2nd Whistleblower May Come Forward On Trump's Ukraine Call

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,615
33,334
136
That’s because Democrats want to retain control of the proceedings. With Nixon it was the same thing. Yes, Democrats could pass articles on impeachment on Trump today. Since the whole process is political though they are using their powers to turn the public more and more in favor of impeachment before they pass those articles. Since it’s very unlikely the Senate will convict you want to do 2 things:

1) make the public aware of just how much of a criminal Trump is. That way even if he isn’t removed you damage him for the election.

2) make senate Republicans defend a criminal. The worse Trump looks, the worse the senate looks for protecting him. That helps Democrats flip the Senate.



I mean you have to admit they have never exactly been short of things to impeach Trump on. No search was needed, he commits lots of his crimes right out in the open.



Yes, it’s entirely political and since Congress’s internal processes can’t be intruded on by any other branch they can basically do what they want.

It will be interesting to see what Republicans do when/if impeachment articles are handed to them. I have no idea if they will conduct a trial or just throw them in the trash.
MoscowMitch has said repeatedly now that if the House votes for impeachment the Senate would be forced to hold a trial. Then again, the turtle has flip-flopped in the past so I guess we can take that with a grain of salt.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,467
6,557
136
That’s because Democrats want to retain control of the proceedings. With Nixon it was the same thing. Yes, Democrats could pass articles on impeachment on Trump today. Since the whole process is political though they are using their powers to turn the public more and more in favor of impeachment before they pass those articles. Since it’s very unlikely the Senate will convict you want to do 2 things:

1) make the public aware of just how much of a criminal Trump is. That way even if he isn’t removed you damage him for the election.

2) make senate Republicans defend a criminal. The worse Trump looks, the worse the senate looks for protecting him. That helps Democrats flip the Senate.



I mean you have to admit they have never exactly been short of things to impeach Trump on. No search was needed, he commits lots of his crimes right out in the open.



Yes, it’s entirely political and since Congress’s internal processes can’t be intruded on by any other branch they can basically do what they want.

It will be interesting to see what Republicans do when/if impeachment articles are handed to them. I have no idea if they will conduct a trial or just throw them in the trash.
What the senate will do really is the central point of the entire process, and that's going to come down to what the voters back home will think. The question really becomes "how red is my state". Who is going to be willing to cross that line and become both a hero and a traitor? It makes me think that perhaps having senators elected wasn't the best idea after all.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,940
6,796
126
What the senate will do really is the central point of the entire process, and that's going to come down to what the voters back home will think. The question really becomes "how red is my state". Who is going to be willing to cross that line and become both a hero and a traitor? It makes me think that perhaps having senators elected wasn't the best idea after all.
There will be no 'what the voters think'. The day of thinking voters has past, due to a massive effort at brainwashing the American public by conservatives that has been finally completed. What we have today is 40% of the voting population with straws in their noses snorting up Fox News and falling into a coma. To resurrect American Democracy from its grave today will require the destruction of conservative propaganda machines. The instant broadcast of world uncertainties and terror has destroyed the capacity of people to think rationally. Everywhere we are open to manipulation by fear and the average Joe Blow is too untrained and to unsophisticated to see it. The right is narcotically addicted to fear and it has changed the wiring of their brains. Madness reigns. The right is so convinced the left is dangerous they are going to destroy us. We are what we project and they see monsters. In my opinion, you need to wake up and get a grip. Freedom is at stake. The machine cares nothing for who it grinds under.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,246
55,794
136
What the senate will do really is the central point of the entire process, and that's going to come down to what the voters back home will think. The question really becomes "how red is my state". Who is going to be willing to cross that line and become both a hero and a traitor? It makes me think that perhaps having senators elected wasn't the best idea after all.

Electing the senate is fine, we are a democracy after all and elected senators did away with our last criminal president.

The problem is that this system or any other doesn’t work when people value their party or some temporary victory more than the system itself. The Republican Party is that way today.

If our society and government were functioning well he never would have been elected to begin with and if he was he would have been removed a long time ago when he publicly stated he fired the director of the FBI for investigating his criminal associates. Yet, here we are.

You guys have to fix your party, first and foremost. Country first.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,467
6,557
136
Electing the senate is fine, we are a democracy after all and elected senators did away with our last criminal president.

The problem is that this system or any other doesn’t work when people value their party or some temporary victory more than the system itself. The Republican Party is that way today.

If our society and government were functioning well he never would have been elected to begin with and if he was he would have been removed a long time ago when he publicly stated he fired the director of the FBI for investigating his criminal associates. Yet, here we are.

You guys have to fix your party, first and foremost. Country first.
That's back on the political bandwagon. Trump was elected by the rules, that you disagree with the outcome of the election is a political issue.

As for your last statement, I don't have a party. I lean republican/libertarian, but only because I don't believe that we can take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. I enjoy dreams, but I live in a hard reality where my every action has consequences and my success or failure is entirely of my own making.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
That's back on the political bandwagon. Trump was elected by the rules, that you disagree with the outcome of the election is a political issue.

As for your last statement, I don't have a party. I lean republican/libertarian, but only because I don't believe that we can take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. I enjoy dreams, but I live in a hard reality where my every action has consequences and my success or failure is entirely of my own making.

We are all subject to economic forces beyond our control.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,940
6,796
126
That's a statement I will never agree with, it's an idea that will never end well.
I've already done it and I'm doing rather well. I can even watch Fox News for 5 minutes without dying of laughter. And have you ever watched the the emotional level at which the ads are aimed? The masters of manipulation sure know the intellectual rigor of their audience. Without Fox News and the White Supremacy machine, the country will get better. Think of them as cancer. You want to let that grow in your body. You do feel profoundly that such voices should be allowed, but just imagine if you knew the truth was the other way round. Then you would want to excise the danger. It's just a matter of what you see and how truthful or truthy it is, no?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,940
6,796
126
We are all subject to economic forces beyond our control.
We have something in common then: You want to make people stand up and take care of themselves and I want them to never be able to be brainwahsed by conservatives. I guess we're a couple of Nannies.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
Well, surprise surprise!
A second blower has emerged.
I would guess this is the guy (or gal) who the original blower got his so-called second hand knowledge from.
Maybe that guy who gave the first hand knowledge, the guy the blower was quoting, maybe the first hand knowledge guy figured WTF, I'd might as well come clean rather than have the blower with the second hand knowledge take all the heat for what I told him from first hand.

But at any point, Donald Trump will squirm his way out of this one too. He always does.
And notice the new tactic that Trump is now using....
When the evidence is clear and indisputable, Donald just gets more crazy. Says crazier and crazier stuff.
So in the end you don't know if you should call him a criminal, or call him a nut case?
Rudy pulls this same tactic as well.
This is not some unplanned fluke, this is well planned by Rudy and by Donald.
It's as if they know they can drive the media and the democrats insane with spewing nonsense after nonsense, and in the end it will all go away.
This appears as a well orchestrated tactic where they act with the mentality of a child, then maybe like with the parent the child can get away with murder. Mom and dad will roll their eyes and say, THERE GOES OUR SILLY KID. OH WELL....

You can't argue with Donald Trump, nor with Rudy Giuliani, or with anyone from Fox News.
And as Barney Frank reminded us way back when in similar situation.....
Barney Frank way back when <---click the damn link :p
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,525
12,634
136
I here hear the scurrying of little tiny feet. Where's the ocean.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,541
146
That's a statement I will never agree with, it's an idea that will never end well.

Well, Fox News is antithetical to a democratic nation, and is the umbrella by which we got to this point. It absolutely has to go, because it will only breed more Trumps and the type of sociopaths that support this type of vile, immoral criminality.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,541
146
That's back on the political bandwagon. Trump was elected by the rules, that you disagree with the outcome of the election is a political issue.

As for your last statement, I don't have a party. I lean republican/libertarian, but only because I don't believe that we can take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. I enjoy dreams, but I live in a hard reality where my every action has consequences and my success or failure is entirely of my own making.

This is a complete fantasy, though. You enjoy the same state and federal benefits available to small businesses that any other business owner does. This is not saying that you don't work hard or anything, it simply acknowledges the actual reality that everyone else lives in.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,284
31,323
136
This is a complete fantasy, though. You enjoy the same state and federal benefits available to small businesses that any other business owner does. This is not saying that you don't work hard or anything, it simply acknowledges the actual reality that everyone else lives in.
Bullshit, his ability to get to work on a publicly financed road was based solely on his efforts. I assume he used the car he built himself, from parts he personally made. The fact that he has electricity, water, gas at his house is based only on his own efforts. Greenman has created his own world with his bare hands.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
This is a complete fantasy, though. You enjoy the same state and federal benefits available to small businesses that any other business owner does. This is not saying that you don't work hard or anything, it simply acknowledges the actual reality that everyone else lives in.
Look, if he convinces himself that all his successes and failures are of his own, then it is far easier for him to blame others for their failures. He may be wrong on both accounts, but at least his emotions are justified (to himself).
 
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GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,801
581
126
You made me actually do my own homework, I hope you're happy.
The entire process is a heck of a lot less formal than I would have thought. The assumption appears to be that congress and the senate will act with proper decorum and deliberation. That's certainly out the window.
It's also interesting that Nancy decided to call it an impeachment inquiry, rather than simply impeaching Trump. The democrats have been calling for impeachment for some time, they just needed to find a crime to justify the verdict. I was also surprised to learn the senate republicans can kill the entire process the day it's handed to them with a floor vote and simple majority.
I had (foolishly, it appears) assumed that there was more law and less posturing involved in the process. From what I've been reading, it's almost entirely political and subject to whatever whimsey either side wants to toss in the mix.
This article is a good read on a lot off this. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/10/trump-johnson-impeachment-edmund-ross/

Most relevant portion:
Stevens, a brilliant parliamentarian and Congress’ most ardent advocate for racial equality, cut through all of the agonizing with a simple answer: An impeachable offense is whatever the hell a majority of the House and two thirds of the Senate wants it to be.


“I do not hold that it is necessary to prove a crime as an indictable offense, or any act malum in se,” he said. In fact, Democrats who lamented that impeachment was being used as a political process were correct. It was! “I agree with the distinguished gentlemen from Pennsylvania, on the other side of the House, who holds this to be a purely political proceeding. It is intended as a remedy for malfeasance in office and to prevent continuance thereof.”

Assuming that R's aren't going to vote to impeach, the impeachment inquiry building a strong case prior to sending to the senate and the senate immediately voting not to impeach is likely the best political outcome. At that point you have ammo to harp on those senators for not respecting process, rule of law, moral compass, etc etc.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,884
33,518
136
That's back on the political bandwagon. Trump was elected by the rules, that you disagree with the outcome of the election is a political issue.

As for your last statement, I don't have a party. I lean republican/libertarian, but only because I don't believe that we can take care of people that refuse to take care of themselves. I enjoy dreams, but I live in a hard reality where my every action has consequences and my success or failure is entirely of my own making.
To use a metaphor, Trump won a fight by the rules using 6 oz gloves when his opponent used 10 oz. Hint, Russia supplied the gloves.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,246
55,794
136
Wonder if this one will have something other than 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge?

Well they are reported to have firsthand knowledge but honestly why does that even matter? After all, the original whistleblower was proven correct by documents the White House itself released.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Well they are reported to have firsthand knowledge but honestly why does that even matter? After all, the original whistleblower was proven correct by documents the White House itself released.

The original complaint was lacking quite a bit of information.

As far as whisleblowers are concerned, I suggest everyone read THIS article by Rolling Stone. It makes you remember Trump hasnt even come close to "retaliation" as previous administrations.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
16,123
8,711
136
Here we go again.
One of those words Trump can use to claim FAKE NEWS.
2nd Whistleblower May Come Forward On Trump's Ukraine Call

I don't want MAY or POSSIBLY or COULD HAVE.
This is what I want.....

Right To F-ing Jail


During those union contract negotiations I was involved with, management kept inserting the "may" word in tentative language discussions in order to disqualify or make arguable everything it was contextually associated with.

Of which we would replace with the word "will" to make the language unambiguous in its intent. Sure, the word "may" can work for either side's advantage when bargaining, or even to both side's advantage in some instances. However, that word is used more times than not by management when they try to appear to agree to something without actually agreeing at all.

It's a key word that gets easily overlooked in it's actual meaning, especially when used suggestively as a firm commitment to terms being negotiated when it's not.

Jus' say'in.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,884
33,518
136
The original complaint was lacking quite a bit of information.

As far as whisleblowers are concerned, I suggest everyone read THIS article by Rolling Stone. It makes you remember Trump hasnt even come close to "retaliation" as previous administrations.
What information did the original complaint lack? I don't think the original complaint was ever intended to cover all offenses.

A better question, what substantive fact did the original complaint get wrong? I don't mean something like 7 vs 6 conversations.
 
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