2nd FUUUUUU brake-stomping e-break-yanking near miss in 2 days

[JulesMaximus]

Maybe, but I doubt it adds much braking effect at all.

Still, it's a bad idea to be doing it.

You have more important things to worry about in such a situation.

It probably stems from years of referring to it as an "emergency" brake rather than a parking brake.

I used to work in the rental car industry. I know for a fact that you can lock up the rear wheels on a Toyota Corolla just by yanking on the parking brake. I've done it many times. 😉

 

[JCH13]

I wonder what the effects of the park brake are on the abs and other systems that the abs is part of?

I wonder if the separate park brake has a different effect vs a park brake that uses the regular brakes?

Is it possible that the park brake disables the abs?

The ABS system limits hydraulic pressure to the caliper/drum piston. The hand brake is a cable driven system that bypasses the ABS controller/pump. It will very much override the ABS system.

Also, I know this because ripping the ebrake on a snowy road/parking lot and going all slippy-sideways is hella fun.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The ABS system limits hydraulic pressure to the caliper/drum piston. The hand brake is a cable driven system that bypasses the ABS controller/pump. It will very much override the ABS system.

Also, I know this because ripping the ebrake on a snowy road/parking lot and going all slippy-sideways is hella fun.

It works on dry pavement too if your parking brake is adjusted correctly.

 

[JCH13]

It works on dry pavement too if your parking brake is adjusted correctly.

I know it does, but on snow I can do it at 10mph and not flat-spot my tires :thumbsup:

 

[LTC8K6]

The ABS system limits hydraulic pressure to the caliper/drum piston. The hand brake is a cable driven system that bypasses the ABS controller/pump. It will very much override the ABS system.

Also, I know this because ripping the ebrake on a snowy road/parking lot and going all slippy-sideways is hella fun.

Yes, that's fun and you can try Rockford's famous park brake 180 too.

Yes, we know how the abs works normally, but how does the rest of the system react to the park brake and does it react differently with the different park brake types?

On the locked wheels, does the abs just quit trying?

What about those cars with the automatic park brake release? What do they do if you apply the park brake while moving?

Not that it matters much, since I'm not going to be doing it.

 

[Paperlantern]

I wonder what the effects of the park brake are on the abs and other systems that the abs is part of?

I wonder if the separate park brake has a different effect vs a park brake that uses the regular brakes?

Is it possible that the park brake disables the abs?

Typically ABS effects the front braking system only, though in newer cars this isnt the case, however in systems where rear brakes are involved in the ABS system, i would think that pulling the e brake would have no effect, or just disable the rear portion. However this would only be a guess.

You're following too close. Slow down.

In the OP's defense, this post is asinine, the car cut him off, he was not following the car, it jumped in front of him.

Though I do agree with the general consensus of the thread in that pulling the e brake in a emergency braking situation can only hurt you, not help you. I agree with the poster saying to try and break that habit. The brake pedal, if applied in time in most situations, with a properly inflated set of tires bearing proper tread depth, should stop the car relatively quickly. If your tires and braking system were properly maintained, you would not have needed to pull the brake in these same situations, and honestly, im not sure doing so in your situations helped you at all.

 

[JCH13]

Yes, that's fun and you can try Rockford's famous park brake 180 too.

Yes, we know how the abs works normally, but how does the rest of the system react to the park brake and does it react differently with the different park brake types?

On the locked wheels, does the abs just quit trying?

What about those cars with the automatic park brake release? What do they do if you apply the park brake while moving?

Not that it matters much, since I'm not going to be doing it.

The ABS should still work on the non-locked wheels, it can still effect changes in the braking pressure there. The ABS system won't ever "quit" it will limit braking force to the locked wheels as much as it can, but because it's bypassed it won't matter for those wheels. This is assuming, of course, a 4 wheel independent ABS system.

Never had a car with an automatically releasing parking brake. I imagine it wouldn't work too well. It might stay engaged if you step on the pedal/continue to pull on the lever.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Typically ABS effects the front braking system only

Oh sweet jesus. What is this, "National people who don't know shit about cars posting in car forums day"?

I can't think of even a single automotive ABS system that is front wheels only. Almost every ABS system works on all four wheels and even the few very early ABS systems that only worked on two wheels acted on the REAR wheels because that prevents people from spinning out which is a much larger danger than just locking the front wheels.

ZV

 

[DominionSeraph]

Props to Ford for putting nice strong stock brakes on the mustang.

If you're being out-braked by a SUV...

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

The parking breaks in cars are nearly useless, I call them parking breaks because that's what they are, they are completely useless in an emergency.

All of the time they fail even to keep the car from moving when they are fully engaged and the engine does not even require much power to overcome the petty resistance offered by the parking break.

 

[dawp]

You do realize that the hand brake acts on the regular brake pads, right? Unless you've got an air bubble or a leak in the rear hydraulic lines you're not going to improve your braking capabilities.

not on my car it isn't. 4 wheel disc brakes and the hand brake is a shoe inside the rear disc.

on cars with read drums, ya it is.

 

[exdeath]

You need more power so people can't cut you off and have their way with you.

 

[Howard]

this thread

wow

 

[jagec]

Oh sweet jesus. What is this, "National people who don't know shit about cars posting in car forums day"?

I can't think of even a single automotive ABS system that is front wheels only. Almost every ABS system works on all four wheels and even the few very early ABS systems that only worked on two wheels acted on the REAR wheels because that prevents people from spinning out which is a much larger danger than just locking the front wheels.

ZV

Oh yeah? Well, what if you're driving a car with rear-wheel ABS in REVERSE?

What then, smart guy?

 

[LTC8K6]

Oh yeah? Well, what if you're driving a car with rear-wheel ABS in REVERSE?

What then, smart guy?

It's rear-wheel ABS, so it automatically switches to the new rear wheels.

 

[LTC8K6]

not on my car it isn't. 4 wheel disc brakes and the hand brake is a shoe inside the rear disc.

Yeah, quite a few vehicles are that way.

 

[LTC8K6]

The parking breaks in cars are nearly useless, I call them parking breaks because that's what they are, they are completely useless in an emergency.

All of the time they fail even to keep the car from moving when they are fully engaged and the engine does not even require much power to overcome the petty resistance offered by the parking break.

You are supposed to have the park brake adjusted from time to time.

 

[Gillbot]

Oh sweet jesus. What is this, "National people who don't know shit about cars posting in car forums day"?

I can't think of even a single automotive ABS system that is front wheels only. Almost every ABS system works on all four wheels and even the few very early ABS systems that only worked on two wheels acted on the REAR wheels because that prevents people from spinning out which is a much larger danger than just locking the front wheels.

ZV

This made me lol pretty hard, and now everyone in the office is looking at me funny..... Well, funnier than they normally do anyway. :thumbsup:

 

[JTsyo]

I'm glad BLIS is becoming more common now. Some really need it. I know I once almost merged into a motorcycle, my blind side is small enough that a car doesn't fit but a bike does.

 

[kornphlake]

Oh sweet jesus. What is this, "National people who don't know shit about cars posting in car forums day"?

I can't think of even a single automotive ABS system that is front wheels only. Almost every ABS system works on all four wheels and even the few very early ABS systems that only worked on two wheels acted on the REAR wheels because that prevents people from spinning out which is a much larger danger than just locking the front wheels.

ZV

I'm glad I do my own break work because I seem to be the only person on this planet who actually understands how braking systems work.

My late 90's vintage chevy van has ABS on the front only. My understanding is that many GM trucks had ABS in the front only up until the time disc brakes became standard in the rear. ABS in the rear only makes no sense, think about it, how are you going to steer out of a skid if the front wheels are locked up?

 

[JCH13]

I'm glad I do my own break work because I seem to be the only person on this planet who actually understands how braking systems work.

My late 90's vintage chevy van has ABS on the front only. My understanding is that many GM trucks had ABS in the front only up until the time disc brakes became standard in the rear. ABS in the rear only makes no sense, think about it, how are you going to steer out of a skid if the front wheels are locked up?

ABS on the rear brakes only makes perfect sense. Most vehicles have the best crash structures in the front. In the 90s, if a vehicle had them, airbags generally only protected the occupants from frontal crashes. Seat belts work best in frontal crashes. So if you're going to put ABS on a vehicle, it makes sense that it would help all of the other safety equipment work better. Also, as with most cars, understeer is easier for the average drive to deal with. Keeping the rear stable does all of this.

If the rears locked up the vehicle could spin, dramatically increasing the chances of flipping, which is really bad. Also, if your vehicle hits something sideways there is a much smaller crumple zone (if any) and a higher chance of a foreign object intruding into the cabin. Not to mention that vehicle occupants aren't as well restrained in the sideways direction. It's bad news.

Besides all this, the rear axle generates considerably less braking force than the front, making it the most likely to lock up the tires. It makes perfect sense to 'help' the axle that needs it the most.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I'm glad I do my own break work because I seem to be the only person on this planet who actually understands how braking systems work.

My late 90's vintage chevy van has ABS on the front only. My understanding is that many GM trucks had ABS in the front only up until the time disc brakes became standard in the rear. ABS in the rear only makes no sense, think about it, how are you going to steer out of a skid if the front wheels are locked up?

With rear-only ABS you never enter the goddam skid in the first place because THE REAR WHEELS DON'T LOCK. This is why Ford made rear-only ABS standard on all F-series pickups starting in 1987. If the rear wheels don't lock, you can't enter a skid.

And 4-wheel ABS was introduced as standard on the Chevy Van in 1993. So your "late '90s" van has 4-wheel ABS, not front-only.

Really you're only digging yourself in deeper here.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Typically ABS effects the front braking system only, though in newer cars this isnt the case, however in systems where rear brakes are involved in the ABS system, i would think that pulling the e brake would have no effect, or just disable the rear portion. However this would only be a guess.



In the OP's defense, this post is asinine, the car cut him off, he was not following the car, it jumped in front of him.

Though I do agree with the general consensus of the thread in that pulling the e brake in a emergency braking situation can only hurt you, not help you. I agree with the poster saying to try and break that habit. The brake pedal, if applied in time in most situations, with a properly inflated set of tires bearing proper tread depth, should stop the car relatively quickly. If your tires and braking system were properly maintained, you would not have needed to pull the brake in these same situations, and honestly, im not sure doing so in your situations helped you at all.

A few weeks ago I was driving home from work. I was doing around 70-75mph on the freeway coming up on my exit, probably 1/2 mile away, when I see this car come flying across from the carpool lanes, she was crossing all lanes at speed and heading for my left front fender. I had only a split second to get hard on the brakes (hehe, I said hardon) to avoid a collision. I also hit the horn to let her know I was there. I was able to avoid getting hit because I actually saw this coming and was able to react in time. I'm just glad I wasn't on my motorcycle...

So, yeah, this could have happened to the OP and not been his fault at all. However, yanking the parking brake never entered into my thought process, nor should it. That's just idiotic. You should NEVER use the parking brake during emergency braking.

 

[Howard]

With rear-only ABS you never enter the goddam skid in the first place because THE REAR WHEELS DON'T LOCK. This is why Ford made rear-only ABS standard on all F-series pickups starting in 1987. If the rear wheels don't lock, you can't enter a skid.

And 4-wheel ABS was introduced as standard on the Chevy Van in 1993. So your "late '90s" van has 4-wheel ABS, not front-only.

Really you're only digging yourself in deeper here.

ZV

You sure can understeer though. Does that count as skidding?

 

[Zenmervolt]

You sure can understeer though. Does that count as skidding?

Not usually, no. A "skid" in standard parlance is when the rear loses traction and starts to come around with the car traveling slightly sideways while rotating about the center of mass. The purpose of steering into a skid is to put a force on the front of the vehicle in the same lateral direction as the force on the sliding rear wheels in the hope that you can bring the skid into a controllable drift and then pull out of it before the rear of the vehicle overtakes the front and you're doing pirouettes down the freeway.

And I'm suddenly aware that your response was joking. Oops. Still, not erasing the explanation because there may be someone who can find it useful. 😀

ZV