2D quality question

[Sunner]

Does anyone have any hands on experience with both a GeForce4 and a Radeon8500 or Matrox card, as well as a good 21" monitor?

The reason Im asking is that my current card(LeadTek GF3 Ti200) just isn't good enough in 2D, it was fine for my decent 19", but since I upgraded to my current 21"(Eizo F931), it isn't good enough anymore.

Now, a R8500 is sorta out of the question, as they are very expensive around here, in fact, I can get a Gainward GF4 Ti4200 for less than 2/3 the price of a R8500 64 MB.

So, if you have a good 21" monitor, and have tried both a GF4(preferably Gainward as they're supposed to have the best 2D among the GeForces), and a R8500 or Matrox card, I'd really appreciate your oppinion about 2D quality differences between these cards.

Oh and as for waiting for Parhelia, etc etc, I might, but that's another discussion for another day.

 

[Mikki]

'The reason Im asking is that my current card(LeadTek GF3 Ti200) just isn't good enough in 2D, it was fine for my decent 19", but since I upgraded to my current 21"(Eizo F931), it isn't good enough anymore.'

I'm curious as to what you mean by not good enough. It doesn't perform well or is it glitchy or something? I've got a GF2 GTS powering my Viewsonic 21" monitor, and aside from the horrible performance of my ultra-crappy system, my 2D graphic display is fantastic.

I know that's not what you asked for, but I'm upgrading soon and was planning on a GF3 card, so I'm very curious about this...

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Mikki
'The reason Im asking is that my current card(LeadTek GF3 Ti200) just isn't good enough in 2D, it was fine for my decent 19", but since I upgraded to my current 21"(Eizo F931), it isn't good enough anymore.'I'm curious as to what you mean by not good enough. It doesn't perform well or is it glitchy or something? I've got a GF2 GTS powering my Viewsonic 21" monitor, and aside from the horrible performance of my ultra-crappy system, my 2D graphic display is fantastic.I know that's not what you asked for, but I'm upgrading soon and was planning on a GF3 card, so I'm very curious about this...

Well, for one thing, text sharpness isn't too good in the edges.
And when displaying stuff like white text on a black backgroun, the white sorta "spills out" into the black.

The overall quality is worse than what Im seeing on our S910 Compaq monitors at work, all using Matrox G200 cards, cept mine thats using a Voodoo3 😉

 

[BarMan]

Well I've dealt with a G2, G3, 8500, and a Matrox vid card and the best 2D quality of them all
is the Matrox.

Next in line is the ATI 8500 cards and last are the nVidia cards.
Matrox doesn't have enough 3D power for me so my best combo
for 2D/3D was the 8500. As fas as the G4 I'm not sure since I haven't
had on, yet! 😉

 

[Sunner]

BarMan, what brands of GeForces have you used?
If I get that Ti4200 it will most likely be a Gainward, so thats primarily what Im looking for oppinions on.

 

[Mikki]

Originally posted by: BarMan
Well I've dealt with a G2, G3, 8500, and a Matrox vid card and the best 2D quality of them all
is the Matrox.

Next in line is the ATI 8500 cards and last are the nVidia cards.
Matrox doesn't have enough 3D power for me so my best combo
for 2D/3D was the 8500. As fas as the G4 I'm not sure since I haven't
had on, yet! 😉

I agree, I don't know much about the ATI cards, but I do know the Matrox cards deliver top notch 2D performance. I'm really looking forward to this new Matrox card that's coming out, though I probably won't be able to afford one!

 

[Rand]

Matrox has long been the king of 2D visual quality, and deservedly so. If you want the best 2D available then the clear option is Matrox. Unless you need 3D performance Matrox would probably suit you very nicely indeed.

ATi's offers reasonably good 2D quality, certainly up to par with Matrox but their generally pretty nice- and the R8500 should be a safe bet to provide somewhat better 2D image quality then your current board while boosting gaming performance slightly.

Gainward, VisionTek, and Leadtek are all pretty much widely regarded as having the best 2D visual quality of any nVidia board manufacturers and the three are pretty comparable in that respect.
They won't quite compare to ATi but most people would be satisfied.

But then... you've already got a LeadTek GF3 TI200, which is typically though of as having extremely good 2D image quality compared to other nVidia graphics cards so I'm very much doubtful you would be satisfied with another LeadTek/VisionTek/Gainward board if your current one is inadequate.
Of the three, if I had to choose one that had the edge I'd go for VisionTek if 2D quality was the only consideration.... but I definitely would not expect you to find it's much better then your present board.

If the R8500/R8500LE is as expensive as you've indicated where you live, then it's likely not a viable option.
I'd pass on nVidia as IMHO it's dubious you'd be satisfied if your present board isnt good enough.
Matrox is the best 2D around... but won't give you even remotely near the 3D performance of your present board.

I'd either spend the extra for a R8500 if you need a board now, or stick with your current card and wait till' the Parhelia arrives and you can get stellar 2D with solid 3D.

 

[Sunner]

Well, crap, if Gainward indeed isn't much better than LeadTek, there's not much sense in upgrading, as the Ti200(granted it's running at 250/500) is good enough in 3D.

I'd go with a G550 in a second if it wasn't for those damn games 🙂

As for price, a 64MB R8500 is ~330$, and there aren't many places selling them.
The Ti4200 I was looking at is Gainwards "PowerPack Ultra/650 XP Golden Sample TV/DVI"(nice name, easy to remember, really), it's ~200$.

Why can't one of nVidia's partners make a damn card with good 2d??
How friggin hard can it be, really :|

Oh well, I'll wait for Parhelia I guess...

 

[Celstar]

Ive been a long time matrox g400 user and I recently switched over to a gainward 4200. I think the 2D is pretty comparable. At least its not so damning that I can notice a huge difference. Not at all... the quality is pretty good.

 

[BFG10K]

They won't quite compare to ATi but most people would be satisfied

Both my Leadtek GF3 Ti500 and Gainward GF4 Ti4600 are just as good as my Radeon at 1600 x 1200 x 85 Hz.

 

[Mem]

Why can't one of nVidia's partners make a damn card with good 2d??

From what I`ve read the NV30 will have big improvement in 2D image quality,the only thing is you`ve a little wait and probably big price tag .

 

[Eagle17]

sorry to hear that the 8500 is so expensive where you are... I have heard repports of someone saying that the golden sample cards have good 2d but I have not seen one personaly.

Both my Leadtek GF3 Ti500 and Gainward GF4 Ti4600 are just as good as my Radeon at 1600 x 1200 x 85 Hz.

Ummm BFG do you have a monitor bigger that 10" ? hey kidding aside I also have a leadtek GF3 and a radeon 8500 and I can tell you on my sony 21" monitor at 1600x1280 the text is horrible .. this is due to the rather poor DACs on the leadtek. the color bandwidth is just not there.. sure the dacs are fast enough to push hi refresh rates but not wide enough for good saturation. also edge quality is not very convincing...

From what I`ve read the NV30 will have big improvement in 2D image quality,the only thing is you`ve a little wait and probably big price tag .

The NV25 has a great core for 2d image quality it is the other parts of the card that make a difference... like the ramdacs and filters on the card ... the companies that put these cards together know that people will buy them just because they are fast at 3d they don't give a rats butt about 2d...

 

[Sunner]

Ummm BFG do you have a monitor bigger that 10" ? hey kidding aside I also have a leadtek GF3 and a radeon 8500 and I can tell you on my sony 21" monitor at 1600x1280 the text is horrible .. this is due to the rather poor DACs on the leadtek. the color bandwidth is just not there.. sure the dacs are fast enough to push hi refresh rates but not wide enough for good saturation. also edge quality is not very convincing...

Sounds exactly like what Im experiencing, Parhelia where art thou?
Just hoping Matrox has a more sane pricing than ATi does, heck around here, you'd think ATi was the Ferrari of GFX cards with their prices.

 

[Eagle17]

hey sunner where are you that the ati's cost so much...?

I know that matrox has always had great pricing in europe so that might be your best bet.. although I have been reading discouraging news about the 3D performance of the matrox... I guess we'll see when it ships if they can get back into the 3d market. ... ahh it seems like yesterday that the g200 had such promise. 🙂

 

[vanderStoep]

Originally posted by: Eagle17
hey sunner where are you that the ati's cost so much...?

Check profile -> read: Sweden.

Sunner have you considered orderng online from an non-swedisch store?

US stores have it @ $ 220 which is not that much over what I guess you would be paying for the gf 4200

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.html?i=1638&p=4

Don`t know if any of the cheap stores ship to Europe for reasonable prices though. (would like to know as I`m european as well)

 

[Sunner]

Yeah I've thought of that, but the problem is if I recieve a card thats DOA, or if it breaks along the way, I imagine that would be one hell of a mess to get it replaced, with shipping across the big pool.

Almost seems like ATi is giving the European market away to nVidia with their pricing.

 

[BFG10K]

Ummm BFG do you have a monitor bigger that 10" ?

19" Sony CPD-G420.

aside I also have a leadtek GF3 and a radeon 8500 and I can tell you on my sony 21" monitor at 1600x1280 the text is horrible

Have you tried 1600 x 1200? After all, that's the correct resolution, not 1600 x 1280.

 

[Mem]

Did some of you guys read the Anandtech GF4 Ti4200 roundup here ,it does meantion the image quality & as you can see they were all fine at 1600x1200@85Hz.

 

[Sunner]

Well, I most certainly am running 1600x1200, and Im seeing the same thing, the outer parts of the screen are blurry and the colors aren't as good as the inner parts.

 

[Mem]

Sunner it might be your monitor,I had a similar problem with my 19" LG it looked blurry on text etc,anyway I RMAed it for a replacement and the text is nice and sharp with the replacement monitor I got with my Leadtek GF2 Ti card,have you actually tried a different video card like ATi or Matrox with that monitor?

 

[rogue1979]

Sorry I found this so late. But if your happy with your 3D performance then go for the low pass filter capacitor mod. I know it sounds scary, but I have modded 6 Geforce cards so far with no problems. Some of the better ones like Gainward showed a slight improvement in 2D test clarity and color saturation, while ones like PNY and Pine Technologies show an astounding transformation. 2D matches the Radeon 8500 easily after the mod.