3% healthcare surcharge at SF restaurants? Are you kidding me SF???

[spidey07]

Does the tax funnel the money back to the restaurant to cover their costs of health care or does the tax go into the city coffers to go toward other purposes and/or health care for non-employees of the restaurant?

Suspicion that it is the latter. They are asking people that dine/shop in SF to help to cover costs of the city instead of increasing the local share of the sales tax or increasing the property tax

IE: Soak the tourists rather than the locals - even though the tax does not benefit the tourists.

To be fair tourists already pay a crap load of local taxes in every city/state (ever look at your hotel bill?, especially in high tourism areas). Tourism is big money.

 

[nerp]

It is the responsibility of said worker to keep himself healthy and his alone.

Sounds neat, but that's not what the law says.

 

[spidey07]

Sounds neat, but that's not what the law says.

Then who the hell is responsible for keeping yourself healthy?

It certainly isn't and has never been ones employer or the city.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

There is literally no defense for dropping 4 points from your tip to make up for this charge. The staff probably has no control over the compulsory charge to the restaurant, nor to it being passed on to the consumer. If you can't afford to pay an appropriate tip, with or without this tax, you shouldn't be dining out.

Well it's not that I won't pay an appropriate tip. Will I be like "WTF another charge?" Yes I will, and I can see how a first-timer might normally feel generous and tip 20% for a wonderful anniversary dinner, but with this charge might sour up the mood and he/she ight stick to 15% or 18% then. Should the server penalized? I don't think so, but does another charge sour up the mood? If you fill me up with wine and alcohol I might just feel merry enough to leave you another $5 extra, but catch me on the wrong day, and you might only get 15%.

Like I said, restaurants can choose to absorb this fee and jack up their menu prices by 4%. I dine out with my gf a lot in SF. I know the routine. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. Like I said, I don't penalize the server, so don't get all holier-than-thou on me. Maybe the first time I was ticked off and I felt more conservative in tipping, but by now I'm accustomed to it, so I just shrug it off. But as I said before, I can see why someone would be pissed off by this and take it out on the server with my explanation.

 

[Jaskalas]

Are you kidding me SF???

I suggest you move.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Yes, providing healthcare for your employees is madness... Who would want to pay 3% to make sure that the person cooking and serving their food is healthy?

While you're at it, why don't you pay for my mortgage too. Oh wait, we already do that. But sure, why don't you pay for 3% of my mortgage. My $600,000 mortgage.

 

[spidey07]

Well it's not that I won't pay an appropriate tip. Will I be like "WTF another charge?" Yes I will, and I can see how a first-timer might normally feel generous and tip 20% for a wonderful anniversary dinner, but with this charge might sour up the mood and he/she ight stick to 15% or 18% then. Should the server penalized? I don't think so, but does another charge sour up the mood? If you fill me up with wine and alcohol I might just feel merry enough to leave you another $5 extra, but catch me on the wrong day, and you might only get 15%.

Like I said, restaurants can choose to absorb this fee and jack up their menu prices by 4%. I dine out with my gf a lot in SF. I know the routine. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. Like I said, I don't penalize the server, so don't get all holier-than-thou on me. Maybe the first time I was ticked off and I felt more conservative in tipping, but by now I'm accustomed to it, so I just shrug it off. But as I said before, I can see why someone would be pissed off by this and take it out on the server with my explanation.

At the risk of sounding like an asshole I would absolutely subtract it from the tip. But I would also leave a note for the server and the manager of the restaurant:

"elections have consequences, especially local ones. Think about that next time"

 

[mugs]

It's a VAT tax in disguise.

Could you explain how this is a VAT in disguise?

 

[feralkid]

Here's an idea for people in SF that don't want to deal with this: VOTE NANCY PELOSI THE FUCK OUT OF OFFICE. Then you won't have to deal with bullshit legislation being passed. Seriously, nobody thought that business' increased healthcare costs wouldn't end up coming from the consumers?

Pretty sure this is a local tax, Chuck.

 

[spidey07]

Could you explain how this is a VAT in disguise?

A tax on retail goods and services to pay for healthcare is what all the euro-peeons had to institute. How is this different? IIRC the VAT was put in action to specifically address this - massive entitlement programs and the gubment couldn't fund them. Hence the euphomism "value added tax".

I really hate it when I have to do business in france. Those stupid fucks actually put up with it.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Well it's not that I won't pay an appropriate tip. Will I be like "WTF another charge?" Yes I will, and I can see how a first-timer might normally feel generous and tip 20% for a wonderful anniversary dinner, but with this charge might sour up the mood and he/she ight stick to 15% or 18% then. Should the server penalized? I don't think so, but does another charge sour up the mood? If you fill me up with wine and alcohol I might just feel merry enough to leave you another $5 extra, but catch me on the wrong day, and you might only get 15%.

Like I said, restaurants can choose to absorb this fee and jack up their menu prices by 4%. I dine out with my gf a lot in SF. I know the routine. Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. Like I said, I don't penalize the server, so don't get all holier-than-thou on me. Maybe the first time I was ticked off and I felt more conservative in tipping, but by now I'm accustomed to it, so I just shrug it off. But as I said before, I can see why someone would be pissed off by this and take it out on the server with my explanation.

I wasn't directing anything toward you specifically. However, I don't see how the charge could "sour the mood." You're going to get hit with the tax no matter what restaurant you visit in SF; as you acknowledged, it's just that some may show it explicitly on the bill and some won't.

The people saying they would tip less and/or leave some nasty note are lashing out in a seriously stupid way that will elicit no change at all, except maybe next time they'll get a well-deserved phlegm-burger if they revisit the establishment they "punish." It's not just the server that gets fucked by bad tips. Tips usually get split amongst the front of the house, and sometimes the back as well depending on custom. So you'll also piss off the host, bus boys, maybe a bartender, cook...

The point is: the people up in arms about this should complain to local government, and if that 4% puts them over budget for their meal, then they should stay home instead of taking it out of the tip. End of story.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

At the risk of sounding like an asshole I would absolutely subtract it from the tip. But I would also leave a note for the server and the manager of the restaurant:

"elections have consequences, especially local ones. Think about that next time"

The risk is 100%. You should not dine out in San Francisco. Most restaurant owners opposed this, so you'll be preaching to the choir and knocking one more place off the list of restaurants where you can avoid getting a butt-wiped steak.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Let me opt out of the paying for it and I'll be absolutely giddy. That extra 10 grand a year could come in real handy.

Yeah, like getting your own insurance that actually works, and putting it away in a retirement fund that earns interest... Dang man, think of how much you'd have if you took that $10k each year and stuck it in a nice interest-bearing IRA for 35+ years? :awe:

 

[mugs]

A tax on retail goods and services to pay for healthcare is what all the euro-peeons had to institute. How is this different? IIRC the VAT was put in action to specifically address this - massive entitlement programs and the gubment couldn't fund them. Hence the euphomism "value added tax".

I really hate it when I have to do business in france. Those stupid fucks actually put up with it.

OK, I thought maybe I was missing something but my first assumption was right - you don't actually know what a VAT is. I even figured your aversion to a VAT had something to do with its association with European social programs.

Do you realize how absurd it is to be opposed to a particular type of tax because of how another country spends its tax revenue? It's not as if VAT is inextricably linked to socialized healthcare.

This sounds like a sales tax, and your objection to VATs is irrational and misplaced. Focus on the spending, not the type of tax.

 

[glenn1]

If that was the sum total of comment on this in this thread, then you'd be right. But that isn't all. We are, of course, treated to the usual ideological litany of talking points about why we shouldn't have to pay for other people's healthcare, not to mention various snipes at Nancy Pelosi, who is The Liberal We All Love to Hate - no matter that she is in the U.S. Congress and has nothing to do with decisions of the S.F. Board of Supervisors. And my response is, so what, this is a local decision in a liberal city, so what do any of you even care? I thought all this stuff was only a problem at the national level, and that states and localities should be able to act as they choose, in accordance with the will of their constituents?

- wolf

I think progressive economic policies are stupid, yet I agree with the above. SF can set tax rates at whatever level they choose, the higher the better IMHO.

 

[MotF Bane]

There's a reason SF has many top companies, has a very high income level, and high standard of living. Taxes.
You don't like it, don't go there.

lol

lol

Detroit has one of the highest tax rates in the country too.

win

guess why everyone is trying to GTFO out of NYS

double win

 

[spidey07]

OK, I thought maybe I was missing something but my first assumption was right - you don't actually know what a VAT is. I even figured your aversion to a VAT had something to do with its association with European social programs.

Do you realize how absurd it is to be opposed to a particular type of tax because of how another country spends its tax revenue? It's not as if VAT is inextricably linked to socialized healthcare.

This sounds like a sales tax, and your objection to VATs is irrational and misplaced. Focus on the spending, not the type of tax.

Well of course. If the city/county/state didn't over extend itself it wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Why do you think so many people and businesses are fleeing CA? I oppose a VAT only because it is on top of the other income, FICA and property taxes I am required to pay. When you pay more than half of your money in taxes it is indeed slavery.

Your work is your life, your time on earth. This time and life are given to you only once and when goverment at any level seeks to take from you this life, this liberty, then we have a serious problem on our hands.

So you're OK with a 9.5% sales tax and a 4% VAT on top of your other tax burden on income? I'm pretty sure you've traveled europe on business and can relate. Can we call CA the failed EU state now?

 

[Vic]

I wonder if some of you have any line in which you say "okay, enough is enough"

That's the "line" where you exercise your freedom of choice to not live there or do business there.

Problem solved.

 

[theeedude]

While you're at it, why don't you pay for my mortgage too. Oh wait, we already do that. But sure, why don't you pay for 3% of my mortgage. My $600,000 mortgage.

Their mortgage has no bearing on me. Them being healthy when they prepare and serve my food does, plus I already subsidize your mortgage through your interest tax deduction.

 

[BoberFett]

I wonder if some of you have any line in which you say "okay, enough is enough"

Some people enjoy taking it up the bum from greedy politicians. They're called "Democrats."

 

[Hacp]

Their mortgage has no bearing on me. Them being healthy when they prepare and serve my food does, plus I already subsidize your mortgage through your interest tax deduction.

So make it known to the owner that you demand healthy workers. Then the owner can fire the people that get sick and replace them with fresh, healthy employees.

 

[ProfJohn]

Their mortgage has no bearing on me. Them being healthy when they prepare and serve my food does, plus I already subsidize your mortgage through your interest tax deduction.

Technically you don't subsidize his mortgage.

The mortgage deduction just means that he pays less in taxes, it does not mean that anyone is actually subsidizing his mortgage.

 

[theeedude]

So make it known to the owner that you demand healthy workers. Then the owner can fire the people that get sick and replace them with fresh, healthy employees.

Or I could just pay 3% tax, which means precisely jack sh!t to me.

 

[theeedude]

Technically you don't subsidize his mortgage.

The mortgage deduction just means that he pays less in taxes, it does not mean that anyone is actually subsidizing his mortgage.

Only in your mind, buddy. Someone pays more taxes to cover his deduction, while receiving no benefit from it.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yeah but with outrageous min wage laws in SF, I bet you they get insane pay already. All these benefits like sick days, etc wtf. Most modern companies now just go with PTO. I don't care if you're sick or you're flying to Mexico. It comes out of the same pool. Anyway, they get all these perks already.

You're right I won't penalize my server, but I can understand why some people will do it.



I find this statement funny. Alameda County across the bay has a 9.75% sales tax versus the 9.50% in SF. Last I checked Alameda County also has the shittiest neighborhoods. YEAH OAKLAND! Crap crime rates, terrible poverty, etc etc. I went to school in Berkeley. SF is definitely better. I have no issues parking in SF when I have to go towards Civic Center/Tenderloin more because Union Square is a clusterfvck. I just parked my car by Glide Memorial church the other day (if anyone remembers from The Pursuit of Happyness) and it's not as scary as when I park my car in Chinatown in Oakland to go sing Karaoke. But anyway, SF isn't exactly "high standard of living" either. Old small homes for ridiculous prices. Terrible traffic, homelessness, crime (although much better than Oakland)

Then you have the South Bay that's at 9.25%. Home of Apple, Intel, AMD, nVidia, etc. all your top tech companies are there. That is the highest standard of living my friend. We don't have as much homeless problems, standard of living problems poor roads, terrible schools, etc. Yeah. Crime? I can tell you that growing up here my friends are retarded. They would leave laptops in their cars in open view and nothing would happen. Crime is just nonexistent in our communities. The one homicide that occurs every 10 years in our city becomes breaking news for a week straight because it's unheard of. Yes. Lowest sales tax in the bay, and I enjoy my multiple highways (come on... i never really knew about congestion till I lived in the East Bay), well maintained neighborhoods, good schools, safe communities, etc.

High standard of living my ass. Too many people from SF seem to think that they live in some sort of heaven. It's like they've never gone outside of their city or something (quite likely because I have friends who are in college and can't even drive because I guess you never need to drive in SF)

lol@suburbanite haters. Stay out then, its good the toll is 6$ to keep idiots and cars out.