3DMark Makers Upset with [H]ardOCP **Updated 10/7** FUTUREMARK APOLOGIZES

[flexy]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Yep, if 3DMark has no predictive ability for real games, it's fairly useless as a benchmark.

i can write a program which draws a big turd on my screen and STILL could use this program as a half-way legitimate benchmark. I can say the turd gets drawn w/ 22fps on Nvidia and 24 fps on ATI.

As 'valuable' and 'reliable' and 'honest' as a TWIMTBP-game-benchmarks (with optimizations for certain brands)...3dmark or whatevermark.

 

[flexy]

3DMock is great for eye-candy. That's all.
- M4H

i use it for comparing my sys setup to others, eg. if the numbers are not what they're supposed to be. also valuable for overclocking and stress-testing. And a nice insight what good game developers can/could actually do in an engine. developers who actually KNOW the hardware and use it to its extent.
People ONLY have a problem with it because ONE card (AT/Nvidia) will always be slower/faster....and...well...this makes it UNRELIABLE

(The cheating story and driver-optimizations are another story)

I dont have anything against synthetic benchmarking per-se - and there is not ONE logical reason why a game-benchmark whould be more 'real life oriented' than a synthetic benchmark.

The game-bench's results are ONLY valid for itself - eg. UT2k3 benchmark shows, WELL, performance with UT2k3...and NOT Doom3, and NOT HL, and NOT FarCry.......but the irony is, people blame ONLY 3dmark, and NOT any game-bench..wonder why ?

 

[CrystalBay]

Fudo's influence is showing in Kyle's effluence...

 

[nick1985]

someone call the WAAAAAAAAAmbulance

 

[thegimp03]

I don't know...even thought 3dmark05 ran poorly on my system, it still ran about on par with the techreport article. It gave me an opportunity to see that most things are running correctly in my pc. If I had seen a serious difference in scores, then I would have worried a bit.

 

[Sunner]

I don't like [ H ] much, but I agree with them on 3DMark's uselessness.
And if that letter was indeed written by some fella over at FM, he should be fired, while I enjoy companies that are a bit "relaxed" so to speak, that's just plain silly and very amateurish.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

i think it is useful for quickly testing whether a change or tweak you make to a system is helpful, but should not be used to measure how useful and/or whether competing systems are better in making purchase decieions

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Adn4n
Silly Finlanders, or are they Fins? I'd be scared if I saw a fin in the water.

Bashing Finlanders now are we... ok get in line!!!


As for benchmarks, please tell me which benchmark to use for testing 3D performance WITHOUT ACTUALLY BUYING A GAME! I know the Futuremark boys, and if the game makers would share the engine code they use, FM WOULD make a bench that actually measures real game performance.... as this is not the case, they have to rely on their OWN engine, making of which is a feature itself. AND, their engine has been used by gamemakers, so saying 3Dmark does have NOTHING to do with actual game performance is a false claim.

Just my 2c...

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

I do stand by the opinion that 3DMark05 "sucks" as a benchmark based on the fact that it does not tell me anything specifically about the games I play. Did 3DMark tell us how DOOM3 was going to play? No. Will 3DMark tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play on a given system? No. Does that mean 3DMark is worthless? Surely not. 3DMark has a ton of great and fun uses; I just don't find any of them as a benefit to our readers or myself directly. On that note, the entire 3DMark series can be a great tool for end users testing tweaks and such on their systems and it can be a great source of fun competition across the Net.

Precisely how I feel about it I long ago dubbed it 3DMock for those very reasons. This is further proof that they are just a bunch of profiteering assclowns. Go Kyle! We got your back brudda

exactly....kyle knows how to right a comeback, its a good thing tero decided not to communicate further because im sure he would of had no comeback after that

3d mark is a good tool tho, ok its not really representative of the games out now, it is a very nice way to check your overclocks and get the right performance/IQ trade off (if u have the pro version) tho ive never been able to run 3dmark03 -05 with ultra speeds, yet all my games play nicely with 410mhz/1110mhz. but as a far as being a benchmark to base your purchasing choice off its not too good, i bought the 6800gt not because of the 3dmark, but coz it rocked the games i wanted to play

 

[DaFinn]

As for those (and Kyle) who think FM has no case and kyles remark about 1st amendment was witty and Tero is stupid to mention lawyers...

In cases like it is the plaintiffs (FM) location that determines where possible trial would take place. IF Kyle has made false/baseless claims of a product (3Dmark) and it has hurt plaintiffs business/ reputation, FM can sue them in Finland. In this case trial would take place in Helsinki. And, I can tell you that in courts here false claims that hurt someones business/reputation will get your a$$ kicked...

 

[BenSkywalker]

In cases like it is the plaintiffs (FM) location that determines where possible trial would take place.

In the US it is the defendant's location, not the plantiff's.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: flexy
AS far as i know the makers of 3dmark made one of the BEST game-engine to-date, namely the Max Payne 1/2 engine which run great even on lower end systems.

In my opinion there are a BUNCH of (game)developers out there who could learn how to write effective code from the futuremark guys.

MadOnion/Futuremark did not make the Max Payne (1) engine -- they licensed it from Remedy Games (who are apparently like down the street from their offices in Finland). They also used an off-the-shelf physics engine (Havok) in 3DMark01 (although, to be fair, a number of real games also use this). They had nothing to do (AFAIK) with the development of MP2.

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: flexy
AS far as i know the makers of 3dmark made one of the BEST game-engine to-date, namely the Max Payne 1/2 engine which run great even on lower end systems.

In my opinion there are a BUNCH of (game)developers out there who could learn how to write effective code from the futuremark guys.

MadOnion/Futuremark did not make the Max Payne (1) engine -- they licensed it from Remedy Games (who are apparently like down the street from their offices in Finland). They also used an off-the-shelf physics engine (Havok) in 3DMark01 (although, to be fair, a number of real games also use this). They had nothing to do (AFAIK) with the development of MP2.

FM and Remedy people go way back, and they work very closely together. Technically what you say is correct but...

 

[NFS4]

APOLOGY TO HARDOCP:

http://www.hardforum.com/showp...0094&postcount=545

 

[MercenaryForHire]

:beer:

- M4H

 

[DaFinn]

Go Tero! Welldone! :beer:

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Go Tero! Welldone! :beer:

 

[Zebo]

:thumbsup: Yup... can't bully the reviewers.. and expect to get away with it...duh.