$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[Brainonska511]

Yes, but there's a "but". Back with my Ford Taurus, I'd usually leave the wipers on Auto until I thought it wasn't reacting well enough, and I'd manually change it. You can disable it on the Tesla, but on the Model 3, the controls for the wipers are on the touch screen. There is a handier way to bring the control up, which is by pressing the single wipe button, but you still have to look down to see where the corresponding wiper levels are. It's just really obtuse and arguably dangerous to do while it's raining heavily compared to just spinning a dial on your stalk.

It always seemed strange that Tesla moved away from a standard driver interface to loading up stuff in the touchscreen. I get that it's important to be innovative, but you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Some knobs and dials are a good thing with regards to safety, as it allows drivers to make setting changes based tactile feedback, instead of having to pull their attention away from the road.

 

[jlee]

It always seemed strange that Tesla moved away from a standard driver interface to loading up stuff in the touchscreen. I get that it's important to be innovative, but you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Some knobs and dials are a good thing with regards to safety, as it allows drivers to make setting changes based tactile feedback, instead of having to pull their attention away from the road.

It's a clean and simple design that (IMO) won't age nearly as fast as most cars do. What would you want knobs and dials for that aren't done with steering wheel controls anyway?

 

[Brainonska511]

It's a clean and simple design that (IMO) won't age nearly as fast as most cars do. What would you want knobs and dials for that aren't done with steering wheel controls anyway?

I think a few key items, like windshield wiper control and temperature control. Stuff that wouldn't be on a steering wheel in a normal car, but you may want to quickly adjust without having to find it on a touch screen.

 

[Aikouka]

It always seemed strange that Tesla moved away from a standard driver interface to loading up stuff in the touchscreen. I get that it's important to be innovative, but you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Some knobs and dials are a good thing with regards to safety, as it allows drivers to make setting changes based tactile feedback, instead of having to pull their attention away from the road.

If I had to guess, their reasoning was likely that they wanted something that could be controlled via software so the car could be effectively automated. However, unless you plant a small servo in the stalk to turn the wiper dial, you wouldn't be able to keep the physical control in sync with the digital/AI control. Now, this is assuming that they'd use a standard wiper control like you see on just about all vehicles. Although, I'm curious about how well a free-form wheel would work? It would have the downside of no natural end-stops (it could still click at individual settings like a mouse wheel), which means you can't use those to help gauge your position, but it would also mean that there's no need to adjust the wheel at all as the position has no relevance to the setting.

I think a few key items, like windshield wiper control and temperature control. Stuff that wouldn't be on a steering wheel in a normal car, but you may want to quickly adjust without having to find it on a touch screen.

I agree. Tesla did move other things to the wheel, but they aren't that big of a deal. However, when it's raining and the rain starts coming down harder but auto-wipers won't keep up properly, I don't want to take my eyes off the road to adjust it. (Mist from the tires of the car in front of you is also a big problem as the car doesn't always react to it.) I'd probably also argue for headlights to be on some sort of easily accessible control as well. In most cases, auto-headlights work fine and the car turns them on whenever the wipers engage (even on a single wipe); however, it's those random times like states that require headlights in work zones or sort of low visibility (minor fog). During my long road trip, I actually dealt with the former quite a bit.

 

[jlee]

I think a few key items, like windshield wiper control and temperature control. Stuff that wouldn't be on a steering wheel in a normal car, but you may want to quickly adjust without having to find it on a touch screen.

If you're constantly changing temperature, I can understand that - but with the advent of automatic climate control, I basically don't touch it. It's also buttons, not dials/knobs in my 15yo Lexus so there's not much difference there vs a screen. Wipers can be manually activated with the left turn stalk, and when you activate them the config pops up on the screen if you want to override auto.

 

[Aikouka]

So, Tesla added a Dashcam Viewer feature, and it ended up being a bit of a bittersweet option for me. My car hasn't really been bugging me about camera issues lately, so I figured that they were working. (In the past, I've seen the error go away for a few weeks before coming back.) However, when looking at the viewer, the one thing that I noticed was that my left camera was always grayed out, which means it still is not fixed... or something else is wrong that's messing up the camera's interface with the Dashcam feature. As for the viewer itself, I'll have to mess with it a bit, but I think my biggest complaint is that it doesn't focus on the time when the event occurred. Also, to note, it appears that you can no longer save dashcam footage while driving. Before, if you hit the camera icon, it would save the last 10 minutes; however, the Dashcam Viewer requires you to be in Park, and it appears that the entire sub-menu is locked to Park.

They also added traffic cone visualization, and I'm a bit mixed on this for two reasons. First, it has a lot of false positives. I was driving past yellow fire hydrants, and each one showed up as a traffic cone. That's not a huge deal, but it does make me wonder what other sort of false positives that we'll see. Now, the one that really worries me is improper cone placement. Part of the patch notes talked about how Autopilot would navigate around cones by switching lanes. When driving yesterday, I went past an area that had the orange barrels on the side blocking access to a construction area. The car did show these (as cones) but it also displayed cones in the middle of that lane. That made me wonder what would happen if Autopilot was engaged as it's supposed to navigate around cones.

Wipers can be manually activated with the left turn stalk, and when you activate them the config pops up on the screen if you want to override auto.

Yes, but that still doesn't make it safe to do that. Most instances where I've wanted to change the wiper speed is when I'm on an Interstate, and the idea of looking down for a moment just sounds like a recipe for disaster... especially if you've seen how poorly people drive around here.

 

[JEDI]

old Miata with dual electric motors smokes Tesla S. (Credit FelixCat)

Wonder when Tesla will offer a dual motor option?

 

[darkswordsman17]

old Miata with dual electric motors smokes Tesla S. (Credit FelixCat)

Wonder when Tesla will offer a dual motor option?

Er...they already do? Since 2014 in fact.

Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot | Tesla

www.tesla.com

The Model S should have a triple motor setup later this year, and then the Cybertruck will have it as an option.

The Miata is a barebones car by comparison (probably weighs half what the Tesla does, I'm guessing it has a much smaller battery pack for instance), and is running on drag slicks (which alone would make quite a lot of difference).

 

[JEDI]

Er...they already do? Since 2014 in fact.

Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot | Tesla

www.tesla.com

The Model S should have a triple motor setup later this year, and then the Cybertruck will have it as an option.

The Miata is a barebones car by comparison (probably weighs half what the Tesla does, I'm guessing it has a much smaller battery pack for instance), and is running on drag slicks (which alone would make quite a lot of difference).

ahh.. 1/2 the weight because of less batteries thus faster.
so it'll prob win vs a dual motor telsa S as well.

triple motor?
1 motor for front wheels, 2nd motor for rear wheels.
3rd motor for?

 

[rstrohkirch]

Current top tier Model S with a good driver is 2 seconds faster in the quarter than the one in that video.

3rd motor for?

To say you have the fastest sedan.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

ahh.. 1/2 the weight because of less batteries thus faster.
so it'll prob win vs a dual motor telsa S as well.

triple motor?
1 motor for front wheels, 2nd motor for rear wheels.
3rd motor for?

My guess is 1 motor RWD, 2 motor AWD, 3 motor breaks out the single rear motor into 2 separate motors driving each rear wheel. That's what was done on the Audi e-Tron S Model concept, and I'm guessing that's what HUMMER will do on their upcoming tri-motor variant.

 

[zinfamous]

Er...they already do? Since 2014 in fact.

Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot | Tesla

www.tesla.com

The Model S should have a triple motor setup later this year, and then the Cybertruck will have it as an option.

The Miata is a barebones car by comparison (probably weighs half what the Tesla does, I'm guessing it has a much smaller battery pack for instance), and is running on drag slicks (which alone would make quite a lot of difference).

yeah I mean, just look at the rears on that thing, lol. I think the MX-5 is usually fitted with 14"-wide wheels? Those look ~19. It also did a proper burn-out to warm up the tires like you do in a drag. The Tesla did not...I wonder why.

The MX-5 was also probably stripped down much further to be a proper drag racer. This was more of a demonstration of how to build a little car that can stomp in a dig, which can be done with all sorts of cars. Not saying that wasn't cool, but it was hardly a comparison between an "electric MX-5" and what was certainly a stock Tesla, that wasn't even kitted in the bare minimum for a sprint.

 

[JEDI]

My guess is 1 motor RWD, 2 motor AWD, 3 motor breaks out the single rear motor into 2 separate motors driving each rear wheel. That's what was done on the Audi e-Tron S Model concept, and I'm guessing that's what HUMMER will do on their upcoming tri-motor variant.

so much attention to RWD.
im assuming electric RWD > gas FWD in snow/ice?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

so much attention to RWD.
im assuming electric RWD > gas FWD in snow/ice?

When a car is going forward, weight shifts backwards, and when you're towing, weight is added ot the rear, so in general, if you're applying power somewhere, to the rear is better.

That being said, for winter, the extra power doesn't matter. If anything it makes it more cumbersome. You want smooth, even power distributed over as many contact surfaces as possible to minimize slippage.

I don't know if RWD electric beats FWD gas on snow / ice. Having powered front wheels steering has proven generally to be better on such things. I will say driving my Subaru Impreza vs. my Dual Motor Model 3, the Tesla definitely feels better on launch, but a good portion of that is simply because the Tesla 3 is noticeably heavier, and also has a huge amount of traction controls and micro-response abilities that simply out-perform a gas engine (the Tesla doesn't have to care about stalling a gas engine, or what ratio the CVT / transmission is in).

 

[thedarkwolf]

Bjorn finally got his hands on a Taycan. Keep in mind this is a 79kwh version while the EPA 203 mile rated version is a 93.4kwh car.

TLDW

Spoiler

56mph = 273 miles
75mph = 212 miles

 

[zinfamous]

so much attention to RWD.
im assuming electric RWD > gas FWD in snow/ice?

in addition to what coolnessrune said about benefits of having the powered wheels also do the steering in snow/ice, RWD + mid-engine or rear-engine cars are not very common, let alone for those cars, they aren't going to work well in snow for other reasons (these are almost exclusively sports or super cars--so add in the fact they have very low clearance and low weight). RWD cars are still forward steering. I think only very few, extremely rare cars feature rear-wheel stearing, and that is only as an AW steering system, like the 918.

what benefits driving in snow and ice is having the weight where the power is, which is far more often going to be found in most FWD cars compared to RWD cars; but of course even power distrubtion is best, whever it be 4WD or some version of 4WD that compensates based on immediate conditions.

I'm not sure if this reall is that effective, but I recall that it was common for people with those 2WD-RWD small pickups, to carry around cinder blocks and other heavy things in the truck bed, over the rear axle, to help put weight on the power.

RWD is for fun driving, but I think traditionally, oversteer isn't seen as "fun" in snow/ice conditions. (meaning, on public roads--obviously, it's still fun on a closed showy track)

 

[heymrdj]

in addition to what coolnessrune said, RWD + mid-engine or rear-engine cars are not very common, let alone for those cars, they aren't going to work well in snow for other reasons (these are almost exclusively sports or super cars--so add in the fact they have very low clearance and low weight).

what benefits driving in snow and ice is having the weight where the power is, which is far more often going to be found in most FWD cars compared to RWD cars; but of course even power distrubtion is best, whever it be 4WD or some version of 4WD that compensates based on immediate conditions.

I'm not sure if this reall is that effective, but I recall that it was common for people with those 2WD-RWD small pickups, to carry around cinder blocks and other heavy things in the truck bed, over the rear axle, to help put weight on the power.

RWD is for fun driving, but I think traditionally, oversteer isn't seen as "fun" in snow/ice conditions. (meaning, on public roads--obviously, it's still fun on a closed showy track)

Regarding the blocks in the bed, yes it’s common, and yes it’s effective. My 2017 6.5’ bed Silverado loved about 400lbs of tube sand over the back wheels. Snow traction significantly improved. I actually got much less improvement out of my 2019 Canyon crew cab short bed. I think it’s because the wheelbase is so much shorter. I actually stopped carrying weight for it. Tie that in with the auto 4wd, and I have very few issues with snow, even when the air damn is plowing it, and with more highway rated tires (Michelin LTX M/S 2).

 

[repoman0]

in addition to what coolnessrune said about benefits of having the powered wheels also do the steering in snow/ice, RWD + mid-engine or rear-engine cars are not very common, let alone for those cars, they aren't going to work well in snow for other reasons (these are almost exclusively sports or super cars--so add in the fact they have very low clearance and low weight). RWD cars are still forward steering. I think only very few, extremely rare cars feature rear-wheel stearing, and that is only as an AW steering system, like the 918.

what benefits driving in snow and ice is having the weight where the power is, which is far more often going to be found in most FWD cars compared to RWD cars; but of course even power distrubtion is best, whever it be 4WD or some version of 4WD that compensates based on immediate conditions.

I'm not sure if this reall is that effective, but I recall that it was common for people with those 2WD-RWD small pickups, to carry around cinder blocks and other heavy things in the truck bed, over the rear axle, to help put weight on the power.

RWD is for fun driving, but I think traditionally, oversteer isn't seen as "fun" in snow/ice conditions. (meaning, on public roads--obviously, it's still fun on a closed showy track)

After driving substantially similar AWD and RWD vehicles with both snow and all-season tires up here in New England ... I’ve come to the conclusion that good throttle control and driving technique and especially tires are way more important than drivetrain type, assuming balanced and decent handling chassis all around. With decent tires, any drivetrain will get you going on flat ground. The tires along with good throttle control and corner technique keeps one from spinning out due to too much power put down in a corner. I like to point out that all vehicles have brakes at all four corners

The main situation where drivetrain matters that you can’t otherwise compensate for is starting from a stop on a hill, and I’ve actually found FWD to be weaker there. My old place had a really steep driveway that my old AWD sedan with Blizzaks laughed at and pretty much every FWD vehicle regardless of tire got owned by, stuck at the bottom. My GF has a (FWD) Chevy Volt with Blizzaks as well that I’d have to push up every time, or as a last resort turn it around at the bottom and reverse up to get that weight on the “rear” wheels.

It was pretty cool to be able to pretty much floor it in first gear with my AWD/Blizzak combo while everyone else was sliding all around (because very few people do the responsible thing and switch to snows for some reason, even here), but that’s just novelty. I won’t be able to do that with the replacement (RWD and twice the power ) but have no doubt that it will be perfectly controllable and usable at all times, same as my last RWD vehicle was for six winters.

 

[JEDI]

New Prius:

Car Review: Toyota Prius Prime - WTOP News

Car Review: The Toyota Prius keeps the odd looks with better fuel economy in the plug-in Prius Prime.

wtop.com

- Gas-free operation for 25 miles, then it becomes a fuel miser on the gas engine
- MPG: 133 MPGe; 54MPG gas only
- recharges in regular 120v outlet
- Slow acceleration
- Price: $33,500; as tested $34,430

How much is a Tesla 3 now-a-days?
dropped down to that promised $35k price point yet?

 

[Commodus]

New Prius:

Car Review: Toyota Prius Prime - WTOP News

Car Review: The Toyota Prius keeps the odd looks with better fuel economy in the plug-in Prius Prime.

wtop.com

- Gas-free operation for 25 miles, then it becomes a fuel miser on the gas engine
- MPG: 133 MPGe; 54MPG gas only
- recharges in regular 120v outlet
- Slow acceleration
- Price: $33,500; as tested $34,430

How much is a Tesla 3 now-a-days?
dropped down to that promised $35k price point yet?

You can get a Model 3 for $35K if you special order it (you have to call, I believe). The closest you get on the website is $39,990 before incentives. So it's more expensive than the Prius, but not that much more expensive if you'd otherwise drive enough to make the Toyota consume a lot of gas.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think that actually highlights that the Prius Prime is a poor value. I feel like Toyota has been a bit stagnant/complacent with the Prius. Seems like Toyota is almost intent on phasing out the Prius as they're offering compelling hybrids in their other models. The European Corolla has two hybrid drivetrains (the Prius one, but then a hotter one). The Camry hybrid isn't much worse in MPG (its up to 51/53) while having a considerably more powerful drivetrain. I don't think its that much more expensive either. They finally are bringing out a hybrid minivan, but the Prius V should've been a short minivan/tall wagon (think Mazda MP5) from the get go. They should have melded the Prius C and the iQ into a single model. Make it a bit roomier and more upright (like the Smart cars or like the BMW i3).

I'm hoping the Model 3/Y puts pressure on Toyota to improve the Prius. Plug-in and running pure electric mode should be standard. The Prime should either move to a more electric focused model (~100mile electric range) or gotten rid of (and leave the premium stuff for the Camry hybrid or Lexus). I would like if they'd make a solar roof standard as well (not so much for extending range but rather for keeping the 12V charged and climate management - the solar roof option on the previous Prius gave the option of remote start to cool the car down a few minutes before you got in, or for running a fan to bring in external air). I think they've been testing a Prius with a lot more solar panels (roof, hood, maybe sides as well, and possibly part of the hatch).

 

[thedarkwolf]

Too be fair the Pruis Prime starts at $27,900. They are testing the top of the top of the line version. Plus the toyota still qualifies for a $4500 tax credit.

 

[ondma]

Too be fair the Pruis Prime starts at $27,900. They are testing the top of the top of the line version. Plus the toyota still qualifies for a $4500 tax credit.

They are not really a direct comparison. The Prius is has much less performance, but doesnt have the range limitations of the Tesla.
I have to admit though, that until I looked at the prices of other EVs I thought the Tesla was overpriced. But compared to the Leaf, Bolt, etc., I have to say they are not that bad.

Edit: All the EVs are "overpriced" to me. Meaning, I would not pay 30k plus for a car with the limited range of an EV. I will definitely consider a hybrid if I ever purchase another vehicle though. (retired now, and have a 1.5 y.o. Impreza, so it could well be my last auto purchase).

 

[ondma]

After driving substantially similar AWD and RWD vehicles with both snow and all-season tires up here in New England ... I’ve come to the conclusion that good throttle control and driving technique and especially tires are way more important than drivetrain type, assuming balanced and decent handling chassis all around. With decent tires, any drivetrain will get you going on flat ground. The tires along with good throttle control and corner technique keeps one from spinning out due to too much power put down in a corner. I like to point out that all vehicles have brakes at all four corners

The main situation where drivetrain matters that you can’t otherwise compensate for is starting from a stop on a hill, and I’ve actually found FWD to be weaker there. My old place had a really steep driveway that my old AWD sedan with Blizzaks laughed at and pretty much every FWD vehicle regardless of tire got owned by, stuck at the bottom. My GF has a (FWD) Chevy Volt with Blizzaks as well that I’d have to push up every time, or as a last resort turn it around at the bottom and reverse up to get that weight on the “rear” wheels.

It was pretty cool to be able to pretty much floor it in first gear with my AWD/Blizzak combo while everyone else was sliding all around (because very few people do the responsible thing and switch to snows for some reason, even here), but that’s just novelty. I won’t be able to do that with the replacement (RWD and twice the power ) but have no doubt that it will be perfectly controllable and usable at all times, same as my last RWD vehicle was for six winters.

I would agree with you to a certain extent. FWD loses some or most of its traction advantage on a start uphill, because sitting at an angle shifts some of the weight to the non-driven rear wheels.

Having driven RWD, FWD, and now AWD, I would disagree that they are comparable in snow traction on level ground. RWD has the least weight on the driven wheels, so has poorer forward traction. It also tends to oversteer, so can be harder for an inexperienced driver to handle in snow. (Modern stability control systems tend to ameliorate this however). FWD has more of the weight on the driven wheels, so will have better forward traction than RWD. FWD also tends to understeer when cornering in snow, so may be more benign. AWD has better forward traction than either. This is especially true with modern AWD systems that electronically distribute power to the wheel(s) with most traction. Cornering with AWD is "different", not sure if it is better or worse. My Impreza with the base engine still can (surprisingly) be easily provoked into oversteer if I apply power exiting a corner. This can be useful in certain situations to bring the car around if it is tending to plow ahead around a corner. Other times, it can be a bit un-nerving, but stability control usually kicks in to keep things under control.

Edit: Obviously, these comparisons assume similar tires and the engine in front.

 

[manly]

Too be fair the Pruis Prime starts at $27,900. They are testing the top of the top of the line version. Plus the toyota still qualifies for a $4500 tax credit.

A buddy (happily) drives a Prius and sometimes we joke at him: "no wonder you're still single."

They are not really a direct comparison. The Prius is has much less performance, but doesnt have the range limitations of the Tesla.
I have to admit though, that until I looked at the prices of other EVs I thought the Tesla was overpriced. But compared to the Leaf, Bolt, etc., I have to say they are not that bad.

Edit: All the EVs are "overpriced" to me. Meaning, I would not pay 30k plus for a car with the limited range of an EV. I will definitely consider a hybrid if I ever purchase another vehicle though. (retired now, and have a 1.5 y.o. Impreza, so it could well be my last auto purchase).

Up until recently, Tesla had really the only attractive looking BEVs on the market. Most manufacturers purposely made their BEVs look weird or "futuristic." There still aren't many BEVs that are readily available, so Tesla Model 3 is indeed competitive on a per dollar basis.

Having said that, I agree with your closing sentiment (as others have often stated). TM3 is not a mainstream car, even if you can get one for $35k + tax. We don't have exact figures, but most buyers are spending close to $50k.