3DMark05 questions

[Zenoth]

Hi.

I'm posting this here since I believe 3DMark03 / 05 are basically GPU benchmarks.

And the version of 3DMark05 we're talking about here is 1.20

So, first of all, here's my previous system's specifications:

Intel PIV 2.6C with H-T enabled, over-clocked at 2.8 Ghz
ASUS P4P800
Same Memory as in my signature, but it had Intel PAT enabled, and the timings were at 2.5-2-2-5
Same GPU as well, and its Memory was over-clocked at 360 Mhz (Core frequency at stock)
Windows XP SP2
All useless processes were disabled during the benchmarks I did with that system, as I always do, such as the Firewall and the Anti-Virus
Anti-Aliasing Off / Application Preference
Anisotropic Filtering Off / Application Preference
Mipmap detail at Performance

With that system, the very best score I ever had was 2402.

Ok, now, my signature shows my current system's specifications.

CPU over-clocked at 2.31 Ghz (Multiplier 11)
Exact same Memory, Bank Interleaving enabled, 2T Command disabled, with different timings this time (can't get it lower latency without stability problems)
GPU's Memory frequency, again, over-clocked at the same speed it's stable at, 360 Mhz.
Also using Windows XP SP2
ATi Catalyst 5.4 with Control Center
Catalyst A.I enabled (Standard)
Anti-Aliasing Off / Application Preference
Anisotropic Filtering Off / Application Preference
Mipmap detail at Performance
All useless processes disabled

I just ran three times, 3DMark05, and the bext score I got was 2035.

Now what do you guys think is going on ?

I'm sure at 100% my current system is at least just a little bit faster / better than my previous one. So I'm sure there is something wrong. But I have absolutely no ideas what would that be.

Any ideas guys ? Something I forgot to enable somewhere ?

I do not really give much importance to these benchmarks, but since I upgraded a bit, I was curious to see what would the new score be. But honestly this is both surpising and disappointing, because I'm sure there's something wrong, somehwere, but I just don't know what it could be.

I need suggestions, stuff I might want to take a look at twice to be sure.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Oceanic]

Dont know man, maybe you need to reformat?

I get 4000 with a 3000 winnie at 2.0, i know the 6600gt does most of the work, but your score shouldnt have gone down

 

[Zenoth]

This is so strange.

I would have expected at least the same score, or somethig near that, but going down nearly 400 points is clearly giving me a message, something is wrong. But I can't figure out what.

 

[peleejosh]

what version of drivers were you using before? Scores will vary between versions of drivers.

 

[Zenoth]

I used Catalyst 5.2, if I remember well.

But...varying scores between drivers, yes I can understand...but by 400 points lower ? Especially in '05 ? Something s'not right.

Oh, and, I just took a look in the BIOS, and I noticed two things.

My AGP frequency is set at 66 / 33.

And there is that feature / option named VLink 8X, and it is set at Enabled.

I know what AGP frequency limits does, and it's alright at its current setting.

But what exactly is VLink 8X ? Do I actually "need" that ? Or can I Disabled it without risking to damage something ?

 

[Zenoth]

Help ?

 

[Trente]

Try reinstalling the drivers for your VIA (chipset) based motherboard.

 

[RussianSensation]

Why did you waste $$$ on an A64 setup, when even going 6600GT, not even talking about 6800GT would have given you much more performance increase in games for the money. This is your punishment for making a less than optimal upgrade decision

 

[Fern]

Any ideas guys ? Something I forgot to enable somewhere ?

Fast Writes in BIOS maybe?

 

[Zenoth]

Ok, came back from job.

I will disable Fast Writes in BIOS, and I'll see what happens. I didn't thought about that.

And, RussianSensation, I know it wasn't that great of an upgrade (even though it technically is), but my previous system's Motherboard was dying for some reasons. It wouldn't even POST at all. And yes I tried many things. Reseting the BIOS data by moving the pins, the battery, changing hardware, processor, memory, graphics card...I tried pretty much everything. Nothing could do. So I needed a new Motherboard / CPU combo. And since I'm a gamer, I went for AMD, and since I like ASUS, even though my P4P800 died in one year and an half, so I went for an A8V Deluxe. So that's the story.

Anyway...

I'll come back and let you guys know about the results after turning Fast Writes Off in the BIOS.

P.S: I would still like to know exactly what is VLink 8X in my BIOS, if anyone can tell me exactly what's the role of that feature I would greatly appreciate. I personally think it has something to do with the Chipset, I mean, to connect it to the AGP or Memory or something similar, I mean the name speaks for itself, it's a "Link" so...but I'm just not 100% sure. So I don't want to mess with that unless someone tells me it's safe to.

 

[imported_Kensai]

If anyone hasn't noticed, in the water demo thingy all the calculations are calculated real time by the CPU. It's like the Doom 3 shadow engines. Your CPU has to calculate the path of the ship.

 

[Zenoth]

Ok let's see.

Disabling Fast Writes in the BIOS helped.

I just ran one 3DMark05 benchmark, and now my score reached 2301. It is better indeed.

But there's still something strange...

That 2301 score is still 125 points lower than my highest score from my previous system (I was wrong, it wasn't 2402, but 2426, it's a detail I know, but still I wasn't the good score).

What is good to note here is that my actual system's CPU score is higher than my previous system's. Which, technically, is a good thing. So, the problem lies somewhere regarding my GPU.

Finally there is something I noticed, which is strange actually.

In my benchmark's details, it shows my current system's FSB at 200 Mhz. But my FSB is currently set at 210 Mhz, at a multiplier of 11, in my BIOS. That's needed for my CPU frequency that's actually at 2310 Mhz. So I find it strange to see that my previous system's FSB properly showed its FSB at 220 Mhz, while my actual shows as if nothing changed, even though it is actually changed at 210 Mhz.

I still don't know exactly what's going on. But I'm not that far from finding the cause(s). It basically has something to do with my GPU, first, and then maybe something else.

Here's my AMD system score: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=764157

If you guys want, ask me, and I'll publish my old system's score for you guys to compare.

 

[Amplifier]

Zen, a 6600gt with your system will give you a score between 3200 and 4000. It'll only be a difference in price of ~$100.

 

[Fern]

Maybe a good idea to run Everst Home Edition or other benchie type proggie to make sure your settings are actualy where you think they are. That includes the OC on the 9800p too.

I found this:

VLink 8X Support

Common Options : Enabled, Disabled

Quick Review

The VLink 8X Support BIOS feature is used to toggle the V-Link bus mode between the original V-Link and the newer and faster 8X V-Link.

If this feature is enabled, the quad-pumped 8-bit V-Link bus will switch to the new 8X V-Link mode, which runs at 133MHz and delivers a bandwidth of 533MB/s.

If this feature is disabled, the V-Link bus will use a clock speed of 66MHz, essentially reverting to the original V-Link standard. It will then deliver a bandwidth of 266MB/s.

This BIOS feature was most likely included for troubleshooting purposes. It is highly recommended that you enable this BIOS feature for better performance.

The v-link bus looks to be unique to VIA chipsets. It links the NB and SB and apparently works with mem controller too. Look HERE for data on the original vlink bus. Note the paragraph and diagram at the bottom of the article.

Fern

 

[Zenoth]

Ok, well.

Thanks a lot. So I let VLink 8X enabled. That's cool.

Also, I will give a try to Everst Home Edition.

As for buying a 6600 GT...well. You guys must note something here. I did not upgrade just to get better benchmark results. I upgraded because I needed to. Not because I wanted to. I'm alright with my current system.

But it was just out of curiosity that I decided to run a 3DMark05 benchmark of my new system to compare the score with the best one my previous system reached.

I knew that, technically, my new Motherboard / CPU combo provides better performance. Not by a lot, since my GPU and the Memory are the very same. But still, New Motherboard, new features, new Memory settings I did not have with my P4P800 (Bank and Node Interleaving, VLink 8X, 2T / 1T Command and better over-clock options) and new CPU with integrated Memory controller (of course that is AMD Athlon).

So, with this new system, I expected to get at least the same score or very similar. But instead, it goes 400 points lower. Which was technically wrong.

So with that score (when I had 2035), I got a message in my head telling "Hey...ok...what's that...there's something wrong here".

So, with your help guys (because I didn't thought about doing that) I disabled Fast Writes from the BIOS. And now, with that feature disabled, I get a score of 2301.

But it is still 125 points lower than my previous system's best score.

Not to mention that my current CPU is over-clocked by 110 Mhz. That's not a lot, of course, but still...it's an over-clock.

Honestly, I was expecting a score somewhere between 2350 and 2500. But something (or many things) somewhere were (or are still) decreasing the score I know I should get.

 

[Zenoth]

Ok, downloaded and verified what Everest had to say.

It shows my FSB and its multiplier properly.

But there is, once again, something I noticed...

Is says that my "Processor Alias" is ClawHammer-512 S939.

And CPU-z says it's a NewCastle.

I originally wanted a Winchester, but it couldn't be found from my local store's publisher. So I accepted to get a NewCastle, from the sayings of the seller. I knew CPU-z showed it was indeed a NewCastle.

But now another program tells me it's a ClawHammer. Plus, the problems I have with my GPU, apparently. If it still resumes the same way for the next weeks, I will definitely upgrade from A to Z.

 

[Minotar]

First, I recommend you manually install your AGP drivers, as Windows (all versions) never really seem to install the optimal drivers. From experience, I will tell you that this makes a HUGE difference in benchmarks and my scores have doubled in doing this in my older system. Also, try benchmarking in some games and not just 3d mark. The only thing I trust for benchmarking, is the real world apps!!! Anyway, a good way to check your AGP drivers, is to check in your device manager and make sure you have something labeled, "AGP to CPU bridge". If that is not listed anywhere look for "PCI to CPU bridge" and update that with the newest AGP drivers from ASUS. See, if the right drivers are not manually installed, sometimes WIndows will install generic drivers that treat your AGP slot as a PCI slot!!!! I know this from experience. Also make sure your chipset drivers for your motherboard are all updated and installed as well!!!! Both of these things are very important...Good luck!

 

[Fern]

The difference in your score now could very well be due to the difference in gfx drivers.

Its been a while since I ran Everest, does it tell you data on the 9800p? I was curious if you could confirm the core and mem settings. Maybe the mem OC didn't "stick". Are you sure the core wasn't OC'd b4?

It seems to me at this point it boils down to the 9800p not performing quite as it did b4. Perhaps drivers, or slightly diff OC, or even an AGP performance diff due to new chipset.

Did your previous mobo have an AGP lock? If not, you may have been running the AGP bus frequency a little above 66mhz. Maybe that could account for the difference?

Have any revisions or updates been done to 3dMark05, is it the exact same proggie you used b4?

In the end, I don't think I would worry too much about this pretty small diff. If it played my games properely and I got the FPS I was looking for I would be content.

I wouldn't worry about what Everest says about your cpu, CPU-z got it right and I think thats more important. Everest may need to be updated to properly recognize it (or maybe you need the newest BIOS?). But CPU-z is a cpu focused proggie and I give it more weight in the matter.

So I think you're pretty much fine now. I wouldn't get a 6600GT either. I don't think its much of an upgrade from the 9800p. I recently upgraded my 9800p to a 6800GT. Thats an upgrade I can recommend.

Fern

 

[Zenoth]

Ok, guys...I've just read some very interesting articles regarding my Motherboard, its Chipset maker (VIA Technologies) and the famous VIA Hyperion 4 In 1 driver package for the Chipset.

The problems I am experiencing (Well...not "problems", should I say "issues of performance") may well be caused (That's a good 95% chance) by the combination of the Operating System, and the VIA Hyperion 4 In 1 driver.

The latest version of that drivers package is 4.56. Release just yesterday actually !

I installed the package. And it works fine.

But it doesn't change the fact that the Hyperion 4 In 1 drivers package has been the direct source of issues related to gaming and overall applications performance.

Take that post for example, on VIA's Arena Forums: A version of 4 in 1 drivers is "native" to Windows XP. Have you tried not installing the 4 in 1 update and leaving it alone? You may also want to try SP2 if that is not included with the OS install. The Microsoft AGP driver will install with SP2 and may run better with your ATI GPU. It is because of problems like this with Via and to some extent, nVidia, that ATI will soon be entering the chipset market. http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview....5&highlight_key=y&keyword1=a8v+deluxe)

And that post as well: http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview....?catid=54&threadid=65008&enterthread=y

And many, many more.

VIA Technologies are updating their Hyperion package from time to time. But so far, it seems that many users, especially with ATi GPU's, of Motherboards with a VIA Chipset, have been experiencing all sorts of problems, from mere performance issues to serious / critical errors.

So, with that in mind, I know one thing now. I will do everything humanly possible to avoid VIA Chipset in my next Motherboard. I pray to God it remains an ASUS product, but to avoid one with a VIA Chipset inside at all costs.

Or better yet, if ATi enters the Chipset market, then we are definitely blessed.