3 Militia members arrested in plot to bomb mosque and apartments

[brycejones]

I for one want to know why TH won't use the term "radical domestic militia terrorist". His refusal to do so must mean he supports them!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I for one want to know why TH won't use the term "radical domestic militia terrorist". His refusal to do must mean he supports them!

:awe:

goddammit, I really miss those old emoji's

 

[skyking]

all this wordplay is really annoying. The name militia was stolen by these self-appointed whackjobs. They are no more a militia than the Klan is. They resemble the Klan, or skinheads, or any other armed fringe nutjobs. Texas Hiker's definition is the one in the dictionary. Just because they like to call themselves militia, does not make it so.
They don't make themselves available to state and local government in the case of an emergency. They want to operate outside of local and federal governance on their own agenda, even when they are not overtly breaking the law.
EDIT: Let their actions define them. They are domestic terrorists, rebels.

 

[Mike64]

yea, but they're white.

And "domestic". And not Muslim.

But the really radical ones seem to be coming out of the woodwork these days.

There were some pretty radically whacky ones back in the day, too, and they even made the news once in a while. But I guess they figured keeping a lower profile was the better part of valor after Waco (although the Branch Davidians didn't call themselves a "militia", they did share their penchant for stockpiling firearms, as I recall), McVeigh's "little job" in OK, etc kinda took the "shine" off their "we're just a group of conscientious, patriotic Americans doing our part to keep democracy safe from those jack-booted thugs in Washington" image, such as it ever was...

 

[Commodus]

This is it/isn't it a militia talk is beside the point.

The issue is that the anti-Islam frenzy stoked by right-wing politicians for years, especially by Trump, is now creating homegrown terrorists who are convinced that merely being Muslim makes you a threat to the US.

You want to stop this from happening? Make sure Islamophobes like Trump are never allowed to hold office. If someone parrots that bullcrap about most Muslim immigrants wanting to practice Sharia law, call them out on it. Tell your politicians to accept that moderate Muslims exist, and that most Syrian refugees are just innocents looking for an escape from war. Basically: don't set it up as a war against a whole religion and you won't get people signing themselves up as warriors.

 

[skyking]

This is it/isn't it a militia talk is beside the point.

The issue is that the anti-Islam frenzy stoked by right-wing politicians for years, especially by Trump, is now creating homegrown terrorists who are convinced that merely being Muslim makes you a threat to the US.

You want to stop this from happening? Make sure Islamophobes like Trump are never allowed to hold office. If someone parrots that bullcrap about most Muslim immigrants wanting to practice Sharia law, call them out on it. Tell your politicians to accept that moderate Muslims exist, and that most Syrian refugees are just innocents looking for an escape from war. Basically: don't set it up as a war against a whole religion and you won't get people signing themselves up as warriors.

I do these things I belong to other forums and just don't tolerate that kind of talk. I practice being rather intolerant of intolerance

 

[Texashiker]

You want to stop this from happening? Make sure Islamophobes like Trump are never allowed to hold office.

I respectfully disagree.

Want to stop hate against islam, tell followers of islam to stop killing non-believers.

Islamophobes and Islamophobia is not a real word. A "phobia" is an irrational fear. Islam has given the world plenty of reasons to fear it. Fear of islam is based on history and reoccurring events that has spanned centuries.

The followers of Islam have given the world plenty of reasons to hate the religion. Just look at the isis videos on liveleak.

Liberals should be leading the way in denouncing islam. Look at the way islam treats women. But hillary accepts money from islamic nations.

 

[alien42]

why is it that most Islamophobic bigots like TH live in rural America, have never actually known a Muslim in their lives and are the least likely to be affected by any type of terrorism, especially Islamic based.

domestic right wing terrorists are a bigger threat to these people because they actually live among them.

 

[Texashiker]

why is it that most Islamophobic bigots like TH live in rural America, have never actually known a Muslim in their lives and are the least likely to be affected by any type of terrorism, especially Islamic based.

domestic right wing terrorists are a bigger threat to these people because they actually live amongst them.

I know several muslims. The ones I know are not the ones I am referring to.

Rather than debate the facts you sling insults.

Please stop using made up words like "Islamophobic". Fear of islam is based on actual events and history.

 

[Jaskalas]

Can not be both.

If that organization breaks the law, they are not a militia.

If an Islamic person breaks the law... they are no longer Islamic?

 

[Commodus]

I respectfully disagree.

Want to stop hate against islam, tell followers of islam to stop killing non-believers.

Islamophobes and Islamophobia is not a real word. A "phobia" is an irrational fear. Islam has given the world plenty of reasons to fear it. Fear of islam is based on history and reoccurring events that has spanned centuries.

The followers of Islam have given the world plenty of reasons to hate the religion. Just look at the isis videos on liveleak.

Liberals should be leading the way in denouncing islam. Look at the way islam treats women. But hillary accepts money from islamic nations.

Yes, there is such a thing as Islamophobia, and yes, it's irrational. It's not necessarily a psychosis, but it's close.

Rational would be accepting that it's highly unlikely that the majority of people in a faith of 1.6 billion people would be terrorists in waiting. Rational is knowing that ISIS is a small offshoot that, while fostering extremists abroad, does not come close to representing the sum total of the Muslim experience. Rational would be understanding that a family of four fleeing Syria probably isn't using Assad's destruction of their hometown as a pretext for a bomb plot against the very country hoping for Assad's downfall.

Also, remember what a phobia is: it's based on a real concern, but exaggerated and distorted beyond rational response levels. No one wants to fall to their death, but a fear of heights means you're paralyzed by the very thought of being in a high place. Some spiders can kill, but there's a difference between staying clear of black widow spiders and freaking out when you see a tiny house spider.

You see what I mean? Acting as if every Muslim is a ticking time bomb is about as phobic as it gets. It certainly was in the case of the anti-Muslim terrorists that started this thread. Did you read what they planned to do? They were willing to kill Muslim babies in the name of their cause. Events and history were the excuse for their paranoia, not a justification.

And us liberal-minded people do want to move toward more rights in Muslim countries, particularly for women. The difference is that we don't betray the principles of freedom of religion in order to get there -- we're not trying to declare an entire faith evil and create a simplistic us-versus-them conflict. Many of the first Americans left Britain precisely to get away from the religious discrimination that dictated life in Britain, and you're itching to bring that hatred back.

 

[JSt0rm]

right wingers are the same as isis except with a different culture.

 

[Knowing]

right wingers are the same as isis except with a different culture.

Not really. Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, beheads homosexuals, and kills Yemeni civilians (a game we're muscling in on) and donates to Hillary.

 

[JSt0rm]

Not really. Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, beheads homosexuals, and kills Yemeni civilians (a game we're muscling in on) and donates to Hillary.

Ultra right wing conservatives would behead homosexuals if they could. It would take about 50 years of heavy conservative monopoly with no controls for it to start happening. This is of course not with an American constitution in place

 

[IronWing]

Not really. Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, beheads homosexuals, and kills Yemeni civilians (a game we're muscling in on) and donates to Hillary.

I gave you a like for this because it is true and highlights the sad state of the Dem party. For a few brief years, it was a party of liberal values and moral decency. It didn't last. Now it's where the Reps were in the 80s.

 

[sdifox]

right wingers are the same as isis except with a different culture.

I dont think that is fair. There are rational right leaning individuals and they are the majority in the conservative camp. They are just being overpowered by fringe nuts at the moment.

 

[alien42]

I know several muslims. The ones I know are not the ones I am referring to.

Rather than debate the facts you sling insults.

Please stop using made up words like "Islamophobic". Fear of islam is based on actual events and history.

you're the one debating the facts, this thread is about homegrown domestic white christian militia terrorists and you're the only one who is debating that.

if you don't like being called a bigot, then don't act like one.

 

[Commodus]

Here's the answer as I see it: neither party is correctly handling relations with Muslim nations, but I would pick the Democrats over the Republicans any day.

Yes, Saudi Arabian links are a real problem. However, would you actually expect the Republicans to drop them? Remember who was buddy-buddy with Saudi Arabia for 1989-1993 and 2000-2008? Yeah. So long as major US political parties think there's an economic or geopolitical incentive to stay cozy with the Saudis, you're unlikely to see them sever ties.

And more importantly, the Dems at least grasp basic concepts like religious freedom... and nuance... and complexity. They understand that banning an entire religion from emigrating to your country doesn't improve your relations with that religion, and that it violates the very principles on which the US was based. They acknowledge that the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent extremists, and that any solution to fighting extremists will likely be complex and slow.

 

[zinfamous]

Can not be both.

If that organization breaks the law, they are not a militia.

What about the Bundy's? Are they still a militia group after breaking the law several times?

 

[IronWing]

What about the Bundy's? Are they still a militia group after breaking the law several times?

They're not organized.

 

[1prophet]

Three men were arrested in Kansas for plotting to bomb a Somali mosque and apartments. Extremists of any creed are the risk and are not limited to one faith or ethnic group.

http://www.kansas.com/news/state/article108279072.html

For those that prefer their news from Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/1...ed-bomb-plot-targeting-somali-immigrants.html

Exactly, that's why when you have your hands full of homegrown religious right, militia, etc. you don't do something stupid and bring in the religious right on steroids from the middle east by the tens of thousands into your home, it's to bad phony liberals are more concerned over what the right thinks than preserving and protecting the very hard fought freedoms that help protect us from the medieval mindset.

One thing these pretend liberals should be thankful for is that at least we don't have a country similar to Saudi Arabia (under US protection of course) using billions of petrodollars to fund the Westboro Baptist Church types in America so they can spread their hate like they are doing with Islam allover the world,

otherwise Transgender bathrooms and gay marriage wouldn't be on the discussion table today because we would still be stuck at giving women the right to associate with males not related or married to, the right to choose whom to marry., the right to drive, choose an education and job etc. never mind the abortion debate, while being openly gay would be a crime and you can forget about gay marriage.

Do you apologists want to turn the clock back for your idiotic multiculturalism so you can score some sort of points in your twisted minds against some Trump deplorable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_States

Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson
The U.S. Supreme Court in Joseph Burstyn, Inc. v. Wilson, 343 U.S. 495 (1952) held that the New York State blasphemy law was an unconstitutional prior restraint on freedom of speech. The court stated that "It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches or motion pictures."

Image an ACLU member that wants to legally ban anything he considers blasphemous against christian beliefs, impossible you say?

Don't we have enough problems without bringing in hundreds of thousands that will support people like this?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/1...-who-supports-blasphemy-ban-daniel-greenfield

CAIR Ex-Chairman Who Supports Blasphemy Ban Elected to Human Rights Commission
Parvez Ahmed, the former Chairman of CAIR, had served on the Florida ACLU's Board of Directors

During his time with CAIR, Ahmed had given a speech declaring that, "I think the next steps would be to broaden the scope of anti-hate laws and even contemplate about passing blasphemy laws, because blasphemy with such sacred icons, like the Prophet Muhammad, like the Koran, or the cross, or other religious symbols … So governments, legislatures, international bodies … must contemplate about what are the ways in which an anti-blasphemy law can be passed that can protect the right to exercise freedom of religion."

 

[Texashiker]

Yes, there is such a thing as Islamophobia, and yes, it's irrational. It's not necessarily a psychosis, but it's close.

Rational would be accepting that it's highly unlikely that the majority of people in a faith of 1.6 billion people would be terrorists in waiting. Rational is knowing that ISIS is a small offshoot that, while fostering extremists abroad, does not come close to representing the sum total of the Muslim experience.

Is iran hanging gays irrational? This is not an offshoot or some sect, iran is a whole nation.

Is Saudi Arabia stoning women irrational? You know Saudi Arabia has laws allowing the execution of gays?

The quran teaches to wage war on the non-believers until everyone follows islam.

How is examples of nations and the teachings of the quran irrational?

you're the one debating the facts, this thread is about homegrown domestic white christian militia terrorists and you're the only one who is debating that.

What don't you understand, militias help maintain order.

A militia that breaks the law is no longer a militia.

The media and yourself are using the term "militia" as a buzzword. Militias, are not, and can not, be terrorist. If they break the law they no longer meet the definition of a militia.

 

[IronWing]

Three Christian right wing militia terrorists plan to blow up innocent people in America and you're still stuck on Muslims.

 

[Texashiker]

Three Christian right wing militia terrorists plan to blow up innocent people in America and you're still stuck on Muslims.

What is it people such as yourself do not understand, they do not meet the definition of militia members.

If something does not meet the definition, how can you call it something?

Does gasoline meet the definition of water? Nope.

Does milk meet the definition of kerosene? Nope.

A terrorist organization does not meet the definition of a militia.

 

[Jhhnn]

Exactly, that's why when you have your hands full of homegrown religious right, militia, etc. you don't do something stupid and bring in the religious right on steroids from the middle east by the tens of thousands into your home, it's to bad phony liberals are more concerned over what the right thinks than preserving and protecting the very hard fought freedoms that help protect us from the medieval mindset.

One thing these pretend liberals should be thankful for is that at least we don't have a country similar to Saudi Arabia (under US protection of course) using billions of petrodollars to fund the Westboro Baptist Church types in America so they can spread their hate like they are doing with Islam allover the world,

otherwise Transgender bathrooms and gay marriage wouldn't be on the discussion table today because we would still be stuck at giving women the right to associate with males not related or married to, the right to choose whom to marry., the right to drive, choose an education and job etc. never mind the abortion debate, while being openly gay would be a crime and you can forget about gay marriage.

Do you apologists want to turn the clock back for your idiotic multiculturalism so you can score some sort of points in your twisted minds against some Trump deplorable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_States



Image an ACLU member that wants to legally ban anything he considers blasphemous against christian beliefs, impossible you say?

Don't we have enough problems without bringing in hundreds of thousands that will support people like this?

Oh, God! It'll be Sharia Law for all 300M of us!

It's really no different than the old testament law of the Dominionists & the Christian Reconstructionists, but, uhh, never mind, right?

Meanwhile, we have islamophobic racist right wing nut bars plotting attacks on innocent people. But we shouldn't denounce that, shouldn't talk about it, shouldn't take the attitude that we need to keep our own side of the street clean.