2D Video Quality Champ - ATI or nVidia?

[cheez]

Over a DVI connection, shouldn't 2d output be identical?

No apparently they are not the same. I use DVI-D running my professional grade 50" plasma displays. With same plasma screen with same connection type and same tweaking and same software I noticed the difference in PQ.

Probably. The HD6xxx series can apparently score at LEAST 204: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850-barts,2776-21.html

Compare this to the TPU results: HD5870 out of the box 117, defaults 177, optimized 197. GTX out of the box 101, defaults 163, optimized 180. www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HQV/HQV_2.0/8.html

The GTX460 is apparently on par with a GTX480 in image quality: http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/evga-gtx-460-768mb-superclocked-review/14/ (sounds like they were using newer drivers that put the default IQ of the GTX460 closer to its maximum)

Also see: 148 (GT 430) and 189 (HD5570) in the anandtech comparison I linked to before: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3973/nvidias-geforce-gt-430/4 But I think those scores were unoptimized so they could be higher with some tweaking.

So the pecking order is:

204 (6870 somewhat optimized; sounds like Tom's didn't have a chance to play with settings to determine maximum HQV 2.0 score)
197 (5870 optimized)
193 (5830 probably nearly optimized with new drivers)
189 (5570 default)
180 (GTX480 optimized)
177 (GTX460 nearly optimized with new drivers)
148 (GT 430 default)

If I were you and planned to watch video more than play games on an HTPC, I would get a HD6850 or HD5750/5770 (depending on how much gaming power you need) and call it a day. In gaming, the HD6850 is on par with a GTX460-1GB, but the primary use of a HTPC card is for video playback, and HD6870/50 apparently excels at video playback, with HD5xxx close behind (get at least a 5570 though because any lower and HQV scores start dropping and cheese slice tests get worse), and GTX460 behind both of them. (I am assuming a GTX460 can't do any better than an optimized GTX480's score of 180.)

Thank you for more links! That was very helpful. Looks like I got the info I needed. I'm gonna try to go with the highest line possible based on my budget (max of $400~ $450), this is also to help keep up-to-date with 3D performance as I'm not planning to upgrade video till another 4 years or so. My X1950XTX is around 4 years old now, been doing fantastic job. I use it for video playback 80% of time and 20% for gaming. I think I'm gonna try to pick up an HD6870.

The voodoo3 and 5 also had excellent output quality, although not quite as good as Matrox.

Or it may just be that 3dfx's reference rasterizer looked so damn good which has nothing to do with the DAC output quality.

In any event, you never want an integrated DAC, but fortunately, digital has taken over, so they can just put the transmitter in the processing chip.

Yo I have been through the good'ol voodoo and TNT days and I remember the voodoo didn't do good job in 2D. Yes, Matrox was good back then.

 

[cheez]

What model is better in terms of materials and build quality? I trust "Built By ATi" but I don't see them anymore... Is Sapphire a good choice? How about HIS or XFX? Sounds fancy and funky but... that's just my impression. Anyone know?

 

[blastingcap]

What model is better in terms of materials and build quality? I trust "Built By ATi" but I don't see them anymore... Is Sapphire a good choice? How about HIS or XFX? Sounds fancy and funky but... that's just my impression. Anyone know?

6870 had a higher HQV than 5870. And lower power draw. But lower gaming performance. But it's for a HTPC so video quality + lower power are probably more important.

6850 is probably going to have the same HQV as the 6870 and once both are overclocked, the 6850 is a better bang-for-buck than 6870. (The 6850 oc's well, the 6870 doesn't oc well, and memory is what matters more for oc'ing these particular cards anyway, not cores; it's a quirk of the HD6850/70 architectures). So I'd recommend one of those instead of a 6870, unless you don't like overclocking. NOTE: There are no reference 6850s for sale in North America. Among the best non-reference ones are ASUS DirectCU, Sapphire, XFX, and MSI. Avoid HIS since they have a weak cooling solution. Powercolors might not be able to overvolt via software so that might be a negative to you. I have no idea about Gigabyte or other brands.

I don't know about 6870s but they should all be reference at this point. I.e., they should all look like the cards on this page with a blower fan on one end and a box-like shroud: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...hd6870&x=0&y=0

They will all have the same build quality since they are all made by ATI and shipped to AIBs to resell to consumers. Later on the AIBs will be allowed to make customized versions of HD6870s that may have better cooling, factory overclock, etc.

If you are set on a 6870, then given the equal build qualities among all 6870s right now, I'd go for the best warranty available so long as the premium isn't too high. XFX has a transferable lifetime warranty but tends to charge a hefty premium for it. Visiontek has a non-transferable lifetime warranty last time I checked.

MWave, Amazon, Tigerdirect, etc. may have better prices than Newegg, especially in a week during the big sales weekend.

 

[tweakboy]

LOL Matrox no but honestly 2D hasn't changed in the past 13 years ,,,you give the title to no one. I mean a Voodoo 2 with a Millienium is just as nice as right now having a 580 or 480 or 6850 or x800 or 6800GT and lower. Never changed 2D chip is designed by a third party and vendors slap it on. It has not advanced like I said in many years. 3D GPU has changed a ton over the years and now with vista or 7 you have the Aero interface which uses the GPU.

I can tell you I powned my x800 xt pe for over 3 years and the 2D on it compared to 8800 GT is same thing, I see no difference.... As long as I can get 2304res Im set been using that res and mon for over 10 years.

5950 ultra was same, All were same. But now that the new OSes have caught up with GPU technology now you have the GPU running your OS like Aero interface .. If you open fraps and watch video or look at some pictures youll see the GPU is being used. 2D its pointless to talk about now adays unless someone wants 2D only and wants to save money and asks what card he or her should get. For 2D only people,, a 9500 GT or less will do fine.. As long as you have 2 ports in the back. and DVI , thx gg and gl

 

[cheez]

blastingcap, thanks for the awesome info. I'll take all your advice except for Visiontek as I had bad experience with them. They require me to pay for their shipping for sending me a replacement.. what the heck is that? I have never had that experience from other vendors before... Time to go shopping. It's a weekend and hope BestBuy or Fry's got something I want... I will let you guys know when I get the goodie.

 

[Gloomy]

LOL Matrox no but honestly 2D hasn't changed in the past 13 years ,,,you give the title to no one. I mean a Voodoo 2 with a Millienium is just as nice as right now having a 580 or 480 or 6850 or x800 or 6800GT and lower. Never changed 2D chip is designed by a third party and vendors slap it on. It has not advanced like I said in many years. 3D GPU has changed a ton over the years and now with vista or 7 you have the Aero interface which uses the GPU.l

No. ATI is better than Nvidia in this regard.

 

[cheez]

Got the ATi XFX HD6870 at Fry's! for $279.99.

Checking out the card now...

Btw, this card is faster than my ATi x1950XTX in games, right?

 

[Troll Trolling]

Got the ATi XFX HD6870 at Fry's! for $279.99.

Checking out the card now...

Btw, this card is faster than my ATi x1950XTX in games, right?

About 5 to 6x faster, i think.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Over a DVI connection, shouldn't 2d output be identical?

One would think so, but as an example, I built a friend of mine a computer with a 785G chipset, an AMD quad-core. That friend picked up GTA4, and so I installed a Galaxy 9800GT 512MB PCI-E card.

After I installed that, he later complained that his desktop and text was "fuzzy".

I found that strange, since he's using DVI. But according to his subjective opinion, the NV card was much fuzzier than the ATI onboard.

He's not a computer guy either, so it's not like he's ever heard online discussions about ATI versus NV image quality.

I really don't know what to make of his situation. It shouldn't be true, but it is.

 

[Teizo]

One would think so, but as an example, I built a friend of mine a computer with a 785G chipset, an AMD quad-core. That friend picked up GTA4, and so I installed a Galaxy 9800GT 512MB PCI-E card.

After I installed that, he later complained that his desktop and text was "fuzzy".

I found that strange, since he's using DVI. But according to his subjective opinion, the NV card was much fuzzier than the ATI onboard.

He's not a computer guy either, so it's not like he's ever heard online discussions about ATI versus NV image quality.

I really don't know what to make of his situation. It shouldn't be true, but it is.

I have a board with the 785G chipset with onboard HD 4200 (that I used originally before I switched to discrete), and I can say that there is no difference in the two desktop wise, or video wise between that and my 460. He may need to ajust his cleartype settings, and also check to be sure his refresh rate is set appropriately.