline that cops use. It goes, from mere presence, verbal, hands on, less leathal and then leathal force.

A taser is used to subdue a suspect and to prevent serious injury to the officer AND the suspect.

It doesn't matter what the age is of the suspect, anyone can be dangerous. Shit an 89 year old man shot up the Holocaust memorial today. Anyone that is combative in anyway with a cop over something like getting a speeding ticket has some issues and that in it's self should put anyone on alert to a possible danger.
She wasn't hurt, he wasn't hurt. Everyone wins.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5076656n
There is a video of the incident here, but it is conveniently edited out of order and is missing parts.

More exceptional reporting only what they want you to see.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Can we get a link to the story an video?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_re_us/us_taser_dare

"Raw Video" still looks cut to me

 

[Phokus]

Actually i think police have to consider the age, relative weight/height, sex etc. of the perp before escalating violence.

 

[Patranus]

What part of FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTIONS police give you do people not understand?

These type of stories hit the media every week and people still don't learn. The police officer CLEARLY told the woman to follow instruction or she would be tazed. She did not follow instructions and was tazed. HE TOLD HER IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. What is so special about this story? She could of had a gun. She could have pushed the officer into traffic. That is why officers consider THEIR safety first.

 

[heyheybooboo]

With the high cost of health care being tased and arrested is cheaper than going to the hospital to have your heart rhythm adjusted.

At $4,000 she is getting out cheap!

 

[racolvin]

Unless you've got superpowers, or perhaps you're Q (ST:NG), then the chances of you winning an argument with a cop and NOT being tased/shot are pretty small. She was stupid not to just sign the ticket and go on her way

 

[cheezy321]

Lady was retarded. She tried to get public sympathy and failed hard. I love it.

 

[AreaCode707]

The police officer told her to put her hands behind her back and she stated that she was going to get in her car.

Officer's options were:
1 wrestle her to the ground and cuff her (possibly breaking bones or doing significant injury of unknown nature)
2 grab her and cuff her (possibly getting one or both of them pushed into traffic as she struggled, having his weapon grabbed, being injured himself and possibly having to resort to 1)
3 taze her (causing her to suffer temporary debilitating pain but few or none of the lasting effects of 1, also not putting himself at risk)
4 shoot her (clearly out of line)
5 let her go (clearly out of line)

I think he took the best option available to him at the time and with the information he had and the time he had to consider it. If he made a bad judgment then I'm sure it will come up in the review of the incident and be addressed accordingly. I don't see any evidence he did this maliciously, in a power hungry or aggressive fashion.

I feel really bad for the cop who was doing his job and is now the subject of internet message boards everywhere, probably really fouling up his whole life. I don't feel bad for the little old lady who refused to act in a reasonable manner with a police officer and apparently thought she should get off simply because of her age.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Patranus
What part of FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTIONS police give you do people not understand?

These type of stories hit the media every week and people still don't learn. The police officer CLEARLY told the woman to follow instruction or she would be tazed. She did not follow instructions and was tazed. HE TOLD HER IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. What is so special about this story? She could of had a gun. She could have pushed the officer into traffic. That is why officers consider THEIR safety first.

Clearly Grandma was an imminent threat.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
The police officer told her to put her hands behind her back and she stated that she was going to get in her car.

Officer's options were:
1 wrestle her to the ground and cuff her (possibly breaking bones or doing significant injury of unknown nature)
2 grab her and cuff her (possibly getting one or both of them pushed into traffic as she struggled, having his weapon grabbed, being injured himself and possibly having to resort to 1)
3 taze her (causing her to suffer temporary debilitating pain but few or none of the lasting effects of 1, also not putting himself at risk)
4 shoot her (clearly out of line)
5 let her go (clearly out of line)

I think he took the best option available to him at the time and with the information he had and the time he had to consider it. If he made a bad judgment then I'm sure it will come up in the review of the incident and be addressed accordingly. I don't see any evidence he did this maliciously, in a power hungry or aggressive fashion.

I feel really bad for the cop who was doing his job and is now the subject of internet message boards everywhere, probably really fouling up his whole life. I don't feel bad for the little old lady who refused to act in a reasonable manner with a police officer and apparently thought she should get off simply because of her age.

Obviously you've never manhandled a 72 year old woman, give it a try.

You grab her on the shoulders, and with half the force it takes to open a jar of pickles, you spin her around so her back is facing you.

Then you move your hands down to her wrists. If she resists it will feel like someone is blowing on your palms.

Then you hold the two 1 inch diameter wrists with the fingers of one hand and use the other to cuff her.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
The police officer told her to put her hands behind her back and she stated that she was going to get in her car.

Officer's options were:
1 wrestle her to the ground and cuff her (possibly breaking bones or doing significant injury of unknown nature)
2 grab her and cuff her (possibly getting one or both of them pushed into traffic as she struggled, having his weapon grabbed, being injured himself and possibly having to resort to 1)
3 taze her (causing her to suffer temporary debilitating pain but few or none of the lasting effects of 1, also not putting himself at risk)
4 shoot her (clearly out of line)
5 let her go (clearly out of line)

I think he took the best option available to him at the time and with the information he had and the time he had to consider it. If he made a bad judgment then I'm sure it will come up in the review of the incident and be addressed accordingly. I don't see any evidence he did this maliciously, in a power hungry or aggressive fashion.

I feel really bad for the cop who was doing his job and is now the subject of internet message boards everywhere, probably really fouling up his whole life. I don't feel bad for the little old lady who refused to act in a reasonable manner with a police officer and apparently thought she should get off simply because of her age.

Obviously you've never manhandled a 72 year old woman, give it a try.

You grab her on the shoulders, and with half the force it takes to open a jar of pickles, you spin her around so her back is facing you.

Then you move your hands down to her wrists. If she resists it will feel like someone is blowing on your palms.

Then you hold the two 1 inch diameter wrists with the fingers of one hand and use the other to cuff her.

I've known women in their late 70s who could kick my 25 year old ass. Clearly she wouldn't have won a confrontation with the police officer under any circumstance but her age alone is no reason to assume that she couldn't have put up a fight or caused injury. The officer reacted to an unknown factor appropriately according to his training.

You assume 72 = feeble. It's not always the case and it would not have been safe for the officer to assume it was.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Clearly Grandma was an imminent threat.

Primarily to herself, but to the cop and other drivers, as well. The cop had no choice. The woman should be glad she wasn't hurt.

 

[Matthiasa]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I fail to understand why tasing this lady is alright with so many people when beating/clubing her would not be?

Something about how tasing someone is far less harmful to an individual cause no lasting injuries barring the person having unknown medical conditions. Tasing is the least harmful of those choices, and so why wouldn't it be more suported then beating and clubing smoeone old enough to have fragil bones.

Maybe you would need to get beaten bad enough to understand?

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
The police officer told her to put her hands behind her back and she stated that she was going to get in her car.

Officer's options were:
1 wrestle her to the ground and cuff her (possibly breaking bones or doing significant injury of unknown nature)
2 grab her and cuff her (possibly getting one or both of them pushed into traffic as she struggled, having his weapon grabbed, being injured himself and possibly having to resort to 1)
3 taze her (causing her to suffer temporary debilitating pain but few or none of the lasting effects of 1, also not putting himself at risk)
4 shoot her (clearly out of line)
5 let her go (clearly out of line)

I think he took the best option available to him at the time and with the information he had and the time he had to consider it. If he made a bad judgment then I'm sure it will come up in the review of the incident and be addressed accordingly. I don't see any evidence he did this maliciously, in a power hungry or aggressive fashion.

I feel really bad for the cop who was doing his job and is now the subject of internet message boards everywhere, probably really fouling up his whole life. I don't feel bad for the little old lady who refused to act in a reasonable manner with a police officer and apparently thought she should get off simply because of her age.

Obviously you've never manhandled a 72 year old woman, give it a try.

You grab her on the shoulders, and with half the force it takes to open a jar of pickles, you spin her around so her back is facing you.

Then you move your hands down to her wrists. If she resists it will feel like someone is blowing on your palms.

Then you hold the two 1 inch diameter wrists with the fingers of one hand and use the other to cuff her.

I've known women in their late 70s who could kick my 25 year old ass. Clearly she wouldn't have won a confrontation with the police officer under any circumstance but her age alone is no reason to assume that she couldn't have put up a fight or caused injury. The officer reacted to an unknown factor appropriately according to his training.

You assume 72 = feeble. It's not always the case and it would not have been safe for the officer to assume it was.

And he couldn't see that?

I'm assuming that he would have had no trouble cuffing her without taking her to the ground from the video I watched and personal experience with the elderly.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Patranus
What part of FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTIONS police give you do people not understand?

These type of stories hit the media every week and people still don't learn. The police officer CLEARLY told the woman to follow instruction or she would be tazed. She did not follow instructions and was tazed. HE TOLD HER IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. What is so special about this story? She could of had a gun. She could have pushed the officer into traffic. That is why officers consider THEIR safety first.

Clearly Grandma was an imminent threat.

Who the hell knows if she was an imminent threat. Like I said it is standard procedure. Everyone is treated the same. After all, if we can't use profiling to catch suspected criminals we can't use profiling to take it easy on an elderly woman.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
The police officer told her to put her hands behind her back and she stated that she was going to get in her car.

Officer's options were:
1 wrestle her to the ground and cuff her (possibly breaking bones or doing significant injury of unknown nature)
2 grab her and cuff her (possibly getting one or both of them pushed into traffic as she struggled, having his weapon grabbed, being injured himself and possibly having to resort to 1)
3 taze her (causing her to suffer temporary debilitating pain but few or none of the lasting effects of 1, also not putting himself at risk)
4 shoot her (clearly out of line)
5 let her go (clearly out of line)

I think he took the best option available to him at the time and with the information he had and the time he had to consider it. If he made a bad judgment then I'm sure it will come up in the review of the incident and be addressed accordingly. I don't see any evidence he did this maliciously, in a power hungry or aggressive fashion.

I feel really bad for the cop who was doing his job and is now the subject of internet message boards everywhere, probably really fouling up his whole life. I don't feel bad for the little old lady who refused to act in a reasonable manner with a police officer and apparently thought she should get off simply because of her age.

Obviously you've never manhandled a 72 year old woman, give it a try.

You grab her on the shoulders, and with half the force it takes to open a jar of pickles, you spin her around so her back is facing you.

Then you move your hands down to her wrists. If she resists it will feel like someone is blowing on your palms.

Then you hold the two 1 inch diameter wrists with the fingers of one hand and use the other to cuff her.

I've known women in their late 70s who could kick my 25 year old ass. Clearly she wouldn't have won a confrontation with the police officer under any circumstance but her age alone is no reason to assume that she couldn't have put up a fight or caused injury. The officer reacted to an unknown factor appropriately according to his training.

You assume 72 = feeble. It's not always the case and it would not have been safe for the officer to assume it was.

And he couldn't see that?

I'm assuming that he would have had no trouble cuffing her without taking her to the ground from the video I watched and personal experience with the elderly.

"Winning" and "winning without risking harm to you, the other person or bystanders (in this case, traffic)" are two totally different things. There's nothing in the video that tells us how much damage he could have done to her, or her to him, if he tried to cuff her. Your assumption is faulty due to lack of evidence one way or the other. If there's any doubt, he acted correctly. If a review panel decides there wasn't doubt and he acted too harshly then he'll be disciplined.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
"Winning" and "winning without risking harm to you, the other person or bystanders (in this case, traffic)" are two totally different things. There's nothing in the video that tells us how much damage he could have done to her, or her to him, if he tried to cuff her. Your assumption is faulty due to lack of evidence one way or the other. If there's any doubt, he acted correctly. If a review panel decides there wasn't doubt and he acted too harshly then he'll be disciplined.

We need a campaign for tasers in nursing homes so that the old folks don't get hurt when they get out of hand.

 

[Ns1]

we should stop using tasers and go back to billy clubs, like any civilized society.


seriously wtf is this shit, don't play with fire and you won't get burned.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I fail to understand why tasing this lady is alright with so many people when beating/clubing her would not be?

who said that?....she should have been treated like a baby seal.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Who the hell knows if she was an imminent threat.

Obviously, you didn't watch the video. She wasn't a danger as in possibly having a weapon, but she was in an uncooperative, manic state that could be taken as an imminent threat to wander out into traffic or possibly to push the cop into traffic, if only by accident.

Hell! She dared him to tase her, and as the OP said, she literally got what she asked for.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I fail to understand why tasing this lady is alright with so many people when beating/clubing her would not be?

who said that?....she should have been treated like a baby seal.

Yes, and beat anybody who disagrees too. They'll learn if we have to kill them.