2560x1600, what GPU?

[Nemeth782]

I think the time has come to replace my ageing 4870X2, as it just can't cope with the latest games at 2560x1600.

So, I'm looking at replacements.

I seem to remember the 6950 being BIOS unlockable to 6970... is this still the case or was it only with the initial batch of cards? If so, this may be the cheapest option, as I can have two of these for around the price of a 580!

Failing that, I am tempted by the idea of either 570 SLi, a single 580, or possibly some permutation of the 6970.

I'm AMD at the moment, but I'm flexible on brand. My last setup was 8800 tri-sli, and I have a PC kicking around with a 280 in it.

If I'm honest I'd like to replay Arkham Asylum with PhysX, especially as my motherboard (GA-X58-UD5) has enough PCIe slots for me to have say, 570 SLi and use the 280 out of my other PC for PhysX. I also like the idea of hooking up to my 3D TV for 3D Vision (I seem to remember nvidia saying they had launched/were launching 3dplay or something to allow this).

On the other hand, I almost feel like by going nVidia I'd be throwing money away, especially if I can do 6970 xfire with a pair of modded 6950's.... I know there are (were?) hacked drivers about to do PhysX with mixed cards but when I last did that it was an absolute ball ache, and I know I'd never bother with it, except for posting some ridiculous 3Dmark Vantage scores on ATi hardware.

As I'm at 2560x1600 I guess the usual "single 580 is fine for 1080p" argument is irrelevant, if multigpu setups aren't meant for this monitor then they aren't meant for anything! My current card can't even max out Fable 3.... 4 megapixels is over double 1080p, and due to that, large vRam requirements of the res, and the fact that SLI/xFire don't scale 100%, it seems like I should be looking at multi-gpu.

Then there is always the Mulligan option - Pick up a 2nd 4870X2 from ebay for pennies, wait for Radeon HD7000 and nVidia 600....

tl;dr what cards for my res?

 

[uclaLabrat]

I just plopped in a single 6970, played even the BF3 beta just fine, albeit at slightly reduced settings. If I had the cash I probably woulda sprang for 2x 6950, that should crush anything. As it is, whichever route you go, make sure you get a 2GB card (or the 1.5GB 580 or 570 versions) as games are using over a gig at that res now.

 

[Grooveriding]

How much do you care about IQ settings and what kind of games do you play ?

If you care about IQ and you plan to play recent, demanding games; you're going to need two cards. 6950 2GB CF is the best value for that resolution, 6970CF is better. 570SLI is no good unless you want to buy the 2.5GB versions @ $400 each, doesn't make much sense when a 6970 is $330AR

6970CF & 580SLI are about equal at 2560x1600 in demanding games, so decide between those two if you don't want to go for the value choice of the $480 6950 2GB CF.

6970CF is about $200 cheaper than 580SLI though.
http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150530

 

[Nemeth782]

Awesome, thanks!

For me, prices are in £. How I wish Newegg existed over here....

This means a single 6970 2gb is the same price (within £5) as a 570 1280mb at £249.99/£254.99.

A 6950 2gb is £204.99, so basically £50 cheaper.

Tempted by the 6950 option, assuming unlocking is a sure thing. My heart says 580 SLI but I guess my head says 6970 xfire....

I'm an eclectic gamer. FPSes are not usually my thing but I will probably play BF3 if not on day of release (to me the BF games are tank/plane simulators not FPSs, I'm the annoying guy that will not leave the base without one of the above). Other than that it is RPGs or Strategy (Fable 3, Mass Effect, etc) although even these sorts of games I cannot max out anymore on my current card.

I'd like to be able to run any modern game at 4xfsaa without dramatic lag. If relevant, CPU is an i7 920 @4ghz, I've been waiting for SB-E for an upgrade!!

I guess the choice is 6970 xfire (not 570 due to RAM limits, I remember GTA:IV telling me 1gb per GPU was not enough) or 580 SLI, although I worry about RAM with this too.... 6950 xfire would be perfect if I can be sure to be able to unlock....

 

[Carfax83]

6970CF & 580SLI are about equal at 2560x1600 in demanding games, so decide between those two if you don't want to go for the value choice of the $480 6950 2GB CF.

I wouldn't trust those benchmarks. Looks like they use older drivers (just look at the Civ V and Metro 2033 benches) or something, because Nvidia is typically stronger than AMD in those two titles.

Also, the list of games is pretty small. If I were you, I'd peruse a few websites for reviews that use current drivers and more titles.

Here's a good one for starters.

One thing I'll say though as a fellow 30 inch LCD monitor owner, is that a multiple GPU solution is pretty much necessary for 2560x1600 assuming you want to play at high settings.

I'd recommend GTX 580 SLi. If you're worried about VRAM limit, there's no evidence that the 580's 1.5GB of VRAM can't handle 2560x1600 in all but the most extreme circumstances.

And by extreme, I mean running 8xAA at 2560x1600 or something equally foolish. I haven't had any issues with VRAM limitations and I've had my 580s for a while now, plus I'm an avid gamer!

*Edit* Also, Batman Arkham City (the sequel to Arkham Asylum) will also use PhysX (and 3D vision), so thats even more incentive to go with Nvidia.

 

[Nemeth782]

Haha, looks like 580 SLi it is, with my trusty 280 for PhysX.

I never realised when I bought this (admittedly still gorgeous) monitor what a voracious appetite for GPUs it would have...

 

[lehtv]

AMD cards scale better in dual-GPU. 6970 crossfire is a lot cheaper than GTX 580 SLI while performing the same. Plus you get additional VRAM, which is sure to be of use at 2560x1600 in games like Rage, BF3, even CIV5 (uses over 1GB in DX11 1080p for me). Personally I would go with 6950 crossfire and unlock and overclock them to 6970 speeds. Once they start feeling slow (probably not any time soon) I'd upgrade to 7950 crossfire, or they might last until 8000 series.

 

[Grooveriding]

I wouldn't trust those benchmarks. Looks like they use older drivers (just look at the Civ V and Metro 2033 benches) or something, because Nvidia is typically stronger than AMD in those two titles.

Also, the list of games is pretty small. If I were you, I'd peruse a few websites for reviews that use current drivers and more titles.

Here's a good one for starters.

One thing I'll say though as a fellow 30 inch LCD monitor owner, is that a multiple GPU solution is pretty much necessary for 2560x1600 assuming you want to play at high settings.

I'd recommend GTX 580 SLi. If you're worried about VRAM limit, there's no evidence that the 580's 1.5GB of VRAM can't handle 2560x1600 in all but the most extreme circumstances.

And by extreme, I mean running 8xAA at 2560x1600 or something equally foolish. I haven't had any issues with VRAM limitations and I've had my 580s for a while now, plus I'm an avid gamer!

*Edit* Also, Batman Arkham City (the sequel to Arkham Asylum) will also use PhysX (and 3D vision), so thats even more incentive to go with Nvidia.

In Metro the 580s are hitting a VRAM wall, it's why 6970CF is faster at 2560x1600, more memory. AMD's cards have better texture throughput than nvidia's, it's part of why they perform so well at high resolutions.

Anand's reviews are solid. That review you linked is sort of irrelevant. It's not comparing CF to SLI, it's single card benchmarks. Crossfire scales better than SLI, which in tandem with AMD's better performance at high resolutions, tips performance for AMD. There are other benchmarks using those cards that show the same general results.

At 2560x1600, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference between a 6970CF or 580SLI setup if you couldn't see in the case. Once you get into the price point of 580 SLI, you're also in 6970 Tri-Fire territory. Heck for another $60 on top of the cost of 6970CF and $150 less than 580 SLI you can get 3 6950s for $720 which will blow the doors off 580SLI and 6970CF, and if you unlock them....

580SLI is a really poor option if you are at 2560x1600 with the current available AMD cards.

 

[Insomniator]

This thread is really making me want to get a 30 inch monitor and Dual GPU's.

 

[Elfear]

I'll echo the others and cast another vote for a pair of 2GB 6950's. They are the best bargain for gaming at 1600p. 580 SLI is a waste IMO. You get the same performance as 6970 Crossfire for a lot more money.

 

[acx]

Why don't you wait for the retail version to be out in 2 weeks before buying your hardware? Beta version was supposedly a client that was 2 months old.

 

[Carfax83]

In Metro the 580s are hitting a VRAM wall, it's why 6970CF is faster at 2560x1600, more memory. AMD's cards have better texture throughput than nvidia's, it's part of why they perform so well at high resolutions.

I've played through Metro 2033 twice, first on dual 480 SLi, and finally on 580 SLi, and I never ran into any VRAM wall.

The only time VRAM plays a major factor in Metro 2033, is if you're playing at resolutions above 2560x1600, or if you're turning on MSAA (MSAA is completely unnecessary at 1600p when you have analytical AA) and or DoF (DoF is a massive performance hog for a questionable IQ boost and most people always recommend turning it off..)

Overall, you have to admit that it's very rare to run into VRAM limits at 2560x1600. There are only a few exceptions where this occurs, which is why the 3GB GTX 580s aren't worth it unless you're playing at resolutions above 2560x1600..

Anand's reviews are solid. That review you linked is sort of irrelevant. It's not comparing CF to SLI, it's single card benchmarks. Crossfire scales better than SLI, which in tandem with AMD's better performance at high resolutions, tips performance for AMD. There are other benchmarks using those cards that show the same general results.

The whole point of me posting that review was to give a more current perspective on the performance of both GPUs with up to date drivers. It's difficult to find reviews of SLi rigs that use current drivers, and drivers can make a big difference in the benchmarks.

The 280xx and 285xx series increase SLi performance pretty much across the board from my experience, over previous ones.

At 2560x1600, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference between a 6970CF or 580SLI setup if you couldn't see in the case. Once you get into the price point of 580 SLI, you're also in 6970 Tri-Fire territory. Heck for another $60 on top of the cost of 6970CF and $150 less than 580 SLI you can get 3 6950s for $720 which will blow the doors off 580SLI and 6970CF, and if you unlock them....

I'd agree with this statement overall from a strictly performance/price perspective, but there are other factors involved as well.

With Nvidia, you get much better driver support than what AMD offers.. For instance, Nvidia already has had full DX11 multithreading support in it's drivers since the 270xx for instance, while AMD still doesn't have it and BF3 is looming on the horizon. You also get PhysX, which many do not care about, but the OP seems to have an interest in it.

Also if the OP wants to overclock, then Nvidia is loads better in this respect since the Fermi cards are wonderful overclockers that scale well with increased clockspeed, which is the opposite of AMD's Cayman GPUs.

He can potentially blow the doors off of 6970 CF with just a minor overclock if he wants to.

580SLI is a really poor option if you are at 2560x1600 with the current available AMD cards.

From a price performance perspective yes, but price/performance doesn't give you the whole picture as I mentioned above.

There is a reason why Nvidia commands the price point it has for the GTX 580..

 

[adairusmc]

This thread is really making me want to get a 30 inch monitor and Dual GPU's.

A little something to make you want it even more, my fedex arrival today -

Just need one more to complete the eyefinity setup, or sell the samsung 305T now that I have the U3011


I can vouch for two 6970's being excellent for 2560x1600 though. For a while I did try to downgrade to one 6970 but it was horrible (especially in civ5 and large maps).

 

[Nemeth782]

Seems to be a bit of a contentious one... I like the possibility of 6970 tri-fire with unlocked 6950s.

How realistic is the unlocking? Can ALL 6950's be unlocked? What are the odds of me buying 2/3 of them and finding I can't unlock one or more?

I know at release it was more or less a sure thing but haven't looked at it since!

If I can be sure of the unlock (or at least reasonably sure, then find an excuse to RMA one if it won't) 6950s seem the only real choice.

Overclocking, possibly, but I'd rather have something that is powerful enough that I won't need to.

Currently CPU is cooled by a thermochill pa120.3 and swiftech apogee XT, the motherboard is on a water loop too and the plan was always to use the 2nd loop and rad for the motherboard and GPUs, but I never got around to buying a waterblock for the 4870X2 (mostly because I waited and waited for Fermi then the 480 came out and disappointed me, then I decided to spend money on motorbikes instead...)

So I'm willing to do high end water cooling but more because I hate noise than because I want to overclock massively, I find overclocking for benchmarks fun but rarely settle into anything MUCH higher than stock for 24/7

 

[Shmee]

just try to find the reference versions. those are the easiest, and they come with the bios reset switch. they are often harder to find or more expensive. I have 2 oced unlocked xfx 6950's right now with my HP ZR30W. running at only 840 core, and they handle quite nicely.

 

[Silverforce11]

The beauty of 6950s is you don't need to unlock it. The shader unlock offers a 3% perf gain.

All the gain from the unlock is from clock speed, which 6950s can easily OC to beyond 6970 speeds as it is.

If you're a rich bastard who don't care about perf/$$ or perf/watt (In the UK, electricity isn't cheap!), then get 2x gtx580 for the physx support. Otherwise nothing comes close to 2x 6950 for pure bang for buck/watt.

 

[Grooveriding]

Seems to be a bit of a contentious one... I like the possibility of 6970 tri-fire with unlocked 6950s.

How realistic is the unlocking? Can ALL 6950's be unlocked? What are the odds of me buying 2/3 of them and finding I can't unlock one or more?

I know at release it was more or less a sure thing but haven't looked at it since!

If I can be sure of the unlock (or at least reasonably sure, then find an excuse to RMA one if it won't) 6950s seem the only real choice.

Overclocking, possibly, but I'd rather have something that is powerful enough that I won't need to.

Currently CPU is cooled by a thermochill pa120.3 and swiftech apogee XT, the motherboard is on a water loop too and the plan was always to use the 2nd loop and rad for the motherboard and GPUs, but I never got around to buying a waterblock for the 4870X2 (mostly because I waited and waited for Fermi then the 480 came out and disappointed me, then I decided to spend money on motorbikes instead...)

So I'm willing to do high end water cooling but more because I hate noise than because I want to overclock massively, I find overclocking for benchmarks fun but rarely settle into anything MUCH higher than stock for 24/7

You don't really need to unlock them. Just overclocking them to 6970 levels gets you 2-3% off from 6970 performance. If you are set on unlocking, your best bet are the Sapphire Toxic 6950s. You just have to flip the bios switch on those models and they unlock and overclock. I believe they overclock beyond 6970 performance. Those models cost a bit more though, otherwise you want to find reference models with the bios switch if you want that extra few percent from the additional shaders.

At 2560x1600 and above, 3 of those cards are going to give you 580 TRI-SLI performance for $720. Pretty much the best deal going. The 580 is considered the fastest card with only a single-gpu on it, the caveat to that is that it only holds out at 1920x1200 and downwards.

 

[Zanovar]

A little something to make you want it even more, my fedex arrival today -

Just need one more to complete the eyefinity setup, or sell the samsung 305T now that I have the U3011


I can vouch for two 6970's being excellent for 2560x1600 though. For a while I did try to downgrade to one 6970 but it was horrible (especially in civ5 and large maps).

Hi,sorry off topic folks,what case is that?

 

[Zanovar]

Hi,sorry off topic folks,what case is that?

edit nvm obsidian. oops,wheres me coffee