$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Wait, you're getting excessive wear at only 20k miles on non-performance tires? That's nuts! I mean, I know EV's are heavy, but I'd have to buy new tires every year at that rate lol.

Awkwardly enough, the Model 3 weighs less than my old Ford Taurus SHO. My SHO had all the options (that it could have given some options excluded others) and I believe weighed around 4200lbs. The RWD Model 3 is a bit lighter; I believe around 3800lbs, and the AWD is closer to the SHO's weight. But yeah... I was a bit surprised when the mobile tech told me that. Although, I was a little less surprised when I saw that others had the same problem. I don't think that my driving would have that large of an effect on things.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Wait, you're getting excessive wear at only 20k miles on non-performance tires? That's nuts! I mean, I know EV's are heavy, but I'd have to buy new tires every year at that rate lol.

Like I said - love the idea, really want one, but the bottom-line realities for the end-user scare me a little bit. Mostly, it wouldn't be an issue, but when you do have an issue, it seems like it's really easy for it to turn into a major headache. Hopefully by the time I finish paying off my current ICE whip, the Cybertruck will be available lol!
Tesla cars are faster than most sports cars while weighing more. Because it's so fun, many Tesla owners floor their cars to experience the rollercoaster thrill more often than other car owners. And you add that EVs are heavy, it makes sense tires will wear out faster. You can easily wear out your tires in a single day if you take your ICE car to the racetrack

Many people report accelerated tire wear on Tesla. But if you drive like a grandma, your tires will last longer. You're going to have the same issue with the Model Y or Cybertruck. If tire wear is that important, buy slow EV. They do exist.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
So... is it just me, or does Elon's new idea of building batteries into the frame of the vehicle as structural support sound like a horrible idea for future model releases? This is probably going to make replacing them a pain in the ass when the cells eventually go bad.
I think Tesla's battery in frame design is going to revolutionize how EV vehicles are built. Like Elon said, if other companies don't do this, they're not going to be able to compete with Tesla in the future.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I think Tesla's battery in frame design is going to revolutionize how EV vehicles are built. Like Elon said, if other companies don't do this, they're not going to be able to compete with Tesla in the future.

We also risk turning future Tesla vehicles into something that's only disposable instead of repairable if done incorrectly. I don't think that we want $40,000 electric cars to be like $2,000 Apple Macbooks, where it basically costs the same to replace the whole unit instead of repairing an inaccessible bad part buried inside of the guts of it.
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
We also risk turning future Tesla vehicles into something that's only disposable instead of repairable if done incorrectly. I don't think that we want $40,000 electric cars to be like $2,000 Apple Macbooks, where it basically costs the same to replace the whole unit instead of repairing an inaccessible bad part buried inside of the guts of it.
That's the future. This could reduce the need for so many bodyshops. Tesla already said this will reduce the work space needed in the factory by 1/3 allowing Tesla to make more cars in smaller spaces. You're going to see Gigafactories in Berlin and Austin each pump out more than 2 million vehicles a year once it's fully scaled and operational. These big casting machines are going to stamp and pump out cars like matchbox toy factory. And FSD should greatly reduce the number of accidents. And Tesla insurance should cover you in rare event you're in an accident.
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,998
63
91

I don’t understand why it was need to be part of FSD. My 2019 Terrain already does this, my old bosses 2017 F-150 does this. Is that not a feature that even the most basic and cheapest model of Tesla has? It should for the price. But my Terrain also does parallel and perpendicular parking.
 

mztykal

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
6,708
48
91
My Mercedes does the sky view parking and parallel parks itself...should be a standard feature.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,672
578
126
I don’t understand why it was need to be part of FSD. My 2019 Terrain already does this, my old bosses 2017 F-150 does this. Is that not a feature that even the most basic and cheapest model of Tesla has? It should for the price. But my Terrain also does parallel and perpendicular parking.

Don't you think that's actually telling of the same gating Tesla is doing, but perhaps to an even more extreme limit? For instance on the F-150 you already *have* to get the high end trims to get the 360 degree camera option (Lariat, King Ranch, etc.). Then you have to get the Technology Package, then had the Luxury Package. Combined that's a $7,000 add on an already $40,000+ truck. The Terrain is the same way. You're gated into having to get the Denali first, then you get the option of adding the Birds Eye Camera. So after all that, you end up in a $35,000 SUV with just those two options added.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see it addable without FSD, but I certainly don't know about making the feature standard. They aren't a charity, and as it stands now, their pricing is not really out of the realm of all the other vehicles with this feature (once you actually add all the gated features needed to get access to it).

When / If they actually hit that $25K price point they're espousing, they're definitely going to have to gate features.
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,998
63
91
Don't you think that's actually telling of the same gating Tesla is doing, but perhaps to an even more extreme limit? For instance on the F-150 you already *have* to get the high end trims to get the 360 degree camera option (Lariat, King Ranch, etc.). Then you have to get the Technology Package, then had the Luxury Package. Combined that's a $7,000 add on an already $40,000+ truck. The Terrain is the same way. You're gated into having to get the Denali first, then you get the option of adding the Birds Eye Camera. So after all that, you end up in a $35,000 SUV with just those two options added.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see it addable without FSD, but I certainly don't know about making the feature standard. They aren't a charity, and as it stands now, their pricing is not really out of the realm of all the other vehicles with this feature (once you actually add all the gated features needed to get access to it).

When / If they actually hit that $25K price point they're espousing, they're definitely going to have to gate features.

So I had to go educate myself on the FSD differences, because it was my understanding that there was no change in hardware, that it's all software. I do see the HW2.5/HW3.0 controversy for the model 3 deliveries, so it would seem that pre-COVID it was supposed to operate under my assumption; that it's just a gating a software key. Obviously since 2.5 is still floating around, I see it can possibly involve more than that, depending on if you got a non-FSD HW2.5 car or not. You'd need to cover the cost for TESLA to manufacture and install the HW3.0 computer.

On the above examples, there's a (albeit small) bill of materials between the vehicles. On the pre-2020 F-150, that came with an entirely different steering rack. You've got to add the cameras. In the case of both above vehicles, that's different and larger mirror housings with cameras, a different front fascia and a support that holds the nose camera, and in the case of the F-150, the radar equipped tail light housings and body mounts, radar equipped skirts for the Terrain. Different harnesses all around. They are built differently from the lower end models, and that's why you see a lot of trim gating. They don't want to build a tail light harness for incandescent and no BLIS, incandescent and BLIS, LED and no BLIS, LED and BLIS.

In terms of comparing MSRP, I would be wary of comparing pricing directly like that. I agree 7K on 40K is steep, but truck economics don't play out like car economics. People pay more for less, for whatever reason, in the truck market. There's a reason why cybertruck is 70K. That would buy you an F-250 with adaptive cruise, surround view etc and the 6.7 diesel. Likewise, we're talking about a 35K SUV in top trim versus a 50K SUV in lowest trim, that can't self park. It has other features that make up for it. But for those I've shopped with, there's a basic level of features to be guaranteed when you move from 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, and 50-70 (60K tends to blur out in the minds of those that shop the higher MSRP vehicles).

To round out, my comment wasn't in regards to gating at the price tag, it's more the fact that a Tesla is cameras. A Tesla would be a Leaf or a Volt if it wasn't for the cameras. So use the cameras already there, and offer the same (comparatively for Tesla since it's cameras and hardware are capable of far more than the ICE car systems) functionality. None of the ICE cars that offer self park etc have surround cameras and radar hardware in their basic build. Those are all addon hardware that are typically trim gated for ease of limiting manufacturing lines and build batches. I would agree that there would be an upcharge for the software, as at the end of the day that's what Tesla is selling. But I do not think you should be required to get the FSD package to get the features that any ICE car on the market today with that hardware available, already provides.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,300
126
We also risk turning future Tesla vehicles into something that's only disposable instead of repairable if done incorrectly.
I don't think that we want $40,000 electric cars to be like $2,000 Apple Macbooks, where it basically costs the same to replace the whole unit instead of repairing an inaccessible bad part buried inside of the guts of it.
how much cheaper will the disposable Tesla's cost vs today?
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
That's good news, Ponyo. Now I just need to wait for the price to drop a bit so I can afford one, or wait for my remaining Tesla stock to double again :)
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,660
2,045
146
Just a heads up for any Model 3 owners here. Apparently there is a recall on 2017-2019 models because the rear bumper can fall off when driving through a puddle. Apparently Tesla has known about the issue for around two years but didn't release a recall/service bulletin about it until 7-31-20.

 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,480
3,322
136
Imagine trusting your life to the “autopilot” built by a company that took two years to issue a safety recall that it knew about all that time. Never in a million years, and I will now steer far clear of them on the road.
 
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jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
Imagine trusting your life to the “autopilot” built by a company that took two years to issue a safety recall that it knew about all that time. Never in a million years, and I will now steer far clear of them on the road.

Good thing normal drivers never get distracted and crash - you'll be much safer avoiding the cars with built-in crash avoidance features!
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,480
3,322
136
Good thing normal drivers never get distracted and crash - you'll be much safer avoiding the cars with built-in crash avoidance features!

Comment was obviously tongue in cheek, but yes I do steer clear of everyone on the road. Bunch of morons on their phones, or fiddling with their giant UI disaster touchscreens.
 
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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,660
2,045
146
Imagine trusting your life to the “autopilot” built by a company that took two years to issue a safety recall that it knew about all that time. Never in a million years, and I will now steer far clear of them on the road.
Indeed, at least it's safe to assume the Autopilot software was written in a office building though. Wasn't Tesla manufacturing these cars under tents on a parking lot at one point? lol
Anyway, if anyone is interested here is the viral video that finally made Tesla acknowledge the problem after dancing around it for two years.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
I was browsing used Model 3 for sale on Tesla website and every used car had Full Self Driving (FSD) and Acceleration Boost option enabled if applicable. If you're private seller, how do you compete with that? It doesn't cost Tesla anything to enable FSD and Acceleration Boost on their cars and both serve as incredible demand levers to buy used cars direct from Tesla.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,511
219
106
I was browsing used Model 3 for sale on Tesla website and every used car had Full Self Driving (FSD) and Acceleration Boost option enabled if applicable. If you're private seller, how do you compete with that? It doesn't cost Tesla anything to enable FSD and Acceleration Boost on their cars and both serve as incredible demand levers to buy used cars direct from Tesla.

It's definitely an easy way for them to inflate their resale on tradeins / used cars -- that said, I don't see why anybody would actually buy them. $49k for a 2018 with 11k miles, FSD, acceleration boost, and a damage history? Oof.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Just a heads up for any Model 3 owners here. Apparently there is a recall on 2017-2019 models because the rear bumper can fall off when driving through a puddle. Apparently Tesla has known about the issue for around two years but didn't release a recall/service bulletin about it until 7-31-20.


The article states that "Also, the document confirms that Tesla will perform the repair under warranty. " This doesn't reflect that it's a recall, but I'd lean more toward TSB. Although, this brings up one big question... what if it happens to fall off after your car is out of warranty? The part is technically defective right now, but it sounds like they aren't replacing the parts so much as covering the cost if the damage occurs while under warranty.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,031
2,154
126
The article states that "Also, the document confirms that Tesla will perform the repair under warranty. " This doesn't reflect that it's a recall, but I'd lean more toward TSB. Although, this brings up one big question... what if it happens to fall off after your car is out of warranty? The part is technically defective right now, but it sounds like they aren't replacing the parts so much as covering the cost if the damage occurs while under warranty.
Many automakers handle a defect this way because widespread recalls are incredibly expensive (esp. if the failure mode is rare in practice). You're right that once the warranty is up, you're SOL. Short of a recall, the manufacturer can offer an ELW (extended limited warranty).