[3dcenter] GK104 specs

[OILFIELDTRASH]

not that I'm holding my for this to happen, but... There may be a reason why there are no WHQL drivers ready for the 7k series. Drivers could easily plop another 10-15% performance increase just in time to ruin the Kepler realease.

I know this gets said almost every generation but maybe, just maybe.. /speculation

I've never heard such optimism over a driver release. lol

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You must have missed the Bulldozer release, AMD always has something magical like bios/drivers/patches in the works.

Bulldozer was the first time I heard of CPU drivers though.

I'm not saying AMD won't increase performance with driver updates, that's a given.

But generally those updates fix problems, not increase performance where it is already good.

 

[Tempered81]

if gk104 is 299 or 399 and 7970 owners wanna switch to pocket some cash, you better sell fast on the day you see the real benches. I expect it to be +5% over the 7970, but I doubt it will have an aditional +35% via overclocking. Therefore, considering overclocking, 7970 will still be the best, IMO. NV will probably get them on price/performance, and ATI will probably release a "stop-gap" 4890/XTX/PE style 7970 to keep the crown.

 

[Keysplayr]

Wow, we don't know anything about Kepler, oh except that it has a 340mm2 die and it's impossible to get that level of performance out of that size die (which is about the same size as Tahiti). I'm sorry I added to the rumor mill, since clearly it's causing folks to lose their ability to think logically.

It is? Heh, look at every review on 7970 and you'll see die size described as 365mm2 or somthing like that. Now you'll see people posting that it is 352mm2. This is well after launch and reviews. 340mm2 rumor means nothing at all.

 

[Crap Daddy]

Therefore, considering overclocking, 7970 will still be the best, IMO. NV will probably get them on price/performance, and ATI will probably release a "stop-gap" 4890/XTX/PE style 7970 to keep the crown.

And then GK100 will be out so it's a neverending story. Yes, I also think it will be just a little bit faster (but enough to market it as the fastest GPU) than the 7970 due to higher stock clocks and benches at 1080/1200p.

 

[tviceman]

not that I'm holding my for this to happen, but... There may be a reason why there are no WHQL drivers ready for the 7k series.

It's the same reason AMD hasn't been able to code multi-threaded rendering yet.

 

[JAG87]

You miss my point though: I've already had that performance for a month, and will have had it for several months by the time Kepler is here. So yes, if Kepler comes out and it's as fast as a 7970, it doesn't really affect me. If it's slower but has better price/performance, again, still doesn't really affect me. Therefore I, and many other 7970 owners, aren't impressed by Kepler, understand?

Wow a whole month, LOL. You pay over $500 for a GPU with the expectation for it not to be the fastest card for at least a year? Nice investment! Try a few years buddy.

 

[boxleitnerb]

IF GK104 comes close to HD7970 for 299, many 7970 owners will be pissed. There is no sugarcoating that. Personally I would never spend 500 bucks without knowing what the competition brings to the table. Sure, it could be 6 months late and be a lame duck. But it could also be only 1-2 months late and have a significant better price/perf ratio. 500 bucks are just too much to take that risk - imo.
After 2 months I would get anxious with the mouse pointer over the order button, but it has been only 5 weeks since release. People either have too much money or are too impatient.

 

[blackened23]

It's the same reason AMD hasn't been able to code multi-threaded rendering yet.

Nobody cares because only 1 game uses it, you brought bf3 up before but it does not support MT rendering. (but does support HT now..)

Unless you REALLY want civ 5 running at 300 fps? D: Don't care, no craps given.

 

[tviceman]

It's fun watching hd7970-early-adopters and/or AMD-fanboys defending the hd7970's launch price and trying to discredit the performance and price point rumors attached to GK104.

You miss my point though: I've already had that performance for a month, and will have had it for several months by the time Kepler is here. So yes, if Kepler comes out and it's as fast as a 7970, it doesn't really affect me. If it's slower but has better price/performance, again, still doesn't really affect me. Therefore I, and many other 7970 owners, aren't impressed by Kepler, understand?

Nope comprehension fail. Defend, errr I mean, explain more please.

IF GK104 comes close to HD7970 for 299, many 7970 owners will be pissed. There is no sugarcoating that. Personally I would never spend 500 bucks without knowing what the competition brings to the table. Sure, it could be 6 months late and be a lame duck. But it could also be only 1-2 months late and have a significant better price/perf ratio. 500 bucks are just too much to take that risk - imo.
After 2 months I would get anxious with the mouse pointer over the order button, but it has been only 5 weeks since release. People either have too much money or are too impatient.

No, you're wrong. They won't be pissed because MrK says that hd7970 owners will have had 2 months to get the extra $200-250 of enjoyment out of their card and therefore will have no reason to be mad and won't understand why Kepler is a good buy because it's impossible.

 

[tviceman]

Nobody cares because only 1 game uses it, you brought bf3 up before but it does not support MT rendering. (but does support HT now..)

Unless you REALLY want civ 5 running at 300 fps? D: Don't care, no craps given.

Until more games come out that use it??? Hmmm funny I remember the crazy Nvidia defenders saying the same thing about DX11 and tessellation when the hd5870 came out.

 

[blackened23]

IF GK104 comes close to HD7970 for 299, many 7970 owners will be pissed. There is no sugarcoating that. Personally I would never spend 500 bucks without knowing what the competition brings to the table. Sure, it could be 6 months late and be a lame duck. But it could also be only 1-2 months late and have a significant better price/perf ratio. 500 bucks are just too much to take that risk - imo.

I don't think anyone will be pissed, who cares? Its the cycle of things - i'll happily buy a 299$ GTX 680 that comes to close to a 7970.

Unfortunately you are completely ignoring history if you think NV will release a GK104 based 680 for 299$, when has nvidia ever cared about bringing value to the table with their x80 parts?

I'll go ahead and call it that this won't happen, anyone care to take a bet with a steam gifted game? 299$ I'll give you a game of your choice, and if its 399$ or higher I get the game of my choice Who wants in?

Never,

 

[Arzachel]

Spinning what? Your arguments have nothing.
Explain how I proved his point and please point out exactly where I ever said I
Believe any rumors.
You cant. You could try, but it will require some context twisting on your part while I
Sit here and shoot straight. Have at it.

So you can throw away every point made against you by feigning ignorance? How lovely.

Let me spell it out then:

Wow, I guess those who have owned GTX580's and HD6970's for the past year are super fortunate then. I understand the need to justify/defend a purchase for a consumer. Nobody wants to feel like they just threw money into the garbage. I do not think this "argument" has much relevance though because like I said, people have been enjoying other cards for a year or more and able to game the latest on highest settings. And here you are touting one month soon to be 2 or 3. Not flying much.

You compare the GTX580 and the HD6970 with the HD7970 by ignoring the qualifier "HD7970 performance" and instead opting to go for a strawman "highest settings". Even then, the HD7970 loses the comparison only if you assume that Nvidia is going to come up with something better in a few months.

 

[tviceman]

I don't think anyone will be pissed, who cares? Its the cycle of things - i'll happily buy a 299$ GTX 680 that comes to close to a 7970.

Unfortunately you are completely ignoring history if you think NV will release a GK104 based 680 for 299$, when has nvidia ever cared about bringing value to the table with their x80 parts?

I'll go ahead and call it that this won't happen, anyone care to take a bet with a steam gifted game? 299$ I'll give you a game of your choice, and if its 399$ or higher I get the game of my choice Who wants in?

Never,

Clarify the rules a little more and I'll take that bet.

 

[blackened23]

Clarify the rules a little more and I'll take that bet.

If the GTX680 is based on the GK104:

If 299$ or less i'll gift you a steam game

Vice versa if its lets say....379.99 or more

Fun competition?

 

[Lonbjerg]

Until more games come out that use it??? Hmmm funny I remember the crazy Nvidia defenders saying the same thing about DX11 and tessellation when the hd5870 came out.

Actually Fuddy talked about "to much tesselation"...I guess this is "to much multithreaded"...put that next to "to much physics"...and it seems AMD (and fanclub) thinks everyone else does "Too Much" TM

 

[tviceman]

If the GTX680 is based on the GK104:

If 299$ or less i'll gift you a steam game

Vice versa if its lets say....379.99 or more

Fun competition?

That isn't quite clear enough for me. How about this. Based on the gaming (nonsynthetic) benchmarks Anandtech runs, I say the top end GK104 card (whatever it is called) will perform on average within 5% of an hd7970 and will have an MSRP of $349 or lower. If the MSRP is a penny higher or the hd7970 is on average at least 5.001% faster than Anandtech's benchmarks then you win.

$30 steam game of winners choice.

How does this sound?

 

[boxleitnerb]

I don't think anyone will be pissed, who cares? Its the cycle of things - i'll happily buy a 299$ GTX 680 that comes to close to a 7970.

Unfortunately you are completely ignoring history if you think NV will release a GK104 based 680 for 299$, when has nvidia ever cared about bringing value to the table with their x80 parts?

I'll go ahead and call it that this won't happen, anyone care to take a bet with a steam gifted game? 299$ I'll give you a game of your choice, and if its 399$ or higher I get the game of my choice Who wants in?

Never,

You are completely ignoring, that names mean squat. AMD changed their naming scheme, Nvidia can do the same if they see fit. If a true highend 690 (single GPU) comes out 1-2 months later for the usual 499-599, they would not dare to anger their customers this way. And as I and many others have told you guys over and over again: 8800GT, 4200Ti, 6800GT...great value. It is better to get the publicity for great value products and steal significant business from your competitor than to earn a bit more for a little while. Increased sales (demand is way higher at 300$ than at 400+$) could easily offset the lower profit.

It's only logical that people don't want to hear they overpayed for something. Hurts the ego. It doesn't change the facts, though. Maybe Nvidia will charge 349, but not a cent more - you have my word. That is 200$ less than the 7970 MSRP.

tviceman, that is a dangerous bet!
GK104 could fall within 10% of 7970 and still be a great product at 299-349.

 

[Arzachel]

Wow a whole month, LOL. You pay over $500 for a GPU with the expectation for it not to be the fastest card for at least a year? Nice investment! Try a few years buddy.

This will be a great quote to pull up, once GK100/GK110 comes out.

EDIT: WAIT, you got two GTX480 in SLI! This is great

 

[tviceman]

tviceman, that is a dangerous bet!
GK104 could fall within 10% of 7970 and still be a great product at 299-349.

You are right it may very well end up that way (and would still be a good buy vs. the 79xx cards current prices) but I don't think he would take the bet with 10%.

 

[Grooveriding]

Hey guys, nvidia is going to release a $300 card faster than a 7970! Yeah they're good like that and got all our backs, they just want us to have an uber card on the cheap and to hell with their profits.

The perfect rumour to keep nvidia fanboys waiting with baited breath.

This will go two ways, the card can compete with a 7970 and will cost $400-$500 or the card will be a 580 +/- and cost $300-$350. If you expect it to be significantly faster than a 7970, you're going to want the GK100 not GK104, unless this card has a 400mm2+ die, it's not going to bring the pain.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

It is? Heh, look at every review on 7970 and you'll see die size described as 365mm2 or somthing like that. Now you'll see people posting that it is 352mm2. This is well after launch and reviews. 340mm2 rumor means nothing at all.

Because that IS the size, and the reviews got it wrong.

It's AMD that's saying the die size for Tahiti is 352mm^2, and I'm sure their engineers know more about that than the reviewers. None of the reviewers bothered to correct it, either.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Hey guys, nvidia is going to release a $300 card faster than a 7970! Yeah they're good like that and got all our backs, they just want us to have an uber card on the cheap and to hell with their profits.

The perfect rumour to keep nvidia fanboys waiting with baited breath.

This will go two ways, the card can compete with a 7970 and will cost $400-$500 or the card will be a 580 +/- and cost $300-$350. If you expect it to be significantly faster than a 7970, you're going to want the GK100 not GK104, unless this card has a 400mm2+ die, it's not going to bring the pain.

You are dead wrong. Think about it for a second (compared to 580):

• significantly smaller die
• cheaper PCB, power circuitry and cooling

This card should be only 50-100$ cheaper than a 580 if it performs similarly??? What value is that for a next-gen card? In this market segment, that has never happened to my knowledge. How much was the 8800GT, how much the GTX260, 460? You insist and insist on such nonsense but you don't bring any logical explanations to the table.

GK104 won't be faster than Tahiti XT. It will be a little bit slower but very much cheaper.

If you still insist, answer these questions:
1. If GK104 goes for 400-500$, what will they charge for GK110? How many people would buy that?
2. What card with a 350mm chip has ever cost this much since we have reached the feasibility of 500mm2 dies? Where is the precedent?
3. When they release cards with a performance that you can get today, like the GTX570 or the HD6970 and charge roughly the same how is that a good value? New products will have to compete with existing products, even if they are EOL. Stock still exists.

 

[notty22]

Because that IS the size, and the reviews got it wrong.

It's AMD that's saying the die size for Tahiti is 352mm^2, and I'm sure their engineers know more about that than the reviewers. None of the reviewers bothered to correct it, either.

It could be one or the other. It very well may be a typo or miscommunication from engineering to marketing (or intentional) in the document you are citing. This did just literally happen with Bulldozer.
Something similar happened with the reporting of die size of gf104.

Also Nvidia came to market with the GF104-gtx 460 1gb, which was not released in full form until a reincarnation -GF114-gtx 560TI. Even with a partially disabled die, stock @675 was slower than a HD 5850 and @900mhz o/c was equal to a HD 5870.
This could easily play out again.

 

[Arzachel]

You are dead wrong. Think about it for a second (compared to 580):

• significantly smaller die
• cheaper PCB, power circuitry and cooling

This card should be only 50-100$ cheaper than a 580 if it performs similarly??? What value is that for a next-gen card? In this market segment, that has never happened to my knowledge. How much was the 8800GT, how much the GTX260, 460? You insist and insist on such nonsense but you don't bring any logical explanations to the table.



GK104 won't be faster than Tahiti XT. It will be a little bit slower but very much cheaper.

Companies NEVER pass the savings to the customer if they can price according to the competition. Do you expect Ivy Bridge to be far cheaper than Sandy?