3DMark Makers Upset with [H]ardOCP **Updated 10/7** FUTUREMARK APOLOGIZES

[NFS4]

http://www.hardocp.com/index.html

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026705723


APOLOGY TO HARDOCP:

http://www.hardforum.com/showp...0094&postcount=545

 

[dmw16]

Silly silly futuremark. They are really just gonna piss of the community that supports them. And besides that, I think Kyle is right. 3dmark is fine for testing tweaks, but aside from side by side comparisions like that it isnt much for telling you how games will run on your machine. Stick it to 'em Kyle

 

[Dug]

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I do stand by the opinion that 3DMark05 "sucks" as a benchmark based on the fact that it does not tell me anything specifically about the games I play. Did 3DMark tell us how DOOM3 was going to play? No. Will 3DMark tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play on a given system? No. Does that mean 3DMark is worthless? Surely not. 3DMark has a ton of great and fun uses; I just don't find any of them as a benefit to our readers or myself directly. On that note, the entire 3DMark series can be a great tool for end users testing tweaks and such on their systems and it can be a great source of fun competition across the Net.

Precisely how I feel about it I long ago dubbed it 3DMock for those very reasons. This is further proof that they are just a bunch of profiteering assclowns. Go Kyle! We got your back brudda

 

[DaveSimmons]

Yep, if 3DMark has no predictive ability for real games, it's fairly useless as a benchmark. Go Kyle.

The Infinium / Phantom legal paper was fun reading too. Hopefully they'll win some $1m judgment and take away the last of IL's venture capital, tirggering a flood of investor lawsuits against IL :evil:

 

[sharkeeper]

They (FM) will be listed in the fuckedcompany.com directory real soon.

Cheers!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: sharkeeper
They (FM) will be listed in the fuckedcompany.com directory real soon.

Cheers!

I fervently hope that turns out to be prophetic Can you believe some of the kooks here actually wonder why I hate Futuremock so much? It's as valid as any other benchmark says they :roll:

 

[Regs]

And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it

LOL, owned.

 

[Lonyo]

I love the way that Futuremark replied "You know what I mean".
How is [ H ]ocp meant to know exactly?
Surely that comment alone (as a reply), means Futuremark can't sue H, because they did not really state which comments were questionable?

 

[kamranziadar]

they suck

 

[Regs]

That must be some prank e mailer. The e mail came from a guy with absolutely no business experience let alone knowledge about the law. The threat of using his attorney was childish.

I do not believe that came from any corporation. If it did, they should really think about selling it to a more adept company.

 

[ColdZero]

Ahhh, another company that believes that by throwing around the L word that they can get their way. I'm sure this is a pain in the neck for , but its nice to see a case where these companies are legally and morally wrong...and the defendant has the means to squash them. I hope ardOCP fvcking pwns them.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

3dmock, you say?

- M4H

 

[Mem]

I do agree with HardOCP on this one,they have a right to their honest opinion,if Futuremark think HardOCP comments are wrong then they should get into specifics and try to counteract the negative comments, as we can see they have not even tried to do that.

Now what do I think of 3Dmark05?...hehe not even bothered to install it,I like to use real games for benchmarking.

.

 

[Regs]

Now what do I think of 3Dmark05?...hehe not even bothered to installed it,I like to use real games for benchmarking.

.

Here here. Nothing like going through CPU Test 2 at 3-8 FPS on a A64 CPU. Or watching the screen come to a crawl just to watch the butterfly in Test #4. Does that butterfly turn into a demon on a mars base? The engines they use for these benchmarks suck. Maybe if those dick weeds actually got the rights to use some actual game engines it would be worth the download demo.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
3dmock, you say?

- M4H

Where will it turn up next?
Third thread I've viewed so far today with that picture.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
3dmock, you say?

- M4H

Where will it turn up next?
Third thread I've viewed so far today with that picture.

Coincidence that there's been a few dozen "OMG guYz wUt iz ur 3DMark05 sc0re lolololollolo!!/1!1" threads today? I think not.

3DMock is great for eye-candy. That's all.

- M4H

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

I do stand by the opinion that 3DMark05 "sucks" as a benchmark based on the fact that it does not tell me anything specifically about the games I play. Did 3DMark tell us how DOOM3 was going to play? No. Will 3DMark tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play on a given system? No. Does that mean 3DMark is worthless? Surely not. 3DMark has a ton of great and fun uses; I just don't find any of them as a benefit to our readers or myself directly. On that note, the entire 3DMark series can be a great tool for end users testing tweaks and such on their systems and it can be a great source of fun competition across the Net.

Precisely how I feel about it I long ago dubbed it 3DMock for those very reasons. This is further proof that they are just a bunch of profiteering assclowns. Go Kyle! We got your back brudda

does doom3 tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play? NO. will HL2 tell us how Doom3 will play? NO.

sorry, but as the old adage goes, "if it's good for the goose....", so applying the same logic, doom3, etc. also "sucks" for benchmarks. his selective logic just doesn't cut it.

while i'd certainly agree that an actual game holds a bit more relevance, even within a "real" game, performance will vary depending on which part of the game you choose to benchmark. just look at far cry - depending on the area chosen, and advantage can be shown for ati or nvidia...

no single benchmark is indicitive of overall performance, however the more benchmarks that are utilized, the more accurate the overall impression of system performance will be.

on the other stuff, i'd have to side with kyle, as he's certainly entitled to voice his opinion, and see nothing slanderous regarding the article in question. will be interesting to see his new, upcoming article on FM.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
does doom3 tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play? NO. will HL2 tell us how Doom3 will play? NO.

sorry, but as the old adage goes, "if it's good for the goose....", so applying the same logic, doom3, etc. also "sucks" for benchmarks. his selective logic just doesn't cut it.

while i'd certainly agree that an actual game holds a bit more relevance, even within a "real" game, performance will vary depending on which part of the game you choose to benchmark. just look at far cry - depending on the area chosen, and advantage can be shown for ati or nvidia...

A 3DMark score gives no idea about performance in any real game. It's not the same logic, because a Doom3 benchmark gives some idea about performance in not just D3, but also in D3 engine games and for other game engines that are optimized along similar lines. Same with HL2. If you see a review with D3, UT2K4, Far Cry, and (someday) HL2 you have a very good idea of how that video card will work for games now and for the next couple of years. What does adding a 3DMark score tell you?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
does doom3 tell us how HL2 or STALKER will play? NO. will HL2 tell us how Doom3 will play? NO.

sorry, but as the old adage goes, "if it's good for the goose....", so applying the same logic, doom3, etc. also "sucks" for benchmarks. his selective logic just doesn't cut it.

while i'd certainly agree that an actual game holds a bit more relevance, even within a "real" game, performance will vary depending on which part of the game you choose to benchmark. just look at far cry - depending on the area chosen, and advantage can be shown for ati or nvidia...

A 3DMark score gives no idea about performance in any real game. It's not the same logic, because a Doom3 benchmark gives some idea about performance in not just D3, but also in D3 engine games and for other game engines that are optimized along similar lines. Same with HL2. If you see a review with D3, UT2K4, Far Cry, and (someday) HL2 you have a very good idea of how that video card will work for games now and for the next couple of years. What does adding a 3DMark score tell you?

It gives you (theoretically) a score that is specifically NOT tied to a particular game engine, but indicative of a video card's performance wrt a specific DirectX/shader level. If you want to measure overall raw graphics performance in a stable, repeatable manner, this is not a bad thing.

If you want to ballpark how well a card might run a future game engine utilizing a lot of SM2.0b/SM3.0 shaders, 3DMark05 would give you an estimate.

And as for your example -- take your scores in D3, UT2K4, Far Cry, and HL2/Source. What does that tell you about, specifically, STALKER (which is probably not any more demanding than HL2, but could be very different than all those games)? Not much -- at least not a whole lot more than 3DMark03 would.

It's NOT a replacement for application-level benchmarking, but it is a useful measurement precisely because it ISN'T tied to a particular game or engine, and it's more sensitive to small performance changes than a lot of game engines are. It also has features (like specific frame capture, and batch run modes) that are useful for doing IQ comparisons and the like (well, at least the Pro version does), which a lot of game engines just don't supply. The folks trying to look cool by spouting "3DMock is teh suXX0r!!!" for the millionth time are barking up the wrong tree; synthetic benchmarking programs are just tools, and they have their uses.

And I fully agree that Kyle from |H| can say whatever the hell he wants about FM and 3DMark, and any legal action that FM takes will likely be thrown out. But if I had spent a whole lot of time and money developing a new benchmarking program, and then a major hardware site said on their front page (with no further explanation!) that it "sucks as a benchmark", then I'd be pretty mad, too.

 

[dmw16]

Hope they dont sue all you guys

 

[jkj]

This is ridiculous

 

[Zebo]

It's pretty fusked up when companies sue to quiet free speech, kill innovation (linux/sco/MS), or just crush the compitition under a mound of legal fees. Happening more and more these days

tip: Im too old but all of you still in school should become a lawyer and save yourself tons in legal fees if you ever plan to be entrepreneurial ..

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
3dmock, you say?

- M4H

Where will it turn up next?
Third thread I've viewed so far today with that picture.

Coincidence that there's been a few dozen "OMG guYz wUt iz ur 3DMark05 sc0re lolololollolo!!/1!1" threads today? I think not.

3DMock is great for eye-candy. That's all.

- M4H

Slow eye candy

 

[Adn4n]

Silly Finlanders, or are they Fins? I'd be scared if I saw a fin in the water.