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3.0 Shader

I

imported_Noob

Senior member
I know this question has probably been asked before. But does 3.0 Pixel Shading make an image quality difference compared to 2.0? In games like Far Cry, Doom 3, etc? I know already it is a more efficient. I have looked this up on reviews and have not quite understood what they are trying to say because most fo ti is very technical. So I'm just looking for a very basic answer.
 
In current games, PS3.0 is only used for speed improvements. And it is only used in Far Cry, and only with a certain patch applied (I'm not sure if this ever became an "official" patch; they put it out and then pulled it). Doom3 and HL2 don't use it at all right now.

Basically, there's nothing you can do in PS3.0 that you can't do (potentially more slowly) with PS2.0. The biggest thing it adds is dynamic branching, which can let you write more efficient code in some circumstances. VS3.0 adds some capabilities that VS2.0 doesn't have -- but I haven't seen anything making extensive use of it yet. Far Cry (when patched) can use geometry instancing, which is technically a VS3.0 feature -- but ATI supports it through PS2.0b.
 
At the moment games only use it for performance.

But go here http://www.unrealtechnology.com

Thats supposed to be based on Shader model 3. It does have a vast improvement in quality as you can add more information into the model. But with all the extra information performance is seriously hampered.
 
Originally posted by: Noob
But does 3.0 Pixel Shading make an image quality difference compared to 2.0?
Click to expand...

No, but it can make things faster to the point that developers might make some game effects only enabled for ps3.0 cards. But as for games out now, Doom3, Far Cry and all the other games don't have any image quality enhancements for ps3.0 users.

Far Cry's HDR is pretty cool only works on Geforce 6 cards; however, that isn't due to ps3.0 but rather the floating point framebuffer. Other than that, your old 9800pro does all the eyecandy you can get in current games.
 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
AoE III will use shader 3.0.
Click to expand...

Yes sir. And that is why I decided to go with a GT over an XL. Also, it hasn't been formally announced, but I think Empire At War will use PS3.0 too. And that just seals the deal.
 
Yeah, SM3.0 (Shader Model 3.0) is currently used only for speed, however, I've read that it may in the future be used for better visual quality, as more complicated shaders can be written with fewer instructions. I have also heard rumors that there *MAY* be a patch for HL2 (the Source engine) that may include a recompiled engine with SM3.0. I don't see it happening, however, as Valve has its head so far up ATI's ass that it would make such a move, pro-NVIDIA, virtually impossible. Still, SM3.0 is one of the selling points that turned me to a 6800GT, as opposed to an X800, along with my loathing of ATI period.
 
Remember there are no games written natively for SM3.0. All there are are add-ons to the code.

What is hardware displacement mapping? Is that VS or PS... im thinking PS.

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Remember there are no games written natively for SM3.0. All there are are add-ons to the code.

What is hardware displacement mapping? Is that VS or PS... im thinking PS.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Um, VS3.0. It has to be; displacement mapping modifies the vertex (geometry) data for an object. However, I have yet to see it actually working in more than a trivial demo on the NV40, and I suspect that with any sort of reasonable complexity, it will be too slow for use on any GF6. At least any *single* GF6.
 
Well there was that special combination of patches and drivers for Far Cry that enabled displacement mapping wasn't there? There was a noticeable performance difference, but from the videos it looked playable.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
In current games, PS3.0 is only used for speed improvements. And it is only used in Far Cry, and only with a certain patch applied (I'm not sure if this ever became an "official" patch; they put it out and then pulled it). Doom3 and HL2 don't use it at all right now.

Basically, there's nothing you can do in PS3.0 that you can't do (potentially more slowly) with PS2.0. The biggest thing it adds is dynamic branching, which can let you write more efficient code in some circumstances. VS3.0 adds some capabilities that VS2.0 doesn't have -- but I haven't seen anything making extensive use of it yet. Far Cry (when patched) can use geometry instancing, which is technically a VS3.0 feature -- but ATI supports it through PS2.0b.
Click to expand...

The PS3 path for Far Cry is automatically enabled on 6800 series cards with the 1.3 patch (1.2 was the pulled patch).
 
Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Originally posted by: Matthias99
In current games, PS3.0 is only used for speed improvements. And it is only used in Far Cry, and only with a certain patch applied (I'm not sure if this ever became an "official" patch; they put it out and then pulled it). Doom3 and HL2 don't use it at all right now.

Basically, there's nothing you can do in PS3.0 that you can't do (potentially more slowly) with PS2.0. The biggest thing it adds is dynamic branching, which can let you write more efficient code in some circumstances. VS3.0 adds some capabilities that VS2.0 doesn't have -- but I haven't seen anything making extensive use of it yet. Far Cry (when patched) can use geometry instancing, which is technically a VS3.0 feature -- but ATI supports it through PS2.0b.
Click to expand...

The PS3 path for Far Cry is automatically enabled on 6800 series cards with the 1.3 patch (1.2 was the pulled patch).
Click to expand...

True... but PS3.0 doesn't include geometry instancing or displacement mapping...
 
Originally posted by: Noob
But does 3.0 Pixel Shading make an image quality difference compared to 2.0? In games like Far Cry, Doom 3, etc?
Click to expand...
No. They?re the same FP (floating point) shaders based on the SM2.0 spec.
3.0 just adds longer shaders to the spec. just like ATI?s SM2.0b does.
 
Yes, the first one is the one with HDR... basically what I see is that light areas are brighter and dark areas are darker... makes for a more realistic feel... the 2nd shot looks very washed out and overbright compared to the first. (and no, gamma is not cranked in game)

Some of the bright areas are a bit too bright... and the overall brightness DOES adjust when you move from dark to light areas just like your eyes do. The only problem is when you move into a dark area and look back at a bright area, it doesn't adjust... you have to move back into a specified "zone" for the levels to adjust.
 
I love farcry with HDR. Hove a look at some screenshots I posted in another forums: Link

They are from my 6800GT with HDR set to 7.
 
I wish they would allow the intensity to be changed... sometimes it's just too much... maybe a 1.4 patch will do it...

Displacement Mapping can't be enabled anymore can it? I read on some forums that now that the Far Cry SDK is out, people are working on their own shaders to add Displacement Mapping.
 
speaking of FarCry, I seemed to have lost all my saves...Could someone be kind enough to email them to me please??? I am on the boat level. Please PM me for my email.
 
Originally posted by: slash196
Silly me, I thought the second one looked better...
Click to expand...

What did you like better about it?
I know some people like to have a nice bright screen where they can see into all the shadows... I don't... not being able to see in shadows is a step towards realism. 😉
 
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