4:3 Television For Classics

p_monks33

Golden Member
May 22, 2011
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81
I am looking for a good TV for my game room to play mostly my original Modded Wii with Nes and N64 Games, Some Gamecube,Dreamcast, and PSX stuff on. I was thinking that 4:3 aspect ratio would be my best bet. I have found a few on craigslist for less than 100 bucks and wondered if anyone had an opinion for this, because playing on the Plasma or the LCD at 1080p looks like utter crap with older systems, pixelated and jagged. The two craigslist finds are a Sony KV-32HS500 which does 4:3 and the other local to me is a Panasonic CT34WX52 34" with 16:9 ratio. Any other opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
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Most decent TV's these days have a very solid stretch feature that actually looks really solid. I play FF7 stretched on my cheap-O 42" Sigmac and it looks just as good as native 4:3.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Most decent TV's these days have a very solid stretch feature that actually looks really solid. I play FF7 stretched on my cheap-O 42" Sigmac and it looks just as good as native 4:3.

Every game that I've ever seen made for 4:3 stretched to 16:9 looks bad. I never stretch any games.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
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Just yesterday I helped a person move a working 36" tube tv to the end of his yard where it will be picked up in the trash. It was so heavy it was beyond words. I can't imagine willingly bringing a tube tv back in the house. There must be a way to do this cleanly on an LCD!
 

zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
974
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91
Does your TV not have a 4:3 setting? I know our 5+ year old plasma have a setting for 4:3 which puts black bars on both side to achieve the 4:3 aspect ratio.
 

p_monks33

Golden Member
May 22, 2011
1,292
5
81
My three TVs in the house all have that setting. I have a DLP a LCD and a Plasma. CRT is known to look tons better for older systems. Ever plug a Nintendo into a HDTV? It looks blocky and terrible compared to what a CRT can look like.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
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My three TVs in the house all have that setting. I have a DLP a LCD and a Plasma. CRT is known to look tons better for older systems. Ever plug a Nintendo into a HDTV? It looks blocky and terrible compared to what a CRT can look like.
low-def tv broadcasting looked like absolute hell on the earlier hd tvs, too.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Just yesterday I helped a person move a working 36" tube tv to the end of his yard where it will be picked up in the trash. It was so heavy it was beyond words. I can't imagine willingly bringing a tube tv back in the house. There must be a way to do this cleanly on an LCD!

Same here. I recently tossed a 32" Sony Trinitron I had been holding on to for retro gaming purposes. It's crazy how heavy those things are. In comparison, I looked up the weight on Sharp's 90" LCD and it's only 150 pounds!
 

sonambulo

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2004
4,777
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There must be a way to do this cleanly on an LCD!

Most sets have a 4:3 option somewhere in the settings menu.

Regarding picture quality and response time, you'll want to run your console through a frame meister. I've got a 3 and a mini (and a backup mini) and love them both in their own separate ways.

P.S. Just remember you said cleanly not cheaply ;)
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
The best for retro gaming are old broadcast reference monitors that support RGB input. You can find them floating around on eBay. That's if you're an absolute purist. Though old CRT TVs shouldn't be too hard to find. I always see them out at garage sales. Even on garbage day you might find a working one someone's just chucked.

Retro games IMHO, are best played using emulators on modern flat panel TVs. They upscale the image better, and have filters to clean it up.
 

I4AT

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2006
2,631
3
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Have you considered a native 800x600 DLP projector? At a little under $300 it's more than you'd pay for an old tube TV, but it's also a lot more compact and can throw up a 100" image. You could also share a screen/viewing space with a 1080p projector for home theater use, and break out the 800x600 unit for retro/DVD.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
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The best for retro gaming are old broadcast reference monitors that support RGB input. You can find them floating around on eBay. That's if you're an absolute purist. Though old CRT TVs shouldn't be too hard to find. I always see them out at garage sales. Even on garbage day you might find a working one someone's just chucked.

Retro games IMHO, are best played using emulators on modern flat panel TVs. They upscale the image better, and have filters to clean it up.
Depends, Eternal Darkness looks beautiful on my lappy, however, older games that use pre-rendered backgrounds are Absolutely Hideous when scaled.
 
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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
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I have a 20" Sony PVM 20M4U RGB broadcast monitor:

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Pictures do not do it justice. The main problem is the blooming, glare, etc that the camera picks up but also the moire patterns introduced by the fine pixel density of the camera beating against the fine density of the aperture grill in the screen.

In person it looks flawless, it's like a CRT arcade monitor or better. Looping the Metroid Prime idle demo through this monitor with the crystal clear digital audio coming through a Klipsch 2.1 Promedia setup, I swear it's like playing on a top of the line arcade cabinet back in the late 90s.

Another option is any of the last generation Sony Wega flat tubes that accept component and using something like a JRok RGBS to component converter which is passive on the signal. RGB to component is just adding/subtracting the signals, it isn't doing any kind of conversion or scaling. NTSC RF, composite, and S-video (which still carries NTSC) should be avoided like the plague.

Any old system that natively puts out RGB, component, or VGA should be used with that signal. Framebuffer to NTSC conversion is like consuming sushi and then taking a dump. The output signal has ZERO correlation with the input signal, it's a completely different format and it sucks. But converting RGB to component is like rearranging the sushi. It's still the same sushi.

I don't know if those TVs can do 240p over component though, might need a line doubler as well, but it's a good option for big screen 32-40" CRT gaming since there aren't many broadcast reference monitors with RGB inputs beyond 20-25".

I'm personally contemplating going this route on Sony 40XBR850 one of these days. If I don't like it oh well its only like a $50-100 TV now. Maybe even get one free since people are hoping someone else will come and pick up their 400 lb behemoth.

Older systems only provided 240p 15khz RGB output as their native output, and most have those pins bypassing the NTSC encoder and going to the AV out connector. Regardless what you use for a display you should always use this. Even a RGB to component converter and hooked up to a flat panel set to 4:3 ratio with nothing else will look 100000x better than hooking a yellow composite signal up to your flat panel. It's not the blockiness and upconversion that is really bad, so much as when that upconversion occurs form a single yellow RCA composite or s video source.

All the color errors and fine detail loss, as well as signal interference, dot crawl, etc, will be sampled by your image processor when it does the scaling and that stuff becomes part of the image information where it it scaled and processed and sampled and blended along with the game image. In short, the NTSC artifacts and RF noise and ghosting become part of the picture, not just something riding on top of it. The resulting picture looks as if you just smeared your wet ass crack on the TV screen.

The other problem, which I encountered the other day while testing a NES at my parents house where my sister just HAD to play Super Mario, is input lag. This is going to be a bigger factor than anything else. When she kept dying and I took the controller away and was all "this is how it's done" ready to blow through it, I was faced with spongy rubber band feeling time offset controls that made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to perform any kind of pixel perfect jumping/landing/timing, etc. I felt it immediately the first time I went to jump on that first goomba and took 3 tries to hit the mushroom block.

While this will vary with TV make and model and settings, just keep in mind that you are only ADDING to that lag by adding external scalers, line doublers, scanline generators, etc. in your quest to make it "good enough" on your LCD.

Another thing to consider is light guns only work with CRTs.

If you're on a budget or just don't want a huge heavy hulking box just pick up a 19-25" tube TV for $1 at the next random yard sale you come across in your daily driving. Try and get a decent name brand unit though and not some off the wall never heard of blury piece of crap with like half an inch of misconvergence from the factory.
 
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