30 years on nothing---30 year sentence for saying the wrong thing---

[RichardE]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/01/08/subway.plot.ap/index.html

NY subway bomb plotter sentenced to 30 years
POSTED: 5:45 p.m. EST, January 8, 2007
Story Highlights
? NEW: Siraj sentenced to 30 years after prosecutors call him "driving force" in plot
? The 24-year-old was convicted of conspiracy to blow up a subway station
? No explosives, terror connections unearthed during investigation
? Defense says Siraj not dangerous, just a "confused and misguided youngster"
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NEW YORK (AP) -- A Pakistani immigrant was sentenced to 30 years in prison Monday for devising an unsuccessful plot to blow up a busy Manhattan subway station as revenge for wartime abuses of Iraqis.

Shahawar Matin Siraj, 24, was arrested on the eve of the 2004 Republican National Convention.

Though there was no proof he ever obtained explosives or was linked to any terror organizations, prosecutors said his intentions were ominous: He wanted to blow up the Herald Square subway station, a bustling transportation hub located beneath Macy's flagship department store.

Defense attorneys had sought to convince U.S. District Judge Nina Gershon that Siraj's sentence should not exceed 10 years, arguing in recent court filings that their client was "not a dangerous psychopath but more of a confused and misguided youngster."

Prosecutors countered that the defendant deserved at least 30 years behind bars as the "driving force" behind a "workable terrorist plot."

Siraj was convicted of conspiracy last year based partly on the testimony of a police informant, Osama Eldawoody, who was recruited to monitor radical Muslims at mosques and elsewhere following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Inside an Islamic bookstore near a Brooklyn mosque, Eldawoody wore a wire and chatted up an employee who lived with his parents in Queens -- Siraj.

When the topic turned to the war in Iraq, Siraj ranted about rumors among radicals that U.S. soldiers were sexually abusing Iraqi girls.

Though there was no proof he ever obtained explosives or was linked to any terror organizations, prosecutors said his intentions were ominous: He wanted to blow up the Herald Square subway station, a bustling transportation hub located beneath Macy's flagship department store.


You can get put behind bars for saying certain things nowadays?

 

[dahunan]

I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

 

[OS]

either you're with us or you're against us

 

[Drizzy]

hard to get the real details of the case.. both sides spin the story to make it look the way they want.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Who was his unindicted co-conspiritor, Allah?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

And what exactly does Bush have to do with the NY State Government prosecuting this man...AND HAVING A JURY OF 12 FINDING HIM GUILTY?

 

[Lemon law]

We need to get fiction writers like Tom Clancey and Steven King next. And all them writers of who done its for inciting murderous intent.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

And what exactly does Bush have to do with the NY State Government prosecuting this man...AND HAVING A JURY OF 12 FINDING HIM GUILTY?

Shhh...

You will have to put your tin foil hat on before they can tell you that.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

Granted America would be better off but what does that have to do with this case?

 

[Specop 007]

Jesus, come on people. At least stick to you position.

People bitch and moan about how Bush and the .gov just KNEW there would be a terrorist attack and they did nothing.

Now, you HAVE a terrorist who was planning an attack and you think he should be just let free??

Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
We need to get fiction writers like Tom Clancey and Steven King next. And all them writers of who done its for inciting murderous intent.

:laugh:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Jesus, come on people. At least stick to you position.

People bitch and moan about how Bush and the .gov just KNEW there would be a terrorist attack and they did nothing.

Now, you HAVE a terrorist who was planning an attack and you think he should be just let free??

Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

That pretty much nails it on the head. Lets say this guy blew up a building somewhere. The Bush administration would get chastized and people would say "He even told people he was going to do it and DID NOTHING!" :roll:

And arrested for speech is nothing new. Even 10 years ago making an offhanded remark in an airpost would get you arrested.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Jesus, come on people. At least stick to you position.

People bitch and moan about how Bush and the .gov just KNEW there would be a terrorist attack and they did nothing.

Now, you HAVE a terrorist who was planning an attack and you think he should be just let free??

Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

That pretty much nails it on the head. Lets say this guy blew up a building somewhere. The Bush administration would get chastized and people would say "He even told people he was going to do it and DID NOTHING!" :roll:

arrested for speech is nothing new.

May not be new for Communist loving America haters but for real true Americans that is not acceptable

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Jesus, come on people. At least stick to you position.

People bitch and moan about how Bush and the .gov just KNEW there would be a terrorist attack and they did nothing.

Now, you HAVE a terrorist who was planning an attack and you think he should be just let free??

Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

That pretty much nails it on the head. Lets say this guy blew up a building somewhere. The Bush administration would get chastized and people would say "He even told people he was going to do it and DID NOTHING!" :roll:

arrested for speech is nothing new.

May not be new for Communist loving America haters but for real true Americans that is not acceptable

WTF

Did you read my whole comment? I guess you think its perfectly fine to trapse around an airport joking about having weapons or bombs? WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Tom]

"You can get put behind bars for saying certain things nowadays?"


he did more than just say things.

 

[Jaskalas]

I am left with an unsettled feeling regarding the case of locking away somebody for threats. However, where do you intend to draw the line ? do you insist that people have to be murdered before stopping their murderer?

The jury found it acceptable to convict and sentence this man, apparently they had a reason to do so after his threats. To me, personally, I?d base it on if I believed his own words ? if I believed he was willing to carry out his threat.

Of course, when you try to convince me this is all some Bush conspiracy the partisan hack begins to show.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

QFT!

ps: They should put a bullet in Siraj's "confused and misguided youngster" head.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

Granted America would be better off but what does that have to do with this case?

You've been in P&N long enough to know that it's ALWAYS Bush's fault. Sheesh.

As to the OP... There has to be more to the story than what's in the news clip. There had to be enough there to convince 12 people and keep the judge from setting aside the verdict. Hard to believe he got 30 years for "just saying" he wanted to blow up a train station.

 

[Lemon law]

So if a legitimate authority does it---its OK

How about the Salem witch hunts---Saccoand Vinceti---the chicago 7--the good old Spanish Inqusition,
vigallante justice, all those prisoners freed from death row with DNA evidence when the jury made a mistake, the killing fields of Cambodia---I could keep going---but you get the idea.

We are supposed to be better than that------but sometimes our passions about thought crimes
get the better of our common sense.

And all you Walter Middy types out there---watch your step.---fantasy is now illegal.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
So if a legitimate authority does it---its OK

Apparently the only authority you'd give us is the right to be killed.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

QFT!

ps: They should put a bullet in Siraj's "confused and misguided youngster" head.

Thats disgusting. Its embarassing that someone like you is in the military.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wish the whole Bush family was never born..

*If I don't post tomorrow you will know what happened to me

And what exactly does Bush have to do with the NY State Government prosecuting this man...AND HAVING A JURY OF 12 FINDING HIM GUILTY?

Hysterical scapegoating?:lips:😛

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

QFT!

ps: They should put a bullet in Siraj's "confused and misguided youngster" head.

Thats disgusting. Its embarrassing that someone like you is in the military.

why? In the military we are not out to "rehabilitate" violent extremists. They need to be destroyed. period.

Does that concept bother you? killing, destroying, annihilating, eliminating, removing, wasting... this is what we do.

How about this: we'll let you hug their corpses...?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Jesus, come on people. At least stick to you position.

People bitch and moan about how Bush and the .gov just KNEW there would be a terrorist attack and they did nothing.

Now, you HAVE a terrorist who was planning an attack and you think he should be just let free??

Christ in a handbasket. You people are never happy are you. You take the position that you feel like at the moment dont you?

That pretty much nails it on the head. Lets say this guy blew up a building somewhere. The Bush administration would get chastized and people would say "He even told people he was going to do it and DID NOTHING!" :roll:

arrested for speech is nothing new.

May not be new for Communist loving America haters but for real true Americans that is not acceptable

WTF

Did you read my whole comment? I guess you think its perfectly fine to trapse around an airport joking about having weapons or bombs? WTF is wrong with you?

Don't you mean Taped while talking in a book store. B1😉

 

[yllus]

What's up with this "saying certain things" posturing? That's not all he did, according to what other news stories and the DOJ say.

Siraj is the second individual convicted for participating in this plot. In Oct. 2004, James Elshafay pleaded guilty to conspiracy to damage or destroy a subway station by means of an explosive, and testified against Siraj at his trial. Elshafay's sentencing date has not yet been scheduled.

At trial, the government proved that Siraj and Elshafay plotted to plant explosive devices at the Herald Square subway station in order to disrupt commerce and transportation in New York City and damage the economy. The evidence included hours of secretly recorded conversations between Siraj and Osama Eldawoody, an Egyptian nuclear engineer who became a paid informant for the New York City Police Department's Intelligence Division, in which Siraj expressed his hatred for America and discussed his desire to place explosives on various bridges and in subway stations in New York City, including the subway station at 34th Street.

In furtherance of their scheme, on Aug. 21, 2004, Siraj and Elshafay inspected the station, and later drew diagrams of the location in order to help them place a bomb. When arrested on Aug. 27, 2004, neither Siraj nor Elshafay possessed any explosive material.

I'm not sure what the possibility of entrapment is here, that's for the more schooled in law here (along with Mr. Siraj's lawyers in the appeals to follow) to argue.

But I will say this: I've known people like Mr. Siraj personally. They bluster on about doing these things to strike back against Canada/the U.S./West in general, and for the most part it's dismissable as the angry ranting of the mildly disenfranchised. Guy doesn't have a lot of friends, isn't doing too well in school, parents are breathing down his back... He finds an outlet to vent anger and frustration at. Harmless. Usually.

The police up here in the region surrounding Toronto recently arrested 17 suspects, all exactly like Mr. Siraj in motive, all middle class immigrants or born right here in Canada. The court case is ongoing, but from what we know so far they planned to storm our Parliament and amongst other things, kill the Prime Minister. No doubt their friends (some of whom turned state's witness) thought the same thing - is this harmless talk, or a credible threat? Maybe the only way to find out is the string them along and see how far they'll go.