27 inch 2560x1440 LED Monitor Quality and Grades

[Destiny]

For the past few weeks I have been obsessively researching 27' 2560x1440 monitors of different brands using LG Panel model#
LM270WQ1.

Someone on this forum mentioned about Korean Brands that are selling for cheap on Ebay averaging about $400 (Shipped from Korea), but upon further research on other forums I found out these Monitors are LG Displays A- grade. About 20% to 30% of people whom purchased these monitors noticed visable defects such as off color, off brightness (one half is brighter than others), LCD Bleeding, defective pixels, and other isssues... while the majority of the people reported receiving perfect displays - are very happy and stating it is the best $400 they spent on a PC build. Apparently these displays don't or do come with warranty (depends on where the source comes from). Either way it costs $100+ to ship it back for warranty service (no one has tried it yet)... A third party USA warranty company stated they may cover it for an additional $100... both options effectively make the Korean Brand monitors = $500+/-
I don't know if the defects are due to the A- grade or due to bad handling from shipping.

Regarding the Korean Brands - $400 is still alot for a few bad pixels/minor defects... and chance of major defects/DOA... one of the sellers stated it is Korean Regulation that if it is fewer than 10 bad pixels or minor defect they don't take returns or service warranty... I know if I purchased an LCD Monitor from a USA retail and get one or two bad pixels/minor defect I'm exchanging it for a flawless one - new is NEW! D:

Apparently APPLE Cinema Display is using the same LM270WQ1 in their MAC 27" and retail more than twice as much, but they are using A+ Grade panels. Other 27inch 2560x1440 may not be suitable for gaming due to input lag as shown here in the AnandTech Review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5752/nec-pa271w-when-accuracy-and-consistancy-matter/6

I am planning to get a 2560x1440 display for gaming purposes with my GTX 570 or GTX 680 and people on the forums stated that A grade and A- grade panels or good enough for PC gaming.

Does anyone here can explain to me what the grade differences for LCD panels stand for? I do know there are companies that are buying B, C, and D grades LCD Panels for repairs/refurbs...

Thank-you in advance.

 

[blastingcap]

I am the owner of one of those "A-" grade LG panels that Korean sellers are selling. Everything in life is a risk. You take a risk you don't get scammed or get a panel with 4 dead pixels or horrible bleeding, because guess what, it costs like $100 to ship it back to Korea and you are responsible for return shipping per ebay policies.

Pros (my copy only):

price, resolution, S-IPS, good response time, good input lag if you get one without a scaler (but see below on the problems that can result), and I got a panel that did not have dead pixels, unlike other people.

Cons (again, my copy only, your mileage may vary):

Edit to add: I forgot to add that gamma wasn't right, and of course color wasn't completely correctly calibrated either.

Backlight bleeding is the worst I've ever seen on any LCD panel. A particularly blotchy spot on the top center/right portion of the screen is distracting in movies. Not noticeable in most images, just in very dark scenes.

No calibration tools on screen. Can only change contrast and brightness settings. I will need to use software color calibration. Not a big deal as I got the panel more for photo editing than games and movies. I have my 1080p panels for those.

Can't play back 1080p stuff at native resolution. It won't lose too much sharpness, but still.

Lack of internal scaler.

For me, this means that the computer it is hooked up to will NOT boot up if it's the only monitor connected to it. Like a total idiot, the computer's BIOS detects a display and tries to display a graphic but of course can't. Then instead of shrugging and booting anyway, it just stalls out. I think this may be the specific Intel BIOS I was using, though. The workaround to this problem? Hook up a monitor that does have scaling to the video card. That seems to "wake up" the video card and everything from that point on is peachy.

And obviously the non-scaling panels are ONLY for computer use, and possibly also for use with 720p output if you can get away with using it since it's a direct 1:2 relationship between that resolution and 2560x1440 so it shouldn't require any fancy scaler. Do not plan on using non-scaling panels as TVs.

If you are worried about the scaler problem then get the $490 version of the Korean panels. Those come with internal scalers and onscreen displays. You should have zero problems with BIOSes, or displaying non-native resolutions in general. Plus you get the on-screen display that lets you change color temperatures, color calibration, etc. which I prefer to using over software calibration.

 

[Destiny]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not worried about the scaler problem - planning to get one without a scaler because it is primarly for PC Gaming use... I'm one of those people not willing to take a $400 risk - I can almost build another PC with that money...

For me, this means that the computer it is hooked up to will NOT boot up if it's the only monitor connected to it. Like a total idiot, the computer's BIOS detects a display and tries to display a graphic but of course can't. Then instead of shrugging and booting anyway, it just stalls out. I think this may be the specific Intel BIOS I was using, though. The workaround to this problem? Hook up a monitor that does have scaling to the video card. That seems to "wake up" the video card and everything from that point on is peachy.

Wow, is it only your experience or are there others experiencing this? I have a small PC desk and there is no way I can hook up a second monitor... there is no firmware for that fix?

 

[kevinsbane]

Wow, is it only your experience or are there others experiencing this? I have a small PC desk and there is no way I can hook up a second monitor... there is no firmware for that fix?

YMMV, but my Catleap version "2B" works perfectly in BIOS, whether I was using an HD 5770 (on the "not supported list" of video cards) or a GTX 680. It's weird, since my U2312hm has since stopped working in BIOS with the GTX 680 (displayport issue I think) so my only monitor that I can use in BIOS right now is my Catleap. It is a single input, DVI only model that as far as I can tell should not have a scalar.

 

[blastingcap]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not worried about the scaler problem - planning to get one without a scaler because it is primarly for PC Gaming use... I'm one of those people not willing to take a $400 risk - I can almost build another PC with that money...



Wow, is it only your experience or are there others experiencing this? I have a small PC desk and there is no way I can hook up a second monitor... there is no firmware for that fix?

To be honest I have only tried it with one computer so far since I had it shipped to my gf's place and we hooked it up to her computer. Her computer was 2008 vintage, Intel mobo DG31PR running a HD 7850 Sapphire OC edition video card. I don't know if more modern BIOSes do that kind of crap, because I don't think I saw anyone else at the various internet forums talk about boot-up problems. (Although one guy says his PC acts up in a different way--he has to turn the monitor on first, then the PC. His problems are small compared to mine, haha.)

Since I am loaning her the monitor for the summer, it's not clear to me when I will get a chance to plug it into another computer to see if the problem persists. But between the two of us we have tons of spare monitors, so the multi-monitor thing is not a problem for us.

YMMV, but my Catleap version "2B" works perfectly in BIOS, whether I was using an HD 5770 (on the "not supported list" of video cards) or a GTX 680. It's weird, since my U2312hm has since stopped working in BIOS with the GTX 680 (displayport issue I think) so my only monitor that I can use in BIOS right now is my Catleap. It is a single input, DVI only model that as far as I can tell should not have a scalar.

If it has a VGA or HDMI port, it has a scaler. If it has only a DVI port, it lacks a scaler. On the plus side, it also means having less input lag since there's no scaler.

Perhaps it's a video card issue or whatever, but it doesn't matter since she's ok with having a second monitor hooked up, even if it's there solely for boot-up and never even gets turned on. (We disabled Extended Desktop and set the 2560x1440 monitor as the primary display.)

 

[mple]

US warrantied IPS gaming panels with acceptable input lag won't be available for some time, and even then.. expect to pay Apple Cinema Display prices for it. There's currently a revival of the overclockable Catleap 2B monitors (100hz+). No idea on the pricing as of yet, but I am considering one if it's no more than $450.

 

[Destiny]

US warrantied IPS gaming panels with acceptable input lag won't be available for some time, and even then.. expect to pay Apple Cinema Display prices for it. There's currently a revival of the overclockable Catleap 2B monitors (100hz+). No idea on the pricing as of yet, but I am considering one if it's no more than $450.

What is acceptable input lag for gaming montiors now-a-days? Especially if you play First person shooters?

Interesting about the overclockable Catleap - I wonder if it degrades the life of the board if it heats up? I've always game with 60Hz monitors and have no problems with it... I currently have a 27inch 1920x1200 I-Inc that works fine... but reading those 2560x1440 threads got me all OCD about it now...

 

[Destiny]

YMMV, but my Catleap version "2B" works perfectly in BIOS, whether I was using an HD 5770 (on the "not supported list" of video cards) or a GTX 680. It's weird, since my U2312hm has since stopped working in BIOS with the GTX 680 (displayport issue I think) so my only monitor that I can use in BIOS right now is my Catleap. It is a single input, DVI only model that as far as I can tell should not have a scalar.

Does it goes into sleep mode when you turn off your PC? and comes back on when your turn on your PC? I have an i-Inc that does that and I never push the power button on the monitor...

 

[WhoFarted]

What is acceptable input lag for gaming montiors now-a-days? Especially if you play First person shooters?

Interesting about the overclockable Catleap - I wonder if it degrades the life of the board if it heats up? I've always game with 60Hz monitors and have no problems with it... I currently have a 27inch 1920x1200 I-Inc that works fine... but reading those 2560x1440 threads got me all OCD about it now...

My current monitor is 5ms and I have no problems. I can't tell the difference between it and my previous 2ms monitor. I think response times are sometimes fudged/inaccurate by manfs. A true 6ms response should be sufficient. Dell has a high rated 27" ips at 6ms available now, about $800-$900 http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraShar...844679&sr=1-25

 

[mple]

Response time is not the same as input lag.

 

[Destiny]

My current monitor is 5ms and I have no problems. I can't tell the difference between it and my previous 2ms monitor. I think response times are sometimes fudged/inaccurate by manfs. A true 6ms response should be sufficient. Dell has a high rated 27" ips at 6ms available now, about $800-$900 http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraShar...844679&sr=1-25

You can read about input lag here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5752/nec-pa271w-when-accuracy-and-consistancy-matter/6

 

[biostud]

There's also a UK brand Hazro, who produces glossy 27" 2560x1440 monitors well suited for gaming.

Hazro hz27wc

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/368839/hazro-hz27wc

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz27wa.htm

 

[Destiny]

There's also a UK brand Hazro, who produces glossy 27" 2560x1440 monitors well suited for gaming.

Hazro hz27wc

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/368839/hazro-hz27wc

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz27wa.htm

I heard that is a really good brand too... probably A or A+ grade panels (correct me if I'm wrong )because it is also marketed for commercial and industrial use. Reason why it costs a bit more...

 

[Upgrade_Itch]

There's also a UK brand Hazro, who produces glossy 27" 2560x1440 monitors well suited for gaming.

Hazro hz27wc

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/368839/hazro-hz27wc

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz27wa.htm

Sounds nice.
:thumbsup:

Prefer glossy screens as I can control every aspect of lighting at home. More color saturation, images pop.

 

[blastingcap]

There's also a UK brand Hazro, who produces glossy 27" 2560x1440 monitors well suited for gaming.

Hazro hz27wc

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/368839/hazro-hz27wc

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz27wa.htm

I hope you realize that the 2560x1440 S-IPS Hazro monitors are basically the same as the A- Korean monitors (if they are better on average it is only because of quality control measures, like buying A rather than A- grade panels, though I really doubt that). Apparently most people figure it's just another brand that buys A- grade LG panels. I think there was a funny thread in another forum where someone was having trouble with their monitor. The manual was in Korean (useless to them), so they looked up the Hazro manual in English since it was the same monitor anyway, and that solved their problem.

 

[Grooveriding]

My opinion is that when you want to get a big IPS panel you are looking for increased resolution and the display quality that goes along with that panel size. I wouldn't take a chance and create a climate of uncertainty over a few hundred dollars on what is already an expensive purchase. Especially not when it comes with dealing with ebay, unknown sellers in far off foreign countries and lackluster or no warranty coverage with huge return shipping costs. The whole thing just sounds like a big PITA.

Save yourself the headache and get a 27" Dell, that all come with a 3 year warranty, first 30 days exchange for brand new and the certainty that you well get a quality display. That or the 27" Apple you are considering which I assume has a decent warranty as well and can be exchanged for any defects and which I know for certain from experience is a very nice 27" screen. Better than the Dell 27" is to my eyes.

 

[kevinsbane]

My opinion is that when you want to get a big IPS panel you are looking for increased resolution and the display quality that goes along with that panel size. I wouldn't take a chance and create a climate of uncertainty over a few hundred dollars on what is already an expensive purchase. Especially not when it comes with dealing with ebay, unknown sellers in far off foreign countries and lackluster or no warranty coverage with huge return shipping costs. The whole thing just sounds like a big PITA.

Save yourself the headache and get a 27" Dell, that all come with a 3 year warranty, first 30 days exchange for brand new and the certainty that you well get a quality display. That or the 27" Apple you are considering which I assume has a decent warranty as well and can be exchanged for any defects and which I know for certain from experience is a very nice 27" screen. Better than the Dell 27" is to my eyes.

That makes sense if you need such a monitor. Now, if the reason you are thinking about getting a 27" 2560x1440 monitor is simply a want... I say this is as good as it gets.

Actually, it seems that Achieva is the actual OEM for Hazro's monitors; that is, Hazro's monitors are Achieva's monitors rebranded and perhaps a bit of extra stuff. So the price difference is probably due to them using a higher end monitor (DisplayPort, Scalar, OSD, USB hub, stand...) or because they are forced to offer a better warranty in Europe. And/or import duties.

 

[Gunbuster]

My question is why can a fly by night off brand company make a monitor for sub $400 while the Dell or HP comes in at $900+

The growing interest should show the big name makers of 27" screens that people are sick of getting fleeced and that they could sell a LOT more monitors if they would get them down in the $500/600 range.

 

[kevinsbane]

My question is why can a fly by night off brand company make a monitor for sub $400 while the Dell or HP comes in at $900+

The growing interest should show the big name makers of 27" screens that people are sick of getting fleeced and that they could sell a LOT more monitors if they would get them down in the $500/600 range.

They use lesser quality panels, offer an inferior warranty, and make no mistake, these are cheap monitors. The stands are cheap, the mountings are cheap, the housing is cheap, the PCBs are cheap.

There probably is no technical reason why they couldn't sell stuff like U2711 for ~$600, but the reason is mostly likely business. Why sell U2711 for $600 when people are willing to pay $800-$1000 for it? Sure, demand increases with lower prices, but profit per monitor also goes down. Thus, it's a balancing act; at what point does profit go down when lowering (or raising) prices? I'm guessing Dell, Apple and HP have made that calculation already and set their prices based on that.

 

[biostud]

To me the problem is that if you want a glossy 27" IPS you only have three choices:
Apple
Hazro
The Korean models

To me the Apple is to expensive and the lack of warranty/quality from the korean models makes me not want to buy them, so that leaves me with Hazro. Now if I could get a dell U2711, HP w2740, or Samsung SA850T with a glossy screen I would go for one of these.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

My opinion is that when you want to get a big IPS panel you are looking for increased resolution and the display quality that goes along with that panel size. I wouldn't take a chance and create a climate of uncertainty over a few hundred dollars on what is already an expensive purchase. Especially not when it comes with dealing with ebay, unknown sellers in far off foreign countries and lackluster or no warranty coverage with huge return shipping costs. The whole thing just sounds like a big PITA.

Save yourself the headache and get a 27" Dell, that all come with a 3 year warranty, first 30 days exchange for brand new and the certainty that you well get a quality display. That or the 27" Apple you are considering which I assume has a decent warranty as well and can be exchanged for any defects and which I know for certain from experience is a very nice 27" screen. Better than the Dell 27" is to my eyes.

I sorta agree but not 100%

Anyway, if not dell then hp has a good 27" for 650ish which makes more sense IMO

 

[Subyman]

I'm not really one to roll the dice with 400+ dollars without a warranty. I am very sensitive to backlight bleeding and gamma shifts. I would rather roll the dice on a newegg open box monitor that could be returned.

 

[Kantastic]

To me the problem is that if you want a glossy 27" IPS you only have three choices:
Apple
Hazro
The Korean models

To me the Apple is to expensive and the lack of warranty/quality from the korean models makes me not want to buy them, so that leaves me with Hazro. Now if I could get a dell U2711, HP w2740, or Samsung SA850T with a glossy screen I would go for one of these.

Hazro = The Korean models

 

[KingFatty]

My question is why can a fly by night off brand company make a monitor for sub $400 while the Dell or HP comes in at $900+

The growing interest should show the big name makers of 27" screens that people are sick of getting fleeced and that they could sell a LOT more monitors if they would get them down in the $500/600 range.

Don't miss the point that the less-expensive Korean/catleap monitors actually have fewer features thereby saving manufacturing costs.

Example:
1) no circuitry for scaling
2) no circuitry and hardware for additional port
3) no processing/materials for anti-glare coating
4) etc. etc.

So it's not like there is some unknown pixie dust that causes difference in price. Instead, it's tangible features that are done away with to keep costs low.

The simple formula is an "expensive" monitor by Dell or HP will buy the very same LG Panel, and then apply additional processing/parts/circuitry/features that cost extra money. Also, there is the additional cost to get A+ panel ensuring fewer dead pixels, so LG is willing to sell the panel at lower cost for A- or A rating. The unknown comes in because you may find a pixel-perfect A or A- panel.

As an analogy: you can buy a CPU and it's a lower-end model, but actually you can overclock it to be the same as the more expensive model. Just as AMD or Intel uses "binning" to separate the really good chips from the others, you can see a similar binning process applied to display panels, where you get lucky and end up with a really good panel just as you get lucky and get a really good CPU that will overclock. As process matures, you find that almost all "low end" chips will overclock/unlock easily, perhaps same idea with maturing display production technology for 27" 1440p panels.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

I'm not really one to roll the dice with 400+ dollars without a warranty. I am very sensitive to backlight bleeding and gamma shifts. I would rather roll the dice on a newegg open box monitor that could be returned.

This

I can't stand backlight bleeding, one of the reasons I replaced my previous lcd