3 Years into Ownership of 2014 Audi S5...Costs So Far

[DaTT]

So, I still love this car. The only option it doesn't have is adaptive cruise control. But she has had her problem, the wife refers to her as Lemony Snickets. I bought with 58k KM's, and she now has 140k KM's. Here is a list of what has been repaired so far:

1. A/C Low Pressure Switch (although I think this may have been a misdiagnosis, see item 2) - $250
2. A/C Condenser - $1,200
3. Carbon cleaning process to correct Secondary Air Injection CE Light (Audi covered the majority of this cost under a prorated warranty) - $180
4. Battery and 2 starter relays (misdiagnosis, see item 5) - $400
5. Starter - $1,300 (negotiated with dealership, original cost would have been $1,900)
6. Front vehicle level sensor - $220
7. Front wheel bearing - $750

Regular Maintenance Items
1. Oil Changes - $200
2. DCT Transmission Service 2 times so far - $500 each
3. Front Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $750
4. Rear Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $500
5. Summer Tires - $1,200
6. Winter Tires and Rims (used set from an S4) - $1,200

Gearing up to do the intake carbon cleaning, water pump, thermostat, supercharger oil, upper gaskets next Spring. That should be a fun one.

Not cheap to maintain, but I still really enjoy the car. Lots of twisty country roads to enjoy. Not to mention snow driving.

Next one will either be new or CPO.

 

[Greenman]

Excluding the regular maintenance items, your 3 years of repairs is more than I spent on my last truck over 12 years and 260k miles.
Would this be considered normal for this particular model or does yours just require a little more TLC?

 

[manly]

Excluding the regular maintenance items, your 3 years of repairs is more than I spent on my last truck over 12 years and 260k miles.
Would this be considered normal for this particular model or does yours just require a little more TLC?

The OP said his wife calls the car "Lemony Snickets".
You'd be surprised though, if you look up Edmunds TCO for German cars, the repair & maintenance costs are fairly substantial. Thankfully, for my 2014 3 Series, this has not been borne out as of yet. I may post up my figures later.

It's unclear if OP is quoting USD or Canucky dollars? Notable missing are depreciation and fuel costs. Finally, I inferred that at least some of the repairs were done at the dealership, which is one way to spend more than necessary.

 

[Torn Mind]

Three years is pretty fast for a battery. Should not have been the first diagnosis.

Um, that starter was basically robbery....RockAuto Bosch is like $300 for the parts. So I presume that the rest is labor?

kms indcate you might live in Canada? So how does the A/C condenser break when it's cold all the time?

Sensor dead in three years. Ah, electronics typical.

Do the roads suck? Seems really fast for wheel bearings to go out.

 

[sdifox]

Lol and I thought my MB E350 4Matic was bad. And I had to pull the engine to replace balancing shaft.

 

[Thump553]

$500 for transmission service? Twice in 82K KM (roughly 51k miles)? Thank you for reaffirming my lack of faith in VW-never again for me.

 

[DaTT]

$500 for transmission service? Twice in 82K KM (roughly 51k miles)? Thank you for reaffirming my lack of faith in VW-never again for me.

No, twice in 140,000KM's, I just happen to buy it right when it required the first one. It's the maintenance for the dual clutch tranny.

 

[DaTT]

The OP said his wife calls the car "Lemony Snickets".
You'd be surprised though, if you look up Edmunds TCO for German cars, the repair & maintenance costs are fairly substantial. Thankfully, for my 2014 3 Series, this has not been borne out as of yet. I may post up my figures later.

It's unclear if OP is quoting USD or Canucky dollars? Notable missing are depreciation and fuel costs. Finally, I inferred that at least some of the repairs were done at the dealership, which is one way to spend more than necessary.

Yup, costs are in Canadian dollars.

A couple reasons I use the dealership, 1) I have yet to find a reliable Euro mechanic (maybe lack of trying so far, and 2) I get a free courtesy vehicle.

Hourly rates are maybe $10 more than industry standard.

 

[DaTT]

Three years is pretty fast for a battery. Should not have been the first diagnosis.

Um, that starter was basically robbery....RockAuto Bosch is like $300 for the parts. So I presume that the rest is labor?

kms indcate you might live in Canada? So how does the A/C condenser break when it's cold all the time?

Sensor dead in three years. Ah, electronics typical.

Do the roads suck? Seems really fast for wheel bearings to go out.

Battery was never dead, but starting to weaken and relays showed signs of wear. Either way, I never really ended up paying for it in the end.

The starter is 90% labour, motor mount on one side to come out, sub frame removal. Those crazy Germans think of everything for regular wear and tear items.

A/C condenser was replaced during the front end repair after an accident...only part not replaced with OEM as per the repair list. So either cheap part, or perhaps some road debris punctured it, or both.

Level sensor replaced this year, 6 years old.

 

[DaTT]

Excluding the regular maintenance items, your 3 years of repairs is more than I spent on my last truck over 12 years and 260k miles.
Would this be considered normal for this particular model or does yours just require a little more TLC?

I did read that the starters are hit and miss and have been known for premature failure, and carbon buildup is a known issue. I think the other items are just bad luck.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Soo-ooo . . . . DaTT . . . . where do you live and drive? That seems like more than usual repair events and costs, even for a total ~ 97,000 miles.

I bought my current and favored vehicle when it had 96,000 miles on the odometer. I have a sense now of what may have been done to it before it was mine, after 191,000 miles. It never cost anyone that much on a per-mile basis -- not as much as your S5 . . .

 

[DaTT]

I live just outside Toronto. For the first year and a half of ownership, I commuted about 850KM (530 miles) per week in stop and go traffic.

 

[pcgeek11]

You couldn't throw me in a German Car. Screw that. And I work for a Huge German Company in an Automotive division.

 

[Torn Mind]

You couldn't throw me in a German Car. Screw that. And I work for a Huge German Company in an Automotive division.

Oh, but if you were coerced to drive one at gunpoint once...you'll want a repeat.


Just like how Facebook Marketplace can be such a mess and items buried after a week...but you just....can't...stop...looking....

(I never actually rode in one, but I have a hunch that there is something to them that gets people to buy them even with the expensive cost of ownership.)

 

[manly]

Yup, costs are in Canadian dollars.

A couple reasons I use the dealership, 1) I have yet to find a reliable Euro mechanic (maybe lack of trying so far, and 2) I get a free courtesy vehicle.

Hourly rates are maybe $10 more than industry standard.

If it's only $10/hr, I probably wouldn't worry about it. Having said that, Toronto is a global city so none of us here believes that you can't find a good Euro shop and save a lot of money. Here in L.A., the stealership generally quotes about 75% higher than indy shops.

I don't have the OP's sweet ride, but here's what my TCO looks like for a 2014 BMW 328i after 45 months. I drive a lot less, which makes my cost per mile somewhat high. Guess I need to take more road trips after COVID-19 dies out.

Repairs
$500 - insurance collision deductible (for a really nasty hit & run, while my car was parked overnight)
$89 - aftermarket tail lamp assembly (original had a small cosmetic chip, probably bought it that way)

Maintenance
$265 - 3 oil changes
$311 - Brake fluid flush & spark plugs @ 60k on the odometer
$519 - 2 RFT tires (tires had plenty of tread, but I seemingly ran over a screw)
$400 - Car washes

Depreciation
$11k - should be a little less, but the collision on the record causes some diminished value

Fuel
$3182

The last major cost item is insurance, which has averaged about $100/month. I've excluded a couple minor items such as SiriusXM subscriptions and accessories.

All in all, the TCO hasn't been too extreme for a German car. I was unlucky to eat the collision deductible and replace two tires @ 13k miles driven. Depreciation sucks a little bit, but will be way more reasonable going forward. Would I do it again? The short answer is yes, but the F30 chassis is the least beloved of all 3 Series. My plan is to keep the car indefinitely, but that all depends on future repair costs.

Earlier N20/N26 engines are susceptible to catastrophic timing chain guide failure, and BMW is currently settling a class action lawsuit in court that bumps covered repairs for up to 8 years. Unfortunately it's not a full recall so if you don't qualify, this repair is very expensive. I still had a chance to buy a Route 66 service plan two years ago, but ultimately decided to self-insure as F30 otherwise has a good reliability record.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If it's only $10/hr, I probably wouldn't worry about it. Having said that, Toronto is a global city so none of us here believes that you can't find a good Euro shop and save a lot of money. Here in L.A., the stealership generally quotes about 75% higher than indy shops.

I don't have the OP's sweet ride, but here's what my TCO looks like for a 2014 BMW 328i after 45 months. I drive a lot less, which makes my cost per mile somewhat high. Guess I need to take more road trips after COVID-19 dies out.

Repairs
$500 - insurance collision deductible (for a really nasty hit & run, while my car was parked overnight)
$89 - aftermarket tail lamp assembly (original had a small cosmetic chip, probably bought it that way)

Maintenance
$265 - 3 oil changes
$311 - Brake fluid flush & spark plugs @ 60k on the odometer
$519 - 2 RFT tires (tires had plenty of tread, but I seemingly ran over a screw)
$400 - Car washes

Depreciation
$11k - should be a little less, but the collision on the record causes some diminished value

Fuel
$3182

The last major cost item is insurance, which has averaged about $100/month. I've excluded a couple minor items such as SiriusXM subscriptions and accessories.

All in all, the TCO hasn't been too extreme for a German car. I was unlucky to eat the collision deductible and replace two tires @ 13k miles driven. Depreciation sucks a little bit, but will be way more reasonable going forward. Would I do it again? The short answer is yes, but the F30 chassis is the least beloved of all 3 Series. My plan is to keep the car indefinitely, but that all depends on future repair costs.

Earlier N20/N26 engines are susceptible to catastrophic timing chain guide failure, and BMW is currently settling a class action lawsuit in court that bumps covered repairs for up to 8 years. Unfortunately it's not a full recall so if you don't qualify, this repair is very expensive. I still had a chance to buy a Route 66 service plan two years ago, but ultimately decided to self-insure as F30 otherwise has a good reliability record.

If I have to put owners in statistical categories, you would go into "Enthusiast". All the Beamer owners I know personally are enthusiasts. I have a friend who earned his $17M (1995) net-worth in lost sleep and simultaneous mixture of full-times and part-times in three different gigs. He had a fleet of three 1979 (?) 325 - i's. One of them was more of a parts-locker for occasional harvest, but I think he attempted -- eventually here and there -- to keep it running. From the passenger seat, his "best" was a sweet, sweet ride.

I followed suit in the "fleet strategy" with my Hondas. In some states, the tax per vehicle is low given the book-values, and of course -- there's the insurance costs. Newer models require more commitment in dollars even if less in warts of gouged fingers, filthy overalls and sweat.

While I collect the data and monitor the outlays for my own car, the annual disbursals for the last three years has been consistently on the high above-budget side, and I have done this because the engine is in absolutely great shape. Great at 190,000 miles as if it were only 60,000. My current mechanic says the car was built to be indestructible, and previous mechanics would say "Great engine!" or forecast 300,000 miles.

So recent outlays are something of a bet against risk. I'm confident! . .. .

 

[pcgeek11]

Oh, but if you were coerced to drive one at gunpoint once...you'll want a repeat.


Just like how Facebook Marketplace can be such a mess and items buried after a week...but you just....can't...stop...looking....

(I never actually rode in one, but I have a hunch that there is something to them that gets people to buy them even with the expensive cost of ownership.)

Nope, not I.

I work on this Over Engineered German Shit every day. I damn sure don't want any part of it when I'm off. Give me a well made Japanese machine any day of the week.

Overly complex isn't a sign of well engineered.

 

[Torn Mind]

Nope, not I.

I work on this Over Engineered German Shit every day. I damn sure don't want any part of it when I'm off. Give me a well made Japanese machine any day of the week.

Overly complex isn't a sign of well engineered.

I definitely can respect the Japanese's ability to make durable vehicles. I don't count on them to get "feel" and ergonomics right.

But creature comforts do and should matter for those people that it matters for. If I were a few classes above where I am, I'd want more car than just a Corolla.

Being a bit of a music geek, silence is something I would prioritize much higher if I had higher income because I don't want to lose it, and I would be looking at an S-Class or something. .

 

[BurnItDwn]

Im guessing all the costs are in CAD.

So, if we in the US wanted to compare to the costs of maintaining our cars or trucks, we would need to multiply the dollar figures by approx 77% since $1CAD = $0.77USD

Still seems like a lot for maintaining something thatts not even 10 years old, but, i would think this would be within the expected range for a high performance euro luxury/sport car.

In any case, if I was willing to pay euro sports car maintenance and i wanted a small euro luxury coupe, i would strongly consider an S5 for sure.



That said, I am happy with my GS350, its very quiet inside, decently quick (though no way it would keep up with an s5), and thus far, cheap to maintain. (though mine is a 2016, and I've only had it around a year and a half and only added 15k miles or so since COVID allows me to work at home/reducing my driving drastically)

 

[pauldun170]

Im guessing all the costs are in CAD.

So, if we in the US wanted to compare to the costs of maintaining our cars or trucks, we would need to multiply the dollar figures by approx 77% since $1CAD = $0.77USD

Still seems like a lot for maintaining something thatts not even 10 years old, but, i would think this would be within the expected range for a high performance euro luxury/sport car.

In any case, if I was willing to pay euro sports car maintenance and i wanted a small euro luxury coupe, i would strongly consider an S5 for sure.



That said, I am happy with my GS350, its very quiet inside, decently quick (though no way it would keep up with an s5), and thus far, cheap to maintain. (though mine is a 2016, and I've only had it around a year and a half and only added 15k miles or so since COVID allows me to work at home/reducing my driving drastically)

Going to disregard the misdiagnosis due to potential of simply a crap service department.
1. A/C Low Pressure Switch (although I think this may have been a misdiagnosis, see item 2) - $250
2. A/C Condenser - $1,200 - > Adjusted for currency conversion, thats not far off Lexus or other brands HOWEVER that generation R5 along with a other Audi models had a poor design - https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/air-con-condenser-design-fault.216978/page-7
3. Carbon cleaning process to correct Secondary Air Injection CE Light (Audi covered the majority of this cost under a prorated warranty) - $180 -> Curse of a lot of early DI motors. This isn't a "German" thing. It's across the board and the reason why a lot many manufacturers have introduced combo setups. (Tradeoff is $$$\Complexity when things go wrong)
4. Battery and 2 starter relays (misdiagnosis, see item 5) - $400
5. Starter - $1,300 (negotiated with dealership, original cost would have been $1,900) - > Additional cost due to the Audi tax of having to remove the bumper and radiator who knows what to get to it. This is going to to seem obscene to old timers who still have memories of a 6 pack of beer, a socket wrench and 30 minutes on other cars.
6. Front vehicle level sensor - $220 -> If this is what I think it is then,
- LOL "Luxury" tech.
- Stupid design and placement.
- Seems like an easy replacement on a $100.
7. Front wheel bearing - $750 -> I refuse to condemn Audi on this one without looking at just about every Subaru on the road

Regular Maintenance Items
1. Oil Changes - $200
2. DCT Transmission Service 2 times so far - $500 each -> As a manual transmission snob, this gives me the grins. What's the service interval?
3. Front Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $750 (Non OEM upgrade so no comment)
4. Rear Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $500 (Non OEM upgrade so no comment)
5. Summer Tires - $1,200 (seems legit)
6. Winter Tires and Rims (used set from an S4) - $1,200 (Seems legit)

So accounting for the fact that this a 6 year old fast luxury car with a very short list of competitors where the biggest issue is a poor condenser design susceptible to rocks. Maintenance seems to be dominated by that DCT.
What is it, every 20K for tender kisses from the service techs and every 40K for a full blown fluid and filter?

Edit: Audi is not alone on AC condensers

Honda Air Conditioning/Compressor Class Action Settlement

Honda reaches class action lawsuit settlement over faulty air conditioning systems in its Odyssey, CR-V and Acura TSX vehicles.

topclassactions.com

We have a 2008 Honda CRV and have been fighting with our a/c since 2017. Have spent several thousand dollars in repairs. A/C will work fine each time for a few weeks and then go out again. Car is currently at dealership and they have quoted me $2100 to replace compressor and relay.

2011 CR-V with 130,000 miles; quoted $1900 by Honda dealer for AC compressor replacement (including clutch and coil).

I need to check my notes but I think an S5 MIGHT run the 1/4 mile a bit faster than the CRV

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I can understand the desire for a sporty ride -- a sedan or sports-car. It would've made sense when I was younger (a long long time ago). Once I experienced a mid-size 4WD SUV, I was hooked on the comfort and versatility. If one must drive 50 miles per day in the journey to and from work, fuel economy is a priority. But these days, a sedan or something smaller is just too cramped for my liking. I want cargo space, not just "trunk space".

 

[DaTT]

Going to disregard the misdiagnosis due to potential of simply a crap service department.
1. A/C Low Pressure Switch (although I think this may have been a misdiagnosis, see item 2) - $250
2. A/C Condenser - $1,200 - > Adjusted for currency conversion, thats not far off Lexus or other brands HOWEVER that generation R5 along with a other Audi models had a poor design - https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/air-con-condenser-design-fault.216978/page-7
3. Carbon cleaning process to correct Secondary Air Injection CE Light (Audi covered the majority of this cost under a prorated warranty) - $180 -> Curse of a lot of early DI motors. This isn't a "German" thing. It's across the board and the reason why a lot many manufacturers have introduced combo setups. (Tradeoff is $$$\Complexity when things go wrong)
4. Battery and 2 starter relays (misdiagnosis, see item 5) - $400
5. Starter - $1,300 (negotiated with dealership, original cost would have been $1,900) - > Additional cost due to the Audi tax of having to remove the bumper and radiator who knows what to get to it. This is going to to seem obscene to old timers who still have memories of a 6 pack of beer, a socket wrench and 30 minutes on other cars.
6. Front vehicle level sensor - $220 -> If this is what I think it is then,
- LOL "Luxury" tech.
- Stupid design and placement.
- Seems like an easy replacement on a $100.
7. Front wheel bearing - $750 -> I refuse to condemn Audi on this one without looking at just about every Subaru on the road

Regular Maintenance Items
1. Oil Changes - $200
2. DCT Transmission Service 2 times so far - $500 each -> As a manual transmission snob, this gives me the grins. What's the service interval?
3. Front Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $750 (Non OEM upgrade so no comment)
4. Rear Brakes (non OEM upgrade) - $500 (Non OEM upgrade so no comment)
5. Summer Tires - $1,200 (seems legit)
6. Winter Tires and Rims (used set from an S4) - $1,200 (Seems legit)

So accounting for the fact that this a 6 year old fast luxury car with a very short list of competitors where the biggest issue is a poor condenser design susceptible to rocks. Maintenance seems to be dominated by that DCT.
What is it, every 20K for tender kisses from the service techs and every 40K for a full blown fluid and filter?

Edit: Audi is not alone on AC condensers

Honda Air Conditioning/Compressor Class Action Settlement

Honda reaches class action lawsuit settlement over faulty air conditioning systems in its Odyssey, CR-V and Acura TSX vehicles.

topclassactions.com

I need to check my notes but I think an S5 MIGHT run the 1/4 mile a bit faster than the CRV

I would like to note a few things:

1. Regarding the battery and relay misdiagnosis, it was cold outside when the starter failed. It was towed to the shop and parked inside until they got o it. When they began working, the starter worked fine once it was climatized. The dealership did make it right though by essentially not charging me for the parts and labour and giving me a further discount on the starter. And as mentioned above, motor mount removal and sub frame assembly removal to access, among other things. Cost is mostly labour.

2. Front level sensor has to do with the leveling and positioning of the Xenon headlights as to not blind other motorists, or not blind them as much . Labour was not a huge factor in this as it was done during an oil change, it was all parts cost.

3. DCT Transmission - While I do enjoy a manual transmission, that is all I have owned since 1999. With the commuting I was doing through stop and go traffic, I thought a change would be nice. Service intervals are 55k KM's

On a side note, I did puke a little in my mouth when they told me the cost to replace a starter.

And as for running a faster 1/4 than a CRV, only with the DCT for those quick shifts.

 

[DaTT]

If it's only $10/hr, I probably wouldn't worry about it. Having said that, Toronto is a global city so none of us here believes that you can't find a good Euro shop and save a lot of money. Here in L.A., the stealership generally quotes about 75% higher than indy shops.

I don't have the OP's sweet ride, but here's what my TCO looks like for a 2014 BMW 328i after 45 months. I drive a lot less, which makes my cost per mile somewhat high. Guess I need to take more road trips after COVID-19 dies out.

Repairs
$500 - insurance collision deductible (for a really nasty hit & run, while my car was parked overnight)
$89 - aftermarket tail lamp assembly (original had a small cosmetic chip, probably bought it that way)

Maintenance
$265 - 3 oil changes
$311 - Brake fluid flush & spark plugs @ 60k on the odometer
$519 - 2 RFT tires (tires had plenty of tread, but I seemingly ran over a screw)
$400 - Car washes

Depreciation
$11k - should be a little less, but the collision on the record causes some diminished value

Fuel
$3182

The last major cost item is insurance, which has averaged about $100/month. I've excluded a couple minor items such as SiriusXM subscriptions and accessories.

All in all, the TCO hasn't been too extreme for a German car. I was unlucky to eat the collision deductible and replace two tires @ 13k miles driven. Depreciation sucks a little bit, but will be way more reasonable going forward. Would I do it again? The short answer is yes, but the F30 chassis is the least beloved of all 3 Series. My plan is to keep the car indefinitely, but that all depends on future repair costs.

Earlier N20/N26 engines are susceptible to catastrophic timing chain guide failure, and BMW is currently settling a class action lawsuit in court that bumps covered repairs for up to 8 years. Unfortunately it's not a full recall so if you don't qualify, this repair is very expensive. I still had a chance to buy a Route 66 service plan two years ago, but ultimately decided to self-insure as F30 otherwise has a good reliability record.

I live outside of Toronto. There is nothing in my city, but there are a few in the next town over. With that said, I do require a courtesy vehicle and I have never found an indy shop that supplies one. With that said, I mentioned that I just haven't really spent the time looking for one either.

 

[sdifox]

I live outside of Toronto. There is nothing in my city, but there are a few in the next town over. With that said, I do require a courtesy vehicle and I have never found an indy shop that supplies one. With that said, I mentioned that I just haven't really spent the time looking for one either.

How far outside? :awe: I had my E350 serviced by a MB dealership mechanic at his home. He rents a garage if he needs a car jacked up a long time, like the engine pull I mentioned.

 

[DaTT]

How far outside? :awe: I had my E350 serviced by a MB dealership mechanic at his home. He rents a garage if he needs a car jacked up a long time, like the engine pull I mentioned.

I'm in Burlington