3-d game rendering turns me off

[Fike]

Every few months I check out what is new in strategy games...usually I look at medieval battlefield and castle games or something fantasy. I liked the old warcraft games too.

These days, it seems that if your game doesn't have a 3-d rendering engine of some sort, you will sell not games. Everything uses them. I honestly don't like the effect. I have a decent computer and most of the games are sluggish. They only look good when you have everyting turned way up, and that requires a honkin' machine to perform well. I don't upgrade my video card every 6 months.

My favorite games....old simcity, Age of Empires II, Stronghold I, Age of Magic, Age of Kings. I guess I am just an antiquated relic, but I am not sold that 3-d is all that great in games.

Am I crazy, old, outdated,? What?

 

[Smilin]

mmm, you are outdated, yea. You are not old or crazy though. Your basic premise of a "good game" is very sound.


biggest thing that 3d adds in the games you mention (RTSes) is the ability to zoom in-out, and run at varying resolutions. Starcraft for instance (one great non-3d game!) has a maximum resolution that it will run at. I just looks downright sh1tty on my 22" screen.

Although I am a huge fan of 3D graphics, graphics alone do NOT make a great game.

There is a limit to how old-and-crappy looking I'll put up with though. Although AOE II has great gameplay, there are better games out now AND they have 3D. Empire Earth was way better than AOE II for instance (despite the fact it's 3D graphics were very mediocre compared to the rich sprite graphics of AOE II).

I'm playing DefCon from Introversion software right now. The graphics are deliberately very retro. It's the gameplay that makes it fun.

Although I will *always* agree that graphics alone don't make a game, if you are running hardware so old that you can only play the older stuff then you are really missing out on some great games (that happen to also have nice graphics).


edit: Just checked out your rig in your sig. I think your monitor is the reason you aren't getting all the hubub about 3d graphics. Lay down $200 for a 19-22" LCD then run those non-3d games on it. I'm betting you'll take one look then run out and buy a new video card... you could probably triple your video card horsepower for $150 right now. easy.

 

[Fike]

I have gotten a new dell 20 inch wide screen lcd. It hasn't been that big an improvement. I am not sure that I could get a much better video card for less then $150 or $200.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Fike
I have gotten a new dell 20 inch wide screen lcd. It hasn't been that big an improvement. I am not sure that I could get a much better video card for less then $150 or $200.

If you are still running an nVidia 4200 I'm POSITIVE you could double or triple your performance for about $100-$125.

Pop out to newegg and filter to the 100-200 dollar cards. You can get an nVidia AGP 6600 for $102.99 (for instance).

There are nvidia 7 series cards for < 150 now too if you are go pci-x


Don't your non-3d games look all blown up and pixilated on that new LCD??

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: Fike
I have gotten a new dell 20 inch wide screen lcd. It hasn't been that big an improvement. I am not sure that I could get a much better video card for less then $150 or $200.

If you are still running an nVidia 4200 I'm POSITIVE you could double or triple your performance for about $100-$125.

Pop out to newegg and filter to the 100-200 dollar cards. You can get an nVidia AGP 6600 for $102.99 (for instance).

There are nvidia 7 series cards for < 150 now too if you are go pci-x


Don't your non-3d games look all blown up and pixilated on that new LCD??

old non 3d games look fine on my dell 2005fpw.

 

[Fike]

Perhaps I could make some improvements, but even when I look at screen grabs from the new games, the whole bunches of infinitely little polygons with repeating textures always looks as bad as any of the old 2d graphics

I think I will check out some of the vid cards. It would be pretty cool if someone would do something like creating a collection of video screen grabs with various DX versions and features enabled and disabled across various generations of vid cards. It would help to make the differences more obvious. I know that they other major variable is frame rate, but I think once you get past 30 FPS it becomes playable and once you get past 50 or so, you are golden, so that is easy to compare (you can argue the specific number here, but my point is that it is easy to compare with FPS). Comparing actual image quality is another topic all together.

fike

 

[Noema]

To be honest, I could never go back to 2D, even though I'm an old timer who has been gaming since the days of the ole' Atari 2600. Although I'm a big fan of involved and innovative gameplay proposals, graphics are also a big selling point for me, and I like to be amazed by the latest in graphics technology. Take Oblivion for instance. I think it's a deep and huge game, but the graphics are a big chunk of the package. As much as I like Oblivion's gameplay, I don't think I'd have been nearly as excited about it had it not had such mind blowing visuals.

 

[Smilin]

well, good luck to you both.


I personally think you are blind



comparing graphics with AOE II to AOE III?
graphics of Diablo II to Titan Quest?
Warcraft II to Warcraft III????


Blind.

anywho. it's your stuff. enjoy and have a great weekend!

 

[50cent1228]

outdated!

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Fike
Every few months I check out what is new in strategy games...usually I look at medieval battlefield and castle games or something fantasy. I liked the old warcraft games too.

These days, it seems that if your game doesn't have a 3-d rendering engine of some sort, you will sell not games. Everything uses them. I honestly don't like the effect. I have a decent computer and most of the games are sluggish. They only look good when you have everyting turned way up, and that requires a honkin' machine to perform well. I don't upgrade my video card every 6 months.

My favorite games....old simcity, Age of Empires II, Stronghold I, Age of Magic, Age of Kings. I guess I am just an antiquated relic, but I am not sold that 3-d is all that great in games.

Am I crazy, old, outdated,? What?

no, you're not.

Some games make a lot of sense in "overview/from above" perspective, eg. i like RPGs with that kind of view, like Spellforce 2, Baldur's Gate etc., some old school games.

Although...pure 2D really doent do it for me anymore...and for a shooter "first person" perspective makes a lot of sense...or "tombraider/behind person" perspective i like too. I had similiar discussions with people whio hates EVERYTHING besides "first person" few, but i dont agree with them.



And for shooters

 

[Maximilian]

2D is still good, just depends on what game. C&C is fantastic still, and so is starcraft. The only 3d rts ive liked has been generals, the gameplay was the only good thing about it though. A good chunk of the 3d rts games ive played have also left me wanting to zoom out just a little more, but i cant. Its BS.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Originally posted by: Fike
Every few months I check out what is new in strategy games...usually I look at medieval battlefield and castle games or something fantasy. I liked the old warcraft games too.

These days, it seems that if your game doesn't have a 3-d rendering engine of some sort, you will sell not games. Everything uses them. I honestly don't like the effect. I have a decent computer and most of the games are sluggish. They only look good when you have everyting turned way up, and that requires a honkin' machine to perform well. I don't upgrade my video card every 6 months.

My favorite games....old simcity, Age of Empires II, Stronghold I, Age of Magic, Age of Kings. I guess I am just an antiquated relic, but I am not sold that 3-d is all that great in games.

Am I crazy, old, outdated,? What?

If you think a ti4200 is decent then you are clearly outdated :roll:

 

[Raduque]

I think you made a typo, OP. You meant to say "I don't upgrade my video card every 6 years."

Here

 

[Sc4freak]

3-d game rendering turns me off

Then what turns you on? 2D?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: Sc4freak

3-d game rendering turns me off

Then what turns you on? 2D?

What's wrong with 2D? Baldur's Gate II, Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny, and Super Mario Brothers 3 (SNES version) in the sub-800x600 region are far more beautiful than games like Doom 3 at 1920x1440.

 

[Frodolives]

Yes I agree there are still 2d games worth playing, but I love the potentially immersive factor of 3d. If however a great new strat game was for some reason built in 2d, I wouldn't exclude the possibility.

Speaking of 3d rts however, I'm kind of interested in Maelstrom. http://www.atari.com.au/games/overview.do?id=451

 

[Boztech]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: Sc4freak

3-d game rendering turns me off

Then what turns you on? 2D?

What's wrong with 2D? Baldur's Gate II, Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny, and Super Mario Brothers 3 (SNES version) in the sub-800x600 region are far more beautiful than games like Doom 3 at 1920x1440.

Super Mario in VGA "far more beautiful" than Doom 3 at 1920?

You're off your bloody head, sir.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: Boztech
Super Mario in VGA "far more beautiful" than Doom 3 at 1920?

You're off your bloody head, sir.

Yes. Colorful sprites are far more beautiful than metallic hallways with fancy shadows.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Fike
I don't upgrade my video card every 6 months.

The 4200 came out over 4 years ago, and even 4 years ago that wasn't a top of the line card. Almost 4 years ago I got a 9700 Pro, and even today that will play most stategy games fairly well. New games like Company of Heroes are probably too much for it though, but still that doesn't seem like too bad an upgrade cycle to me.

 

[shortylickens]

If its done properly I dont mind.

Neverwinter Nights didnt suck because it was 3D. It sucked because you couldnt pull the camera way out and fix it.
(Also because you only had one player.)

For games like Age of Mythology its nice. We are finally getting to the point where 3D rendering is fast enough it actually makes the gameplay smoother. Also nice to pan and zoom easily. Same with Dawn of War and Act Of War.

 

[apoppin]

don't agree

or i would still be watching TV in B&W on a 15" screen

frankly i am looking forward to better gfx and eyecandy . . . i'd love to try a holodeck simulation

there will always be crap games . . . there were crap video games in the 70s, 80's and 90's . . . and hopefully there will always be great games --with ever improving gfx

try Darwinia . . . very retro

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
What's wrong with 2D? Baldur's Gate II, Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny, and Super Mario Brothers 3 (SNES version) in the sub-800x600 region are far more beautiful than games like Doom 3 at 1920x1440.

I think you're on to something! All this time, I've been upgrading my computer and graphics card. What I should have been spending my money on is other "upgrades"!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-quinuclidinyl_benzilate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin

 

[Atheus]

Nothing wrong with 2D, but if you want to game in 3D you need a better graphics card.

Originally posted by: Fike
Perhaps I could make some improvements, but even when I look at screen grabs from the new games, the whole bunches of infinitely little polygons with repeating textures always looks as bad as any of the old 2d graphics

Are the poygons

really

that obvious?

 

[Homerboy]

that obvious?

game?

 

[Thraxen]

I like both 2D and 3D games. I feel it's a bit sad though that 2D games have been left behind. You can still find 2D gems on consoles and tons on handhelds though. For example, I'd gladly play Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow over 99% of the 3D games any damn day of the week! Fvck games like Far Cry. If it wasn't for the nice graphics it would be another generic FPS with questionable AI.