$250K is not enough.

[Gonad the Barbarian]

House passes medical malpractice bill

This pain and suffering limit is absurdley low. If their has to be a limit, it should at least be reasonable, and take into account the worst case scenerio for a potential victim. $250K is just not that much money, especially considering just how much suffering it is expected to compensate. If you NEEDLESSLY lost a limb, your sight, your ability to walk, your cognitive ability, a loved one, would you be satisfied with $250K? I agree something needs to be done about this problem, but there are much better solutions. How about the AMA suspending the bad-apple doctors out there that habitually make mistakes and get sued? Or insurance companies actually charging each doctor based on their individual risk and record? Or maybe even banning the award of punitive damages in malpractice cases? We are trading one problem for two with this bill. We'll probably lower the cost of malpractice insurance, but we'll be cheating those who have valid malpractice cases out of proper compensation and allowing the medical and insurance industries to continue their behavior that helped get us all into this situation in the first place.

 

[EngenZerO]

heh, I thought you were talking about Howard Stern Show and the new ppv they are trying to get organized (involving an act that most men would shutter to think).

engen

 

[Moonbeam]

Welcome to corporate America. A small percent of doctors account for a large percent of claims, but we can't have getting rid of poor doctors. Caveat emptor. Poor teachers, though, should be fired because unions protect them. I guess unions are the kind of insurance you buy when you can't buy enough politicians.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Welcome to corporate America. A small percent of doctors account for a large percent of claims, but we can't have getting rid of poor doctors. Caveat emptor. Poor teachers, though, should be fired because unions protect them. I guess unions are the kind of insurance you buy when you can't buy enough politicians.

The government forces Dr.'s & hospitalt to accept medicare/medicaide, the insurance companies force them to accept their payment schedule, people call Dr's up @ 3:00am & demand treatment/prescriptions, etc, etc...

Pain & suffering is in addition to lost wages, etc, continued treatment, therapy, corrective surgery, it's reasonable ($250K for pain & suffering alone).

Fact is, the way the legal system is set up, we'll still have critical shortages of trauma surgeons & Obstertics Dr's.

Local (state) agencies regulate these folk's licenses & ability to practice, just call your congressman/woman & demand tighter control of these folks...

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
House passes medical malpractice bill

This pain and suffering limit is absurdley low. If their has to be a limit, it should at least be reasonable, and take into account the worst case scenerio for a potential victim. $250K is just not that much money, especially considering just how much suffering it is expected to compensate. If you NEEDLESSLY lost a limb, your sight, your ability to walk, your cognitive ability, a loved one, would you be satisfied with $250K? I agree something needs to be done about this problem, but there are much better solutions. How about the AMA suspending the bad-apple doctors out there that habitually make mistakes and get sued? Or insurance companies actually charging each doctor based on their individual risk and record? Or maybe even banning the award of punitive damages in malpractice cases? We are trading one problem for two with this bill. We'll probably lower the cost of malpractice insurance, but we'll be cheating those who have valid malpractice cases out of proper compensation and allowing the medical and insurance industries to continue their behavior that helped get us all into this situation in the first place.

I wouldn't be satisfied with any amount...money can't replace what you listed.

 

[Ferocious]

I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

The problem is that people don't know what's reasonable.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

Juries comprised of elderly, poorly educated white trash are not sophisticated enough to consider the effect of the award they're giving on the medical system & society in general. They see someone in a wheelchair, or an empty seat & start writing a check with someone else's checkbook...

 

[QTPie]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.
Not decided by some BUSH law.

The problem is there are too many stupid jurors out there.
EDIT: I agree that $250K is nothing for some cases. I wish the number could be higher.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
House passes medical malpractice bill

This pain and suffering limit is absurdley low. If their has to be a limit, it should at least be reasonable, and take into account the worst case scenerio for a potential victim. $250K is just not that much money, especially considering just how much suffering it is expected to compensate. If you NEEDLESSLY lost a limb, your sight, your ability to walk, your cognitive ability, a loved one, would you be satisfied with $250K? I agree something needs to be done about this problem, but there are much better solutions. How about the AMA suspending the bad-apple doctors out there that habitually make mistakes and get sued? Or insurance companies actually charging each doctor based on their individual risk and record? Or maybe even banning the award of punitive damages in malpractice cases? We are trading one problem for two with this bill. We'll probably lower the cost of malpractice insurance, but we'll be cheating those who have valid malpractice cases out of proper compensation and allowing the medical and insurance industries to continue their behavior that helped get us all into this situation in the first place.

Maybe you should take a Legal class and understand the difference between damages and pain and suffering. The loss of a limb or vision would account for actual damages. You would be able to claim any real and substantial differences that will impact your life in a negative way including the loss of wages. Pain and suffering damages account for nothing more than having to feel pain. They are generally bullshit and $250k is more than enough for any pain you will feel for getting hurt. Sh!t happens in life.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

The problem is that people don't know what's reasonable.

Exactly. when it comes to money, most people have no fricking clue, expecilay when it comes to "pain and suffering". Doctors try and save lives. just like everything else in the world, mistakes are made. There really isn't any other way to say it. I feel for the victims and their families, I really do. But recieving a reward of a hundred million helps no one, and only hurts.

Granted 250k is to low though. maybe 1-2million would be the right range. and remember, this is only the PAIN AND SUFFERING part of the suit. not medical bills for care, and other such things. 250k will get you into a comfy home for the rest of your life.

Something has to be done, and this is a step in the right direction. the medical comunity needs major reform.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

Jurors and fair can't be used in the same sentence when it comes to deciding on damages.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

All you saying pain and suffering claims are bullsh1t, say you had a job that paid well and you loved doing it, but due to a medical mistake can no longer work that job or any other, or do the hobbies you enjoyed doing, or maybe even day-today stuff you take for granted like dressing or feeding yourself, all the while suffering chronic pain, you would be perfectly content if you were just awarded the lost wages from your job and your medical bills?

 

[Conky]

I don't understand why everybody blaims the lawyers when it's the insurance companies who are driving up the prices. Insurance companies are posting record profits and nobody seems to mind.

If I go into surgury to have a cancerous lung removed and the nitwit surgeon instead removes my healthy lung I want more than $250K and I don't care what the insurance company has to pay.

Insurance companies are evil. Pawning it off on the legal system and lawyers is just what the insurance companies want you to think.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Ferocious
I'd still rather have the PEOPLE decide what is fair. Let the jurors decide what is reasonable.

Not decided by some BUSH law.

Juries comprised of elderly, poorly educated white trash are not sophisticated enough to consider the effect of the award they're giving on the medical system & society in general. They see someone in a wheelchair, or an empty seat & start writing a check with someone else's checkbook...

Juries are not supposed to consider those things anyway, only the case & facts at hand. But I'll certainly give you this, too many juries in all aspects of the judicial system seem to be swayed more by emotion than the things they are supposed to consider.

 

[Queasy]

I think there should be a cap on pain & suffering/punitive damages but I don't think $250k is enough. Should be between $500k and $1 mil. $250k is just too small when you consider that half of that will end up taken by the gov't as taxes.

 

[ElFenix]

juries are too easily manipulated to not have a cap.

after the taxes and fees the award would be in the neighborhood of $70K i bet

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
All you saying pain and suffering claims are bullsh1t, say you had a job that paid well and you loved doing it, but due to a medical mistake can no longer work that job or any other, or do the hobbies you enjoyed doing, or maybe even day-today stuff you take for granted like dressing or feeding yourself, all the while suffering chronic pain, you would be perfectly content if you were just awarded the lost wages from your job and your medical bills?

If you aren't willing to accept the risks of a surgery do not have the surgury. Doctors are humans, they make mistakes but you went to them for help. To accept medical help you must be willing to take the risks of that medical help or you SHOULD NOT SEEK IT. Life isn't fair, and you shouldn't expect perfection EVER. Life is full of risks and you must assume the consequences of those risks when you make any decision including the choice to live.

 

[StageLeft]

I think it's also too low. Something had to be done. Perhaps guidelines per situation like $50k for a snapped limb or whatever )) but there are things that $250k can't even begin to cover.

 

[HendrixFan]

Wow, everyone here is slamming jurors. If you can trust a juror to decide whether or not someone deserves life or death, surely you can trust them with money right?

I mean millions of dollars is nothing compared to the responsiblity of determining whether or not someone lives or dies.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Queasy
I think there should be a cap on pain & suffering/punitive damages but I don't think $250k is enough. Should be between $500k and $1 mil. $250k is just too small when you consider that half of that will end up taken by the gov't as taxes.

These awards aren't taxed.

 

[calpha]

I've got two sides of the story.........

I dont' think there should be a cap......but I dont' know a solution either. My father started a medical practice later in life as a career change......he wetn back to school to get his degree when he was in his forties. After his schooling he was a little over 6 figures in debt...and got that paid down some by working for others.

The main reason for the two-three year delay in him opening his own practice...wasn't just the cost of a lease somewhere, and necessary supplies--tables---etc----but the extremely large premium required for malpractice was another....wish I had a figure.

My wife's Gyno-Obstetrician-Pediatric is dropping the OCBGYN (wahter the hell the acro is) and just focusing on Pediatric b/c he can't afford all of the premiums.

lastly----a story about mal-practice.
My aunt who's in her late thirties had a cancerous tumor removed from her colon when she was 35. Prior to that---she'd been going to the same gastro specialist for three years b/c of severe digestive problems. He had diagnosed her with IBD (irritable bowel syndrome), and had ordered her to a special diet----and regular checkups.

For some reason...during that time---he never referred her to do a colonoscopy. ANd her symtpoms were severe. Loss of skin coloration, extreme loss of weight......frequent diahrea......as well as an inability (espeially in the last year and a half) to eat anything other then rice without a reaction.

After three years of going to the same MD and gastro specialist----she went to another center for a consult----and they ordered a colonoscopy. They got the results on a Friday----and she was in emergency surgery on sunday...just two days later. THe surgeon estimated that she was a matter of hours away from the colon rupturing from teh extreme size of the tumor---and upon removal--the surgeon estimated by the size of the tumor---it had been present for 4-6 years. During the surgery---they also removed 14 lymph nodes that were cancerous. A few months later....they also found a spot on her liver.

Oncology was recommending her to go to Radiation/Chemo---but openly told her to expect around 5 years at best if they can beat it into remission----she opted to go a different approach by a doctor in Atlanta---and was out of work for a year doing the treatment.....not to mention the $5k a month it cost out of pocket (no insurance covered that treatment).

Turns out----not less then a year later, there was an article I read in Good Housekeeping---which esposed the normal symptoms of colon cancer---to which she during the last two years befor surgery----had all of them----100%.

I don't know the status----I know these type things take a long time to work out----but she did turn all mediccal information over to the atttorney after the surgeon asked her what treatment had she been seeking (post op) and she told her she was going to a gastro-doc for the past three years. The surgeon was shocked----she'd thought she was avoiding medical care-----and was in disbelief that she was never in that time given a colonoscopy. They aslo could tell that the cancer had only begun spreading in the past year.

Now---if it turns out that the doctor was at fault----and should have under proper diagnosis----caught the cancer by way of standard diagnosis detrminations much earlier---I don't think that she should only be given a max of 250K. That's not a limb...a leg----or eyesight.

That's her life.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
House passes medical malpractice bill

This pain and suffering limit is absurdley low. If their has to be a limit, it should at least be reasonable, and take into account the worst case scenerio for a potential victim. $250K is just not that much money, especially considering just how much suffering it is expected to compensate. If you NEEDLESSLY lost a limb, your sight, your ability to walk, your cognitive ability, a loved one, would you be satisfied with $250K? I agree something needs to be done about this problem, but there are much better solutions. How about the AMA suspending the bad-apple doctors out there that habitually make mistakes and get sued? Or insurance companies actually charging each doctor based on their individual risk and record? Or maybe even banning the award of punitive damages in malpractice cases? We are trading one problem for two with this bill. We'll probably lower the cost of malpractice insurance, but we'll be cheating those who have valid malpractice cases out of proper compensation and allowing the medical and insurance industries to continue their behavior that helped get us all into this situation in the first place.

problem is Punitive is where the big damages are anyway. i'm not sure why you think pain and suffering is too small.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: calpha
I've got two sides of the story.........

I dont' think there should be a cap......but I dont' know a solution either. My father started a medical practice later in life as a career change......he wetn back to school to get his degree when he was in his forties. After his schooling he was a little over 6 figures in debt...and got that paid down some by working for others.

The main reason for the two-three year delay in him opening his own practice...wasn't just the cost of a lease somewhere, and necessary supplies--tables---etc----but the extremely large premium required for malpractice was another....wish I had a figure.

My wife's Gyno-Obstetrician-Pediatric is dropping the OCBGYN (wahter the hell the acro is) and just focusing on Pediatric b/c he can't afford all of the premiums.

lastly----a story about mal-practice.
My aunt who's in her late thirties had a cancerous tumor removed from her colon when she was 35. Prior to that---she'd been going to the same gastro specialist for three years b/c of severe digestive problems. He had diagnosed her with IBD (irritable bowel syndrome), and had ordered her to a special diet----and regular checkups.

For some reason...during that time---he never referred her to do a colonoscopy. ANd her symtpoms were severe. Loss of skin coloration, extreme loss of weight......frequent diahrea......as well as an inability (espeially in the last year and a half) to eat anything other then rice without a reaction.

After three years of going to the same MD and gastro specialist----she went to another center for a consult----and they ordered a colonoscopy. They got the results on a Friday----and she was in emergency surgery on sunday...just two days later. THe surgeon estimated that she was a matter of hours away from the colon rupturing from teh extreme size of the tumor---and upon removal--the surgeon estimated by the size of the tumor---it had been present for 4-6 years. During the surgery---they also removed 14 lymph nodes that were cancerous. A few months later....they also found a spot on her liver.

Oncology was recommending her to go to Radiation/Chemo---but openly told her to expect around 5 years at best if they can beat it into remission----she opted to go a different approach by a doctor in Atlanta---and was out of work for a year doing the treatment.....not to mention the $5k a month it cost out of pocket (no insurance covered that treatment).

Turns out----not less then a year later, there was an article I read in Good Housekeeping---which esposed the normal symptoms of colon cancer---to which she during the last two years befor surgery----had all of them----100%.

I don't know the status----I know these type things take a long time to work out----but she did turn all mediccal information over to the atttorney after the surgeon asked her what treatment had she been seeking (post op) and she told her she was going to a gastro-doc for the past three years. The surgeon was shocked----she'd thought she was avoiding medical care-----and was in disbelief that she was never in that time given a colonoscopy. They aslo could tell that the cancer had only begun spreading in the past year.

Now---if it turns out that the doctor was at fault----and should have under proper diagnosis----caught the cancer by way of standard diagnosis detrminations much earlier---I don't think that she should only be given a max of 250K. That's not a limb...a leg----or eyesight.

That's her life.

all my ob-gyn clients are talking about giving up at least obstetrics.

oh btw, the doctors aren't for this. to them this is just a political move with no real reprucussions. as i said in post just before the largest judgements are for PUNITIVE damages anyway. Punitive won't change will still be outrageous, hence malpractice premiums really won't go down that much.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
All you saying pain and suffering claims are bullsh1t, say you had a job that paid well and you loved doing it, but due to a medical mistake can no longer work that job or any other, or do the hobbies you enjoyed doing, or maybe even day-today stuff you take for granted like dressing or feeding yourself, all the while suffering chronic pain, you would be perfectly content if you were just awarded the lost wages from your job and your medical bills?

If you aren't willing to accept the risks of a surgery do not have the surgury. Doctors are humans, they make mistakes but you went to them for help. To accept medical help you must be willing to take the risks of that medical help or you SHOULD NOT SEEK IT. Life isn't fair, and you shouldn't expect perfection EVER. Life is full of risks and you must assume the consequences of those risks when you make any decision including the choice to live.

WTF kind of thinking is that? Doctor's have a responsibility to do their job just like everyone else. If they screw up, they should be held responsible. If you go to McDonald's and they get your order wrong, are they not responsible because you decided to go there? Your reasoning is the most assinine thing I've ever seen.