27' 2560x1440 or 23' 120hz Monitor

[toyota]

Your going to get 5ms to 8ms on the LED LCD. If vsync is on, which is should be, then your going to get input lag, mouse will be laggy, motion blur and ghosting.

If you get the 2560res even worse.. Probably 8ms or more,,, input lag,,,,

I am @ 1ms , 0 input lag as you can see in my rig sig. vsync on 60 fps capped.

will you please STOP saying that same BS over and over again? LED is just a backlight and you can get 2ms LED monitors. and screen response has NOTHING to do with input lag. how many freaking times do you have to be told before you stop saying that crap???

 

[nanaki333]

Tons of misinformation and ignorance going on in this thread.

Long story short, 120Hz does make a difference for 2D



I have a similar setup, but with a BenQ XL2410T and a Dell U2711

I got the U2711 for work first and play second, but ever since going to 120Hz I never game on my U2711 anymore, even for my games that have an artificial frame rate cap @ 60fps. Its not just superior motion clarity, its also night and day superior when it comes to input response time.

Granted, I'm probably a 99th percentile gamer, so just like with CPU/GPU bottle-neck balancing, that could be used to describe the analogous human/human-interface-device balancing. If you're not an exceptionally skilled gamer, you probably won't benefit from the difference, although I guarantee the vast majority would be able to successfully identify a 120Hz game in motion vs. a 60Hz in a "pepsi challenge"

Some problems with 120Hz:

1. it arguably requires a higher end rig than driving a 2560@60Hz monitor to push frames high enough to enjoy the refresh rate advantage to its fullest. Granted, the savings from going with a 23-24" 120Hz monitor instead of a 2560 27-30" monitor could easily be put into the hardware necessary to properly drive it.

2. 120Hz is also a more foreign concept in regards to software support, some games will simply try to force a 60Hz refresh rate with no alternative refresh rate options at all, or don't have an official setting for up to 120Hz , requiring setting up a driver profile to override it. For instance, Dead Island, for whatever reason, only goes up to 100Hz, but a quick edit in my nVidia control panel driver profile (there's an option to force use of the monitor's highest refresh rate) which successfully overrode it and the game will run 1920x1080@120Hz as verified by my monitor (although even at 100Hz its clearly superior to 60Hz)

what misinformation? the way a person perceives things can't be wrong. if you're that anal to WANT to see the difference you will. i have a 120hz display and i stopped using it cause i saw no benefit with it. only thing i noticed was it was super bright. i got it to play 3d games but the novelty of that wore off quick. that's just how i perceive it though, that doesn't make me any less wrong than you. i'm more about the enjoyment of games, not nitpicking every little detail. as long as i don't get low fps drops i just enjoy games.

another reason i stopped using it was because it didn't match my other displays. i opted for eyefinity and the asus display looked too out of place and as far as i could tell, offered me no benefit to game on it as a single monitor even.

 

[blackened23]

what misinformation? the way a person perceives things can't be wrong. if you're that anal to WANT to see the difference you will. i have a 120hz display and i stopped using it cause i saw no benefit with it. only thing i noticed was it was super bright. i got it to play 3d games but the novelty of that wore off quick. that's just how i perceive it though, that doesn't make me any less wrong than you. i'm more about the enjoyment of games, not nitpicking every little detail. as long as i don't get low fps drops i just enjoy games.

another reason i stopped using it was because it didn't match my other displays. i opted for eyefinity and the asus display looked too out of place and as far as i could tell, offered me no benefit to game on it as a single monitor even.

What monitor do you have. Are you using the proper cables, etc? Sounds like you were duped by the LG tru motion panel, which many non LG branded montors have. Interpolated 60hz screens.

With a true 120hz monitor the difference is VERY apparent compared a 60hz screen...and please don't say that it was because "I wanted" to see a difference, i was extremely skeptical before viewing it.

 

[nanaki333]

What monitor do you have. Are you using the proper cables, etc? Sounds like you were duped by the LG tru motion panel, which many non LG branded montors have. Interpolated 60hz screens.

With a true 120hz monitor the difference is VERY apparent compared a 60hz screen...and please don't say that it was because "I wanted" to see a difference, i was extremely skeptical before viewing it.

i have a 120hz asus 3d display. there's only 1 asus 120hz display. like i said, i don't even notice. or maybe it's because i don't care. you can't change the way i percieve things. i'm not going to just wake up in the middle of the night saying "damn. blackened was right. my mind and eyes suck." and as i already said, i played 3d on it so i had the right cable, otherwise it would not have worked.

 

[iCyborg]

What monitor do you have. Are you using the proper cables, etc? Sounds like you were duped by the LG tru motion panel, which many non LG branded montors have. Interpolated 60hz screens.

With a true 120hz monitor the difference is VERY apparent compared a 60hz screen...and please don't say that it was because "I wanted" to see a difference, i was extremely skeptical before viewing it.

I've been working with Samsung SA950 for a couple days at work, which is a true 120Hz 27" monitor (3D as well), and this "very apparent" difference you speak of is nearly nondetectable with mostly static images (like documents, simple websites, or going through win explorer or control panel). I don't have games at work, though I did run 3d mark and some movie clips, and I can accept it has noticeable advantages in those. However, there's no way in hell I would replace my U2410 at home or U2711 at work for everyday purposes. The image quality deficiences of the TN panel by far negate any 120Hz advantages it may have and are far more noticeable to me. When we get 120Hz IPS with 8bpp at around $500-600, I'll consider them again.
I can see how people coming from cheap TN panels would like them though, if those are their reference points...

 

[blackened23]

i have a 120hz asus 3d display. there's only 1 asus 120hz display. like i said, i don't even notice. or maybe it's because i don't care. you can't change the way i percieve things. i'm not going to just wake up in the middle of the night saying "damn. blackened was right. my mind and eyes suck." and as i already said, i played 3d on it so i had the right cable, otherwise it would not have worked.

READ AGAIN. WHAT MODEL?

Sorry for caps. Asus has more than 1 "120hz" monitor and they are based on LG true motion. Those are *not* true 120hz! WHAT model of monitor do you have. This is why I am asking. What you bought was a marketing scheme, it is not 120hz at all. They are actually refreshing at 60.

Really don't care about the back and forth, but the difference with a true 120hz screen is obvious. Like I said I was a real skeptic before seeing it -- the monitor i've used is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009300

 

[ed29a]

will you please STOP saying that same BS over and over again? LED is just a backlight and you can get 2ms LED monitors. and screen response has NOTHING to do with input lag. how many freaking times do you have to be told before you stop saying that crap???

You must be new here.

 

[nanaki333]

alright fine. i didn't want to get up to look but it's this one Asus VG236H. it came with the 3d vision glasses and was like the first one asus put out.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

i have a 120hz asus 3d display. there's only 1 asus 120hz display. like i said, i don't even notice. or maybe it's because i don't care. you can't change the way i percieve things. i'm not going to just wake up in the middle of the night saying "damn. blackened was right. my mind and eyes suck." and as i already said, i played 3d on it so i had the right cable, otherwise it would not have worked.

Except he is right, and thus your mind/eyes do suck. Don't get too down on yourself though, because at least you now know that fact and thus no longer have to worry about paying for a more expensive monitor.

 

[nanaki333]

Except he is right, and thus your mind/eyes do suck. Don't get too down on yourself though, because at least you now know that fact and thus no longer have to worry about paying for a more expensive monitor.

nope. my eyes just don't care to notice. i got the display for the 3d novelty and got real old real fast. i tried just using it as a regular display and saw no real benefit to keeping it in place. eyefinity with better than average displays is just dandy

 

[xylem]

With CRTs the problem was the flicker since CRT needs to redraw the image X time per second even if it's static. It's a fundamentally different thing compared to LCD.

It is true that flicker in CRTs play(ed) a role in comfort while looking at the screen, and that is quite different from LCDs in that the repetitive fluctuation in brightness is there in a CRT (yuck) and not in a CFL-backlit LCD, and that fluctuation can contribute to visual discomfort. So, the fluctuation in brightness of the screen is fundamentally different in a CRT and a CFL-backlit LCD. Interestingly, LED-backlit LCDs also flicker when they are not turned up to full brightness (of which the vast majority are not), and the fluctuation in brightness (perhaps even greater in this case), also causes visual discomfort.. more-so for older eyes, as with CRTs. In this aspect, you might find the comfort/discomfort experience to be less different than you think, unless you run an LED monitor at full brightness.

I'm not sure what you mean by redrawing.. maybe the above? Redrawing is a term that i understand as performed by the video card, as it is actually "drawing" the image, and in that aspect it performs the same function for a CRT and an LCD, where the display does just that.. displays the image that is input by either flashing the image in a CRT or re-configuring LCD pixels over a constant (CFL) or flickering (dimmed LED) backlight.

The display's refresh rate is fundamentally the same in a CRT and an LCD, as is the smoothness of perceived motion in the images projected by the display, as this motion is directly related to the refresh rate, assuming the video card can draw or render images at a rate that is sufficient to take advantage of it.. To say that they are fundamentally different (period) is wrong, as in their ability to display smooth motion, as a sequence of rendered frames, at a given refresh rate, fundamentally (in my opinion), the same.

 

[apoppin]

what misinformation? the way a person perceives things can't be wrong. if you're that anal to WANT to see the difference you will. i have a 120hz display and i stopped using it cause i saw no benefit with it. only thing i noticed was it was super bright. i got it to play 3d games but the novelty of that wore off quick. that's just how i perceive it though, that doesn't make me any less wrong than you. i'm more about the enjoyment of games, not nitpicking every little detail. as long as i don't get low fps drops i just enjoy games.

another reason i stopped using it was because it didn't match my other displays. i opted for eyefinity and the asus display looked too out of place and as far as i could tell, offered me no benefit to game on it as a single monitor even.

You have got to be kidding


i have 3 of those ASUS displays and they need to have the brightness turned down for 2D gaming and the color is too hot out of the box. You make two simple adjustments

No wonder some of you don't get it
:whiste:


Anyway. i just got the 2nd generation 27" ASUS VG278 3D Vision 2 bundle yesterday - along with the 23" 120Hz HDMI 1.4a Viewsonic V3D231 (HD3D ready). It will be interesting to see if there is improvement from one generation to the next and how HD3D compares to 3D Vision 2

 

[iCyborg]

It is true that flicker in CRTs play(ed) a role in comfort while looking at the screen, and that is quite different from LCDs in that the repetitive fluctuation in brightness is there in a CRT (yuck) and not in a CFL-backlit LCD, and that fluctuation can contribute to visual discomfort. So, the fluctuation in brightness of the screen is fundamentally different in a CRT and a CFL-backlit LCD. Interestingly, LED-backlit LCDs also flicker when they are not turned up to full brightness (of which the vast majority are not), and the fluctuation in brightness (perhaps even greater in this case), also causes visual discomfort.. more-so for older eyes, as with CRTs. In this aspect, you might find the comfort/discomfort experience to be less different than you think, unless you run an LED monitor at full brightness.

I'm not sure what you mean by redrawing.. maybe the above? Redrawing is a term that i understand as performed by the video card, as it is actually "drawing" the image, and in that aspect it performs the same function for a CRT and an LCD, where the display does just that.. displays the image that is input by either flashing the image in a CRT or re-configuring LCD pixels over a constant (CFL) or flickering (dimmed LED) backlight.

The display's refresh rate is fundamentally the same in a CRT and an LCD, as is the smoothness of perceived motion in the images projected by the display, as this motion is directly related to the refresh rate, assuming the video card can draw or render images at a rate that is sufficient to take advantage of it.. To say that they are fundamentally different (period) is wrong, as in their ability to display smooth motion, as a sequence of rendered frames, at a given refresh rate, fundamentally (in my opinion), the same.

What I meant was that with CRT you need to redraw each pixel or it will go dark and the sooner you do it, the less will it have lost its brightness/colour (yes, colour distortion too, phosphors for different colours aren't the same), with LCD it stays (practically) the same until you refresh it, yes, you will still refresh it 60 times per second at 60Hz.
Changing refresh rate after Win install with CRT was the first thing I'd do, 60Hz is just horrible, you really need at least 85Hz. Saying that 60Hz -> 85 Hz on LCD is fundamentally the same thing is wrong IMO, because the main reason why you did it on CRT doesn't apply to LCDs at all.

 

[nanaki333]

You have got to be kidding


i have 3 of those ASUS displays and they need to have the brightness turned down for 2D gaming and the color is too hot out of the box. You make two simple adjustments

No wonder some of you don't get it
:whiste:


Anyway. i just got the 2nd generation 27" ASUS VG278 3D Vision 2 bundle yesterday - along with the 23" 120Hz HDMI 1.4a Viewsonic V3D231 (HD3D ready). It will be interesting to see if there is improvement from one generation to the next and how HD3D compares to 3D Vision 2

you really under estimate my laziness.... and yes, it is super bright. well since everyone is jumping up my sack, i'll pull it out and give it another chance. this time i'll actually adjust it though. i really hate how big and bulky it is compared to my slim monitors though.

 

[apoppin]

you really under estimate my laziness.... and yes, it is super bright. well since everyone is jumping up my sack, i'll pull it out and give it another chance. this time i'll actually adjust it though. i really hate how big and bulky it is compared to my slim monitors though.

i got to agree there. i don't like the lack of swivel neither
(while i am complaining)

The new Viewsonic VD231 (HD3D w/passive glasses) is super-thin.

You have to remember that the ASUS is a first gen 3D Vision LCD that mostly got it right. But it still needs adjustment. i'll quote myself from my Mega-3D evaluation:

It is extremely bright out of the box and it is almost unpleasant for 2D work. Also, the color temperature is set too high and the gamma curve is set too low, meaning that the colors tend more towards blue with relatively light shades of grey that should be darker. These are not real issues for playing games with 3D Vision as the games tend to be dark using active shutter glasses although colors are reproduced accurately.

If you play 3D again, make sure to follow Nvidia's recommendations for each game. Motion Blur should almost always be off as our brains supply it in S3D gaming, and AA can be set pretty low and still look good. Film grain (like in L4D series) should always be off.

i am going to test my 27" 2nd Generation 120Hz ASUS 27" display this week with Batman AC. Soon as i finish a VC review under NDA
:whiste:

 

[nanaki333]

i got to agree there. i don't like the lack of swivel neither
(while i am complaining)

The new Viewsonic VD231 (HD3D w/passive glasses) is super-thin.

You have to remember that the ASUS is a first gen 3D Vision LCD that mostly got it right. But it still needs adjustment. i'll quote myself from my Mega-3D evaluation:


If you play 3D again, make sure to follow Nvidia's recommendations for each game. Motion Blur should almost always be off as our brains supply it in S3D gaming, and AA can be set pretty low and still look good. Film grain (like in L4D series) should always be off.

i am going to test my 27" 2nd Generation 120Hz ASUS 27" display this week with Batman AC. Soon as i finish a VC review under NDA
:whiste:

have you used the new HD3D monitor? wondering how that compares to 3d vision. i saw an LG monitor that was HD3D ready. being that you sort of do this for a living, what's your take on HD3D? is it comparable, worse, better? the other thing that made me stop using the asus is my current graphics cards are AMD. i had a gtx 590 for a little bit that i used with it.

 

[eagle101]

The image confirms what we see

i am going to use a high speed digi-cam (240fps) in an attempt to show the difference when i get my 27" 120Hz display (tomorrow) in a future evaluation. The above pic is with a high speed cam that Nvidia captured; however, it is more worst case/best case.

The difference is clear and no one with a 60Hz LCD can imagine it - until they see it for themseves.
:whiste:

What games do you play and at what fps? Which display? Some of the early ones did not have such a great response time.

on the pure image pix.......i have a ultrasharp 2410 im waiting for my new 5970 ati card
will i come close to that pix of pure image at all?
thanks

 

[imaheadcase]

I stand by it, don't see the difference. I hauled my 24 inch over to brothers next to his and watched BF3 on both of them. Nothing different to me. U2410 of mine looks better actually.

 

[apoppin]

have you used the new HD3D monitor? wondering how that compares to 3d vision. i saw an LG monitor that was HD3D ready. being that you sort of do this for a living, what's your take on HD3D? is it comparable, worse, better? the other thing that made me stop using the asus is my current graphics cards are AMD. i had a gtx 590 for a little bit that i used with it.

i got my 2 displays both on Black Friday (by coincidence). i haven't even opened them yet (except to see they were undamaged)
:$

i have a new video card that i am evaluating under NDA; as soon as i write the review, i am SO on Batman AC and the 27" display. After a quick evaluation of 3D Vision 2, i will compare the Viewsonic (passive glasses) setup versus 3D Vision 2 (versus 3D Vision 1). That more expanded evaluation will probably be late December to properly evaluate HD3D using the passive glasses.

i have a ultrasharp 2410 im waiting for my new 5970 ati card
will i come close to that pix of pure image at all?

If you play anything *other* than fast-paced first person shooters, you will want a nice non-TN display. i use my HP LP 3065 for everything but (3D and) twitch shooters. For the shooters you cannot beat a fast 120Hz display (as long as you have a capable PC to supply the framerates)

 

[eagle101]

ok guys thanks.....

 

[OCNewbie]

Hmm, this V3D231 Viewsonic monitor has me intrigued.

 

[rgallant]

27A850D
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...syncmaster-27a850d-27-pls-monitor-review.html
-any opinions if this monitor would it be better\or not for gaming over the dell u2711 ?