$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[ponyo]

You go Elon!

Elon was in Shanghai delivering the first 10 MIC Model 3 to customers. Here's Elon dancing on stage during the delivery ceremony.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1214485522841649152

 

[ponyo]

 

[bigi]

Apparently, the dance has been appreciated.

 

[ponyo]

haha. This is awesome! Tesla cars will be able to talk. Buff Mage is Elon. He changed his Twitter handle again. He's in playful mood again. Q4 earnings are going to rock.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216198285792358400

 

[ponyo]

(Made in China or MIC) Model 3 is selling like gangbusters in China right now. Q1 China production basically sold out already and we're only couple days in the Q1 quarter. lol. China also said they're not going to eliminate electric car subsidy in July this year like they planned but will instead keep the subsidy.

It's sad China "gets" and "understand" that EVs are the future while the current US admin doesn't seem to understand. At least Tesla is US company.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1216974215997358080

 

[ponyo]

Porsche Taycan Turbo S estimated total EPA range is out now. 192 miles Total Range.
I told you it would be under 200 miles. lol. $200,000 Porsche with 192 miles range. And this is supposedly from the best of the best competitor. The legacy automakers are in big trouble.

 

[thedarkwolf]

TLDW 70mph how far can they go. The video uses WLPT numbers but somebody made a chart using EPA

Tesla Model 3 322 mi 270 mi 84%

Kia e-Niro 239 mi 255 mi 106%

Jaguar i-pace 234 mi 223 mi 95%

Nissan Leaf 226 mi 208 mi 92%

Audi e-tron 204 mi 206 mi 101%

I'm waiting to see some real world tests of the Taycan before shitting all over it. I'm sure there will be hundreds of videos up on youtube soon.

 

[Commodus]

TLDW 70mph how far can they go. The video uses WLPT numbers but somebody made a chart using EPA

Tesla Model 3 322 mi 270 mi 84%

Kia e-Niro 239 mi 255 mi 106%

Jaguar i-pace 234 mi 223 mi 95%

Nissan Leaf 226 mi 208 mi 92%

Audi e-tron 204 mi 206 mi 101%

I'm waiting to see some real world tests of the Taycan before shitting all over it. I'm sure there will be hundreds of videos up on youtube soon.

There are a few reviews (or at least, early drives with enough info to make an informed decision) already. Autocar has one, for example. The gist seems to be that it's a great performance car and might appeal if you prefer Porsche's driving characteristics or interior design, but it clearly lacks the range and some of the technological wizardry of Tesla. And of course, you can get a Model 3 for much less than the currently available Taycans.

 

[thedarkwolf]

TLDW well I skimmed it. Didn't see anything about him doing a steady 70mph how far can you go test in that video. All the videos I've seen people talk about the range but don't actually test it. I'm waiting for Bjorn or somebody to post a real world range test. Lots of stuff flying around the net about that being more like 250 but again I want a trusted person to test it.

 

[Kaido]

Porsche Taycan Turbo S estimated total EPA range is out now. 192 miles Total Range.
I told you it would be under 200 miles. lol. $200,000 Porsche with 192 miles range. And this is supposedly from the best of the best competitor. The legacy automakers are in big trouble.

Yeah but you don't understand, it's a Porsche

 

[Brainonska511]

I saw this in the Washington Post that makes some interesting comments about the state of the electric car market, particularly in some of the risks Tesla may be taking with their batteries to get more mileage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/10/tesla-battery-range/

Tesla’s Model 3 carries roughly 24 percent higher pack energy density as compared with a 2018 Nissan Leaf, according to data compiled by BloombergNEF research. That resulted in about 90 miles more range, though weight considerations and Nissan’s smaller battery size also factor in.

Tesla also uses a different battery chemistry — aluminum, in addition to the standard nickel and cobalt — than other major automakers. The battery researchers said that choice has led to maximum range because of a higher-capacity battery chemistry, though downsides included a higher fire risk and shorter cycle life, or life span over hundreds of charges.

Other automakers have opted for manganese instead of aluminum, with lower storage capacity, portending less range but potentially longer life cycles, those researchers said.

The tradeoff for Tesla: higher energy densities and higher-capacity materials tend to put out more heat, requiring more advanced cooling systems and temperature management systems to preserve the battery, the researchers and analysts said.

Will Chueh, a Stanford University’s Department of Materials Science and Engineering professor who focuses on lithium-ion batteries, said Tesla’s choice of battery material also represents another bet: more range means less charging, offsetting some concerns about cycle life. Consumers won’t have to charge their cars as much if they have 300 miles of available range, so Tesla can afford to use a battery with a shorter cycle life, in addition to taking proactive measures such as active cooling to preserve the life of the battery. “The larger the battery is the fewer times you have to cycle it," he added.

 

[Kaido]

I saw this in the Washington Post that makes some interesting comments about the state of the electric car market, particularly in some of the risks Tesla may be taking with their batteries to get more mileage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/10/tesla-battery-range/

Yup...Tesla wants to be & remain the range leader. However, on Twitter, Musk recommended keeping your battery between 30% to 80% to get the most life out of it. iirc the Tesla smartphone app includes a way to limit charging.

That sounds kind of silly to do that, but it's kind of the same way we use phones, in practice - when they start getting low, we charge them up, and we use them to varying degrees of capacity throughout the day. I still think it's dumb to have to do that, but if you think about all of the laptops you've ever seen or used that have had dead batteries from being plugged in all the time, it starts to make more sense...

 

[CJones33]

I saw this in the Washington Post that makes some interesting comments about the state of the electric car market, particularly in some of the risks Tesla may be taking with their batteries to get more mileage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/10/tesla-battery-range/

It's an interesting balance to see car companies deal with when it comes to battery life and range. It does make sense for companies making new EVs to focus on making batteries last as long as possible. But then Tesla blows them away with their range. Case in point with Porsche and the Taycan and how its range is so much lower than the Model S. I've seen a lot of people who are potential Taycan owners that are worried about the range.

 

[Mandres]

The fact is, the batteries in the Tesla are objectively better than the ones in the Leaf - provided they're properly cooled and monitored during charging. Tesla aren't really "taking risks", they're just using higher-tech, more power dense batteries. There are tradeoffs - the Tesla packs are really heavy because of the can around every cell and the complex cooling system. The Leaf uses pouch cells stacked on top of each other with no active cooling (at least on the older models, I'm not sure on the 2018+). It's analogous to a 4 cylinder naturally-aspirated engine in a civic, compared to a twin-turbocharged v8 in the new Cadillac. Are Cadillac "taking risks" using a much more complicated engine?

 

[Kaido]

The fact is, the batteries in the Tesla are objectively better than the ones in the Leaf - provided they're properly cooled and monitored during charging. Tesla aren't really "taking risks", they're just using higher-tech, more power dense batteries. There are tradeoffs - the Tesla packs are really heavy because of the can around every cell and the complex cooling system. The Leaf uses pouch cells stacked on top of each other with no active cooling (at least on the older models, I'm not sure on the 2018+). It's analogous to a 4 cylinder naturally-aspirated engine in a civic, compared to a twin-turbocharged v8 in the new Cadillac. Are Cadillac "taking risks" using a much more complicated engine?

I wonder about that, because Volvo has a Supercharged, Turbocharged, Electrified 4-cylinder setup:

Volvo XC90 'Twin Engine' Tech: Plug-In Electric, Turbocharged AND Supercharged

Volvo's long-term powertrain strategy is all about four-cylinder engines. Gone are the firm's long-standing five-cylinder gasoline and diesel units, and gone is the old XC90's V-8--replaced, in the next-generation car, with a power unit Volvo calls 'Twin Engine'. Using an intriguing mix of...

www.greencarreports.com

That seems like an awful lot of stuff to go wrong & seems like it would be more expensive to fix, haha

 

[Mandres]

I wonder about that, because Volvo has a Supercharged, Turbocharged, Electrified 4-cylinder setup:

Volvo XC90 'Twin Engine' Tech: Plug-In Electric, Turbocharged AND Supercharged

Volvo's long-term powertrain strategy is all about four-cylinder engines. Gone are the firm's long-standing five-cylinder gasoline and diesel units, and gone is the old XC90's V-8--replaced, in the next-generation car, with a power unit Volvo calls 'Twin Engine'. Using an intriguing mix of...

www.greencarreports.com

That seems like an awful lot of stuff to go wrong & seems like it would be more expensive to fix, haha

Yeesh, I'm so ready for simple electric cars to take over completely. I can't imagine even trying to change spark plugs on a rube goldberg machine like that...

 

[manly]

Yup...Tesla wants to be & remain the range leader. However, on Twitter, Musk recommended keeping your battery between 30% to 80% to get the most life out of it. iirc the Tesla smartphone app includes a way to limit charging.

That sounds kind of silly to do that, but it's kind of the same way we use phones, in practice - when they start getting low, we charge them up, and we use them to varying degrees of capacity throughout the day. I still think it's dumb to have to do that, but if you think about all of the laptops you've ever seen or used that have had dead batteries from being plugged in all the time, it starts to make more sense...

My Dell XPS 15 allows you to configure (in firmware) the maximum charge (I use 80%), and the low water mark to begin recharging (I use 50%). Every phone manufacturer should support this setting (IIRC rooted Android had this battery tweak). For some reason, XPS batteries are considered poor at long-term reliability, although I don't go through many charge cycles myself.

I thought BEVs already implement this kind of logic? Like 100% on a Tesla isn't actually 100%, and 0% isn't actually empty. That they purposely keep the charge levels between say 20-80% of actual capacity of the pack. 20-80 is purely conjecture on my part, but everyone knows that deep discharging a BEV pack is extremely bad for it over the long run.

 

[ponyo]

Hell must have frozen over. I just saw a news feed that said Tesla and the state of Michigan have reached settlement on blocking Tesla sales. Michigan like many states have blocked Tesla from selling direct or servicing Tesla in the state of Michigan. So Tesla sued Michigan and the lawsuit kept getting pushed back. Michigan knows they're wrong but they can't pass up corrupt GM, Ford, Chrysler, and dealership bribe money so they have barred and banned Tesla so far. Settlement filing is expected as soon as this Wednesday. We don't yet know the terms but this is small win for Tesla and consumers living in Michigan. Freaking corrupt politicians.

 

[zinfamous]

Hell must have frozen over. I just saw a news feed that said Tesla and the state of Michigan have reached settlement on blocking Tesla sales. Michigan like many states have blocked Tesla from selling direct or servicing Tesla in the state of Michigan. So Tesla sued Michigan and the lawsuit kept getting pushed back. Michigan knows they're wrong but they can't pass up corrupt GM, Ford, Chrysler, and dealership bribe money so they have barred and banned Tesla so far. Settlement filing is expected as soon as this Wednesday. We don't yet know the terms but this is small win for Tesla and consumers living in Michigan. Freaking corrupt politicians.

I honestly don't belabor Michigan on any of this. Regardless of whether or not it is fair to consumers, that is literally the industry in Michigan. That is their identity. Corrupt or not, they are going to defend it to the bitter end, because it is what they are. I get it, and I think they should fight it. I can say that they are wrong and stupid, but can also support them in this fight. They are defending what they are.

 

[Kaido]

I honestly don't belabor Michigan on any of this. Regardless of whether or not it is fair to consumers, that is literally the industry in Michigan. That is their identity. Corrupt or not, they are going to defend it to the bitter end, because it is what they are. I get it, and I think they should fight it. I can say that they are wrong and stupid, but can also support them in this fight. They are defending what they are.

Well, to clarify:

1. Automotive manufacturing is the industry in Michigan
2. Tesla sells cars directly to consumers with no dealerships, which is the real issue at hand

tbh, every time I've purchased a car from a dealership, it's been a terrible experience. And I don't always necessarily use the dealer for maintenance, as general mechanics, body shops, and lube places can do the work too, so I'm not hung up on getting over-charged by the dealership for support, either.

Being able to order the exact car configuration you want off a website is genius imo. So while I understand why legacy manufacturers are fighting legal battles, I don't necessarily agree with their premise to begin with, because it's kind of a crappy model. Going to a dealership to get a car is a stressful experience for most people...I think more dealerships should offer the online model with free delivery!

You can kinda-sorta do it if you know what car you want & go through the Internet sales portion of your local dealership...you can do all of the negotiation via email & have them deliver the car to you. Most people don't know that option is available, however, whereas with Tesla, that's just about the only option (unless you live in a state that allows the stores & live within driving distance of one).

Personally, I'm definitely open to change. My state bans the sales of Tesla vehicles in-state, so you have to go to NYC to pick up your car, which is so dumb lol.

 

[Commodus]

I honestly don't belabor Michigan on any of this. Regardless of whether or not it is fair to consumers, that is literally the industry in Michigan. That is their identity. Corrupt or not, they are going to defend it to the bitter end, because it is what they are. I get it, and I think they should fight it. I can say that they are wrong and stupid, but can also support them in this fight. They are defending what they are.

I would be with you if it weren't for the fact that this genuinely hurts buyers as long as it exists. They're arguing for a system explicitly designed to trick customers into paying more than they should, and more recently to exclude competition with superior technology and shopping experiences. And why? It's all in the name of keeping what's likely a relatively small number of people in unnecessary jobs.

 

[ponyo]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...tlement-michigan-ban-blocking-sales/41038913/

 

[IronWing]

I would be with you if it weren't for the fact that this genuinely hurts buyers as long as it exists. They're arguing for a system explicitly designed to trick customers into paying more than they should, and more recently to exclude competition with superior technology and shopping experiences. And why? It's all in the name of keeping what's likely a relatively small number of people in unnecessary jobs.

The largest auto dealer in my fair city is also the largest campaign donor. It ain't about the mechanics.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Being able to order the exact car configuration you want off a website is genius imo. So while I understand why legacy manufacturers are fighting legal battles, I don't necessarily agree with their premise to begin with, because it's kind of a crappy model. Going to a dealership to get a car is a stressful experience for most people...I think more dealerships should offer the online model with free delivery!

You can kinda-sorta do it if you know what car you want & go through the Internet sales portion of your local dealership...you can do all of the negotiation via email & have them deliver the car to you. Most people don't know that option is available, however, whereas with Tesla, that's just about the only option (unless you live in a state that allows the stores & live within driving distance of one).

I agree with you that Tesla's online sales configuration is very easy. But as you stated, you can and have been able to for a long time, simply click build vehicle on a manufacturers site and have it send that build to the closest dealer. Which from there the dealer would contact you and put your order in. Most sites now even try to match the options you selected to vehicles that may be already on a lot.

The person who would buy a Tesla and be comfortable with its sales format probably already understands they can do nearly the same thing with any other vehicle. I'm also curious if you'd like that model as much if there were actual competitors to Tesla. Online sales the way you want it done don't allow you to negotiate. Did you pay msrp for your Mustang because with Tesla's sales model you would have.

 

[Commodus]

The largest auto dealer in my fair city is also the largest campaign donor. It ain't about the mechanics.

I think we can agree on that... it's probably about protecting the higher-ups and their cushier jobs.