3 day ceasefire ends; Rockets launched into Israel

[cabri]

As the government responsible for Gaza, Israel has a duty to prevent rocket fire. Israel has a duty to seek out those firing the rockets. Israel has instead chosen the route of collective punishment. Israel chooses to blame Hamas for failing to control other groups when it is Israel's stranglehold on Gaza that prevents Hamas from functioning as a local government. Israel calls the shots and Israel needs to be held accountable.

And that is exactly what Israel is doing; removing the thread.

Israel is not the government responsible for Gaza.
The Palestinians wanted control; it was granted to them.
Israel controls her borders around Gaza. Once troops were pulled out of Gaza unconditionally; Gaza became the responsibility of the Palestinians. Israel has allowed access to Gaza from her borders; there is no need for her to do so.

Hamas has two sub groups.
The civilian which administers the government and the militant that continually chooses to attack Israel and recently also, Egypt.

The civilian one used to try to do good; then the organization started redirecting the good deeds into military actions.
The tunnels are a perfect example. The world provided funds and materials for the Palestinians to build up Gaza. Israel was pressured to allow those material in for humanitarian reasons; They stated that the wool was being pulled over everyone's eyes. We now can see where those funds and materials went to. Israel was right. They understand their enemy unlike the misguided Palestinian supporters.

And you chose to blame Israel for the misdirection done by Hamas?

Israel does not call the shots; the Palestinians do. They chose Hamas over Fatah 10 years ago. They saw what Hamas wanted to do 2 years later.
They still support Hamas actions; therefore they also need to accept the results.

Israel has the obligation to defend her population. Your complain is that they do it to well; you desire casualties among the civilians just like Hamas does.

If there is a independent state of Palestine, then the government of that state needs to accept responsibility for their actions. If they wish to start a conflict; they better be ready to accept the results. Presently, that result had encouraged shutdown of the borders. And then also the decision to escalate the conflict has brought destruction.

Israel has notified Hamas and the world that the escalation will continue if there is provocation.

Hamas has also demonstrated that as an government that they have no concern for the civilians within Gaza

They have also demonstrated that they chose to violate the Geneva Convention by launching rockets at civilian centers.

Launching rockets at a nuclear power plant and civilian airport does not make brownie points to the world.

 

[cabri]

At least israel killed another child so the idf defenders on here have more to jerk off to.

So Israel is to not defend itself from attacks?

A loss of a child is a shame; however, the child was killed when Israel retaliated for the rocket attacks.

Israel did not launch the strike preemptively.

Why do the Palestinians supporters refuse to accept that Hamas & company is responsible for provoking the attacks?

They know that attacking Israel is going to generate a response; do they want the response to cover up their own misdeeds?

Israel is starting to take off the kid gloves. Their original state mission was to destroy the known tunnels.

Now that Hamas wants to push the issue; Israel will respond; They have no obligation to support Gaza; expect that the flow off goods allowed in will be reduced as long as Hamas acts the way they are doing.

While some may say Israel needs to back off first to show good faith; Hamas has shown that doing so matters not; they want it all.

 

[Phynaz]

Gaza is the equivalent of a township under the South African apartheid regime. Israel controls the borders, trade, and every other aspect of life that it chooses to control in Gaza. Gazan autonomy only exists at the convenience of Israel. Israel is the controlling state in Gaza.

Israel controls Israel's borders. I think you need a geography lesson.

 

[realibrad]

And that is exactly what Israel is doing; removing the thread.

Israel is not the government responsible for Gaza.
The Palestinians wanted control; it was granted to them.
Israel controls her borders around Gaza. Once troops were pulled out of Gaza unconditionally; Gaza became the responsibility of the Palestinians. Israel has allowed access to Gaza from her borders; there is no need for her to do so.

Hamas has two sub groups.
The civilian which administers the government and the militant that continually chooses to attack Israel and recently also, Egypt.

The civilian one used to try to do good; then the organization started redirecting the good deeds into military actions.
The tunnels are a perfect example. The world provided funds and materials for the Palestinians to build up Gaza. Israel was pressured to allow those material in for humanitarian reasons; They stated that the wool was being pulled over everyone's eyes. We now can see where those funds and materials went to. Israel was right. They understand their enemy unlike the misguided Palestinian supporters.

And you chose to blame Israel for the misdirection done by Hamas?

Israel does not call the shots; the Palestinians do. They chose Hamas over Fatah 10 years ago. They saw what Hamas wanted to do 2 years later.
They still support Hamas actions; therefore they also need to accept the results.

Israel has the obligation to defend her population. Your complain is that they do it to well; you desire casualties among the civilians just like Hamas does.

If there is a independent state of Palestine, then the government of that state needs to accept responsibility for their actions. If they wish to start a conflict; they better be ready to accept the results. Presently, that result had encouraged shutdown of the borders. And then also the decision to escalate the conflict has brought destruction.

Israel has notified Hamas and the world that the escalation will continue if there is provocation.

Hamas has also demonstrated that as an government that they have no concern for the civilians within Gaza

They have also demonstrated that they chose to violate the Geneva Convention by launching rockets at civilian centers.

Launching rockets at a nuclear power plant and civilian airport does not make brownie points to the world.

Israel has killed thousands of civilians. Why should Hamas not be able to fire rockets at nuclear power plants that could kill millions?

Hamas surrounds themselves with civilians and Israel is the devil. Hamas fires rockets are nuclear plants and they are fighting for freedom!

 

[blankslate]

So Hamas was firing rockets filled with sweets for good little Israeli boys and girls?

So do you need serious remedial training in reading comprehension or are you just trying to be funny?
Nothing in post #74 of this thread even suggests that I think Hamas is blameless...

Hamas and Netanyahu are the right wingers in the area benefiting from the military actions in Gaza right now.

Netanyahu is very popular in Israel right now. The thing is his actions are making it easy for Hamas to gain support from the citizens in Gaza.

Does stating the obvious mean that I think Hamas is blameless? Their refusal is to recognize Israel is one of (if not actually) the biggest obstacles to a peace settlement in the area but if you think that the Israeli military actions in Gaza will remove the support of Palestinians living in Gaza from Hamas without war crimes being committed you are just ignorant.

one of my first posts about the latest flare up of violence in the region
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36553489&postcount=89

The ending of this conflict might just never happen.

However a good start would involve

• Hamas accepting the Egyptian proposed ceasefire (if that is even still on the table) and acknowledging the right of Israel to exist
• Israel freezing the expansion of settlements
• Both Israeli and Palestinian citizens getting rid of their respective right wing asshole leaders

reflects that I think that both sides need to back off and give a bit starting with Hamas.

What is happening is just a continuation of a cycle of violence that Yitzhak Rabin tried to end in the 90's with the help of the U.S. at the time. Only he got shot by a rightwing fucktard traitor to Israel for his trouble. Maybe Yasser Arafat might not have done his part to make the peace negotiations a success but we'll never know. Didn't people in the region deserve to find out without the stupid actions of a murderer ending peace talks?





......

 

[fskimospy]

Israel controls Israel's boarders. I think you need a geography lesson.

Israel also controls Gaza. There's a reason it's considered occupied territory.

 

[cabri]

Israel also controls Gaza. There's a reason it's considered occupied territory.

Are there any Israeli people assigned inside the Gaza borders, military, civilian, settlers, diplomats?

Are there Israeli citizens living within the Gaza borders?

Israel controls access to Gaza from her borders; Gaza is controlled by the Palestinians and Hamas.

 

[fskimospy]

Are there any Israeli people assigned inside the Gaza borders, military, civilian, settlers, diplomats?

Are there Israeli citizens living within the Gaza borders?

Israel controls access to Gaza from her borders; Gaza is controlled by the Palestinians and Hamas.

Don't take it up with me, take it up with every single international organization. They seem to think otherwise.

 

[realibrad]

Don't take it up with me, take it up with every single international organization. They seem to think otherwise.

Hey, I'm usually on your side about a lot of things, but apparently not this.

A statement was made that Israel was not occupying Gaza, just controlling its borders. You then refuted that post by saying that Israel is in fact controlling GAZA. The word occupied does not mean controlling from the outside, it means from within. So even though other organizations may call it occupation, it is in fact not occupation by the literal use of the word.

So when the poster said it was not "Occupation" he was correct. He understand that Israel is not passive, but to call it an Occupying force would be incorrect by definition.

 

[nehalem256]

Israel also controls Gaza. There's a reason it's considered occupied territory.

In 2005, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip under their unilateral disengagement plan. In July 2007, following the 2006 Palestinian legislative election and the Hamas takeover in 2007, Hamas had functioned as the de facto ruler in the Gaza Strip, forming an alternative Hamas Government in Gaza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

Does that sound like an occupation to you?

 

[fskimospy]

Hey, I'm usually on your side about a lot of things, but apparently not this.

A statement was made that Israel was not occupying Gaza, just controlling its borders. You then refuted that post by saying that Israel is in fact controlling GAZA. The word occupied does not mean controlling from the outside, it means from within. So even though other organizations may call it occupation, it is in fact not occupation by the literal use of the word.

So when the poster said it was not "Occupation" he was correct. He understand that Israel is not passive, but to call it an Occupying force would be incorrect by definition.

I understand what you're saying, but the UN still considers Gaza occupied, even without Israeli soldiers immediately present. This includes both the General Assembly and the Security Council:

http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2012/01/27/un-we-still-consider-gaza-occupied-by-israel/

 

[fskimospy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

Does that sound like an occupation to you?

You should add international relations to the list of things you don't know anything about, dumbass.

From your own link:

In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[130] In a 2009 interview on Democracy Now Christopher Gunness, spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) called Israel an occupying power.[131]

I've lost count of how many times you've owned yourself by not reading the links you cite. Do you have a ballpark estimate?

 

[nehalem256]

I understand what you're saying, but the UN still considers Gaza occupied, even without Israeli soldiers immediately present. This includes both the General Assembly and the Security Council:

http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2012/01/27/un-we-still-consider-gaza-occupied-by-israel/

Sounds like the UN doesn't understand the difference between a blockade and an occupation.

 

[fskimospy]

Sounds like the UN doesn't understand the difference between a blockade and an occupation.

Let's consider this. We have the recognized legal authority for what constitutes an occupation on one side and we have a guy who wants to fuck toasters on the other. Tough call.

It's funny that you seem to think you're displaying the stupidity of liberals when you constantly embarrass yourself like this.

 

[nehalem256]

You should add international relations to the list of things you don't know anything about, dumbass.

From your own link:


I've lost count of how many times you've owned yourself by not reading the links you cite. Do you have a ballpark estimate?

Perhaps you should try reading yours?

Earlier this month, on Jan. 6, the UN chief’s spokesman promised to respond to UN Watch’s question as to why the UN still considers Gaza “occupied” even though Hamas admits it’s not, given that Israel hasn’t been there since 2005.

 

[Sinsear]

Good; i was hoping this was not over yet.

Israel has more work to do.

 

[realibrad]

I understand what you're saying, but the UN still considers Gaza occupied, even without Israeli soldiers immediately present. This includes both the General Assembly and the Security Council:

http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2012/01/27/un-we-still-consider-gaza-occupied-by-israel/

The point was not about semantics though.

"Israel is the controlling state in Gaza"

The response was then to say that no, Israel is not a controlling state "In" Gaza. Israel is not "occupying" but controlling.

Just because the UN decides to misuse a word, dont make make the incorrect usage legitimate.

 

[fskimospy]

The point was not about semantics though.

"Israel is the controlling state in Gaza"

The response was then to say that no, Israel is not a controlling state "In" Gaza. Israel is not "occupying" but controlling.

Just because the UN decides to misuse a word, dont make make the incorrect usage legitimate.

Their judgment is because Israel still controls the airspace over Gaza and exhibits de facto control over the area that they are still the occupying power. It's not misuse of the word, its the judgment of the situation by the international body with legal authority over making those determinations.

"Occupying power" has some very specific meanings and some very specific obligations under international law. That's why Israel has been fighting really hard to get that determination changed. They have been unsuccessful so far.

 

[fskimospy]

Perhaps you should try reading yours?

Nope! Unless a sentence from a blogger has suddenly gained a greater force in international law than the Security Council without telling me?

Look, you owned yourself again. Too late to change that now.

 

[dainthomas]

Israel controls Israel's boarders. I think you need a geography lesson.

Borders.

And if Gaza sucks so bad, it's peace loving citizens should leave via it's border with Egypt. Surely they would have no problem admitting such upstanding people.

 

[realibrad]

Their judgment is because Israel still controls the airspace over Gaza and exhibits de facto control over the area that they are still the occupying power. It's not misuse of the word, its the judgment of the situation by the international body with legal authority over making those determinations.

"Occupying power" has some very specific meanings and some very specific obligations under international law. That's why Israel has been fighting really hard to get that determination changed. They have been unsuccessful so far.

"Article 42 of the Hague Regulations states that a “territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army”."

As far as I can tell, Israel does not control the territory, just some of the activity around it. 90% of normal activity is still not under Israel control.

 

[Sinsear]

I understand what you're saying, but the UN still considers Gaza occupied, even without Israeli soldiers immediately present. This includes both the General Assembly and the Security Council:

http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2012/01/27/un-we-still-consider-gaza-occupied-by-israel/

The UN, lulz

 

[fskimospy]

"Article 42 of the Hague Regulations states that a “territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army”."

As far as I can tell, Israel does not control the territory, just some of the activity around it. 90% of normal activity is still not under Israel control.

And I'm telling you that the body who determines such things disagrees.

I don't really know what else to say. International law has spoken.

If your idea is that international law doesn't matter, then the discussion is pointless anyway as it doesn't matter what we call it.

 

[rommelrommel]

Borders.

And if Gaza sucks so bad, it's peace loving citizens should leave via it's border with Egypt. Surely they would have no problem admitting such upstanding people.

They are so upstanding that Egypt built a wall to keep the sheer awesomeness of Hamas out of Egypt, as Egypt just could not withstand so much fun and cuddles.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Israel has killed thousands of civilians. Why should Hamas not be able to fire rockets at nuclear power plants that could kill millions?

Hamas surrounds themselves with civilians and Israel is the devil. Hamas fires rockets are nuclear plants and they are fighting for freedom!

Okay so lets get this straight -- We have a country that has no navy, no air force, no special forces, not really an army, no tanks, no place to hide, k-mart rockets, yet they want to fight a war with Israel which is a powerhouse, I don't get it. they built (Gaza) tunnels to surprise the enemy, something like the Trojan horse concept. now who is advising these people to wage war.