250W (105 constant) SFF PSU capabilities?

[gregom]

Hey all... I have a BioStar iDEQ 200N w/nForce 2 chipset. I'm running an AMD Athlon XP 3000+ (not O/C), 1 GB (two 512 MB sticks) Kingston PC-2700 RAM, and a GeForce 6800 GT (256 MB). I want to know if you experts who knows about power usage and such think my PSU can handle this stuff plus two Hitachi 400 GB P-ATA HDD's and a WD 250 GB P-ATA drive. The PSU claims 105W contant power, 250W MAX. I'm not sure how much current these hard drives require under full load, but if anyone knows of a review where I can get this info i'd be greatly appreciative. I want to know if it can handle all these drives?

I've current got one of the Hitachi 400 gigs in and the 250 W. It seems to be doing just fine so far. Previous when I tried this with my 200W (65W constant) the system would usually shut down during boot and reboot. If it made it into Windows, it would reboot at random points during the start-up process. On a few occasions I managed to make it into a game before it froze just after starting it.

So think I can do this? Or should I just keep the 400 GB in my external? I'd prefer all the drives in my SFF of course.

TIA

 

[Jimmah]

Do you really want to gamble? I wouldn't trust it as-is, let alone with more power suckage.

 

[Some1ne]

I'd say no...you're shoving components that wouldn't be out of place in a modern desktop in a SFF case and then trying to power them with a PSU that would have been barely adequate, at best, a few years ago. If you need such a robust system, you may want to reconsider the whole SFF thing, or at least get a better PSU. 105W continuous is just barely enough to run an incandescent lamp, and I don't see how there's any hope of it powering an Athlon 3000+ and a 6800 GT. The HDD's on the other hand require comparatively little juice...if you replaced the processor with a mobile Athlon chip (or downclocked it to 500 MHz and severely dropped the voltage), and the graphics with a GF2 or something, you could probably run with those drives on that PSU no problem. Otherwise I don't think it's remotely possible to run that setup on a PSU that can only sustain 105W.

 

[gregom]

What are the risks of trying it? Killing the PSU? Obviously system instability... I don't think there are any larger PSU's I can get for this SFF. Perhaps I should consider geting back to a full-size PC. But I really love the small factor. I'm aware of a slightly larger SFF system but can take a full size PSU. I think that may be my best option.

Does anyone know how much power each of these devices will consume under load? I've been looking around (googling things) but have only found idle requirements. For instance the Hitachi 400 gig drives use 9 watts during idle.

I'm not sure what the GF6800 uses, under idle or load. Same goes for the processor. Either way... system seems to be running fine as it stands now. Am I taxing my PSU? Possibly causing damage to it over time?

Thanks for your help guys...

 

[Slugbait]

With your current config, run Prime95's torture test for a couple of hours. Then rip 40 albums, dump them all into RazorLAME and encode them in VBR 128-224. 3DMark2K5 a few times...without reboots. Check your temps and fan speeds regularly. If your system is perfectly stable after this, give it a shot if you want...but I think you're pushing your luck.

 

[Some1ne]

Instability is one risk, killing the PSU another, the most serious risk (and also least likely) is that the dying PSU will fry your other components when it goes. I'd recommend getting something like SpeedFan and checking the voltages it is putting out. If things look flaky, definately consider getting a larger PSU.

Awhile ago somebody linked to a webpage that would let you select system components, and it would compute the power for each one, as well as the power for the total system. I don't know how much juice and idling CPU/GPU takes, but here's a decent article where the measure the power used by a number of different systems:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article265-page1.html

...the 2500+ Athlon system idles at 73W, although I'm pretty sure they used a much smaller graphics card than a 6800GT in that test. Surprisingly enough though, under load it only jumps to about 82W. Given that you have a 3000+, your consumption is probably a bit higher, and with the extra drives you're probably close to 100W, if not more. Also, when they added a 6800GT to the system, they measures an additional 36W of power consumption at idle, so with that plus your drives I'd say you're definately exceeding the PSU's rated sustained wattage, even at idle, which probably means that you're kind of on the razor's edge...your PSU is under heavy stress, and eventually something is probably going to give, and what happens at that point will depend of the quality of the PSU...either it will take itself out of commission, or it will decide to take the whole system out with it.

 

[gregom]

I suppose I can use my BIOS to check the voltages. I believe there is some Windows software I can use to check it as well. I'll check the readings.

I did try all 3 drives with the 200W PSU. It kept rebooting itself. The PSU still works just fine, and was running on one drive for the past 2 months. So I think the PSU has some built-in safety feature preventing overload. None of my hardware seems to have been damaged, and all drives work fine. The upgrade to the 250W PSU is the same make and design of the 200W. I'm assuming it will have a similar reaction to too much power being required.

I think i'm going to try it and see what happens. The worse thing would be killing the PSU or some components. I'm willing to risk it.

I'll try it and get back to you all.

 

[gregom]

Ok well I installed the other 400 gig drive... So now I have two of them running, and the 250. So far everything seems to work. Bootup was a bit slow, but I think thats because of the additional hard drive. I also have a USB 2.0 connected hard drive that the BIOS is detecting, so I'm sure that slows the process as well.

I did find a charge from storagereview.net that showed my 400 gig drives power consumption. And a drive very similar to my WD 250 Gig. Under full load it appears, if all 3 drives were going, I'd be sucking near 37 watts. And in that type of event, I would not be playing games. So the GF6800 wouldnt be drawing a whole lot. Here's a pic of the chart...

http://www.storagereview.com/benchimages/power_usage.png


I took two pics of my screen while in the BIOS and during boot. I don't really know anything about voltage requirments and what is normal, but for those of you that do... take a look at my pics. This is with all 3 drives in the system.

http://66.246.170.146/Other/bios.jpg

http://66.246.170.146/Other/post.jpg


I also tried a few games, HL2, Far Cry, America's Army... all ran without any problems.

So do you think I'll be okay? Or should I remove the extra 400 and stick it back in the external before I create some problems?

Thanks for your advice/info guys... very helpful.


EDIT: Have to click the links for the pics. These forums dont use PHP code or HTML code in posts it seems... cant post pics directly in page.

 

[Some1ne]

It looks like it's doing okay, your voltages are all within spec, although it's curious that there's no +5V reported. At any rate, as long as it's mostly idle most of the time, it seems like it'll be okay.

I do recommend upgrading to a bigger PSU if/when they release one that fits your SFF case though.

 

[gregom]

This is the biggest they offer for this unit. It came with a 200W! I'm considering upgrading to the Aspire SFF I think it is. Slightly bigger, and takes a full size PSU. If I do that i'm going to upgrade to a 64bit processor, 2gigs of RAM, probably 3x 500 GB Hitachi's too while i'm at it. Not sure about the video card yet... keeps changing rapidly.

Thanks for your help... i'll post if I have any issues. But I'll probably just put the 400 back in the external if any issues arise.

 

[Some1ne]

This is the biggest they offer for this unit. It came with a 200W!

Right, that's why I said if/when, I just meant keep an eye out in the future. Good luck.

 

[Zepper]

I think some companies have started making upgraded PSUs for some of the SFF cases - Shuttle for sure, but IDK about others. If one really needs a full powered system, one shouldn't be even thinking about SFF.

.bh.

 

[gregom]

Well the strange thing is the computer has had more than enouh power the past few years. I never had any problems until I started sticking 400 gig drives in. I've had the 250, and a 100 gig drive in for over a year and never had any problems. Its been able to handle all the games i threw at it without failures.

So I dunno....

But... i've completely screwed my system now. i'm gonna make a new thread for that, because its different problem than this here, and is not related to the PSU. I'm on my absolute last resort now, if that doesnt work ill make a new thread asking for help. Which is something i dont do often, if ever. I usually manage to figure it out on my own. But everyone needs help sometimes...