2500k @ 4.5GHz (Any need to upgrade?)

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Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
Here are some generational benchmarks showing how well new i7's compare to old ones:

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^This is a cherry picked game benchmark to show performance differences when Skylake is allowed to stretch its legs.

Skylake CPUs are beastly, but in a vast majority of gaming cases, the performance difference will be more like this:

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Bear in mind that these are not normalized for clockspeed, and that since Sandy Bridge, stock clocks have gone up. Skylake aside, max overclock has also gone down, though as far as I can tell, Skylake generally overclocks nearly as well as Sandy does.

You also get greatly improved integrated graphics:

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Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
Decently overclocked 2500k is in a weird spot. It's not bad. But in CPU limited games it will show up as a bottleneck if you have a sufficiently fast GPU. I definitely feel the CPU bottleneck in Fallout 4 these days.

If you upgrade this, then you have to do mobo and RAM too so at that point its a new build.

Boils down to whether you have the budget for a whole new build or not.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Decently overclocked 2500k is in a weird spot. It's not bad. But in CPU limited games it will show up as a bottleneck if you have a sufficiently fast GPU. I definitely feel the CPU bottleneck in Fallout 4 these days.

If you upgrade this, then you have to do mobo and RAM too so at that point its a new build.

Boils down to whether you have the budget for a whole new build or not.
yeah in some cases the IPC deficit will hurt it a little and others the lack of HT can hurt it some. for most games its fine though which makes it hard to justify the upgrade for some people. the better the gpu, the more worthwhile the cpu upgrade will be though.
 

Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
1,409
65
91
After seeing Toyota's results on Watch Dogs I done some testing of my own with the i5 2500k@4.5 and 980ti. Even at 1440p there definitely seems to be a bottleneck. I have dips well below 60, sometimes into the 30's, and dropping the resolution all the way down to 720p does nothing to change it. In fact, the fps seem to very close to each other at both resolutions.

I suspected a bottleneck with the i5 2500k before but wasn't certain at 1440p. But now, it seems to be pretty clear-cut.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
After seeing Toyota's results on Watch Dogs I done some testing of my own with the i5 2500k@4.5 and 980ti. Even at 1440p there definitely seems to be a bottleneck. I have dips well below 60, sometimes into the 30's, and dropping the resolution all the way down to 720p does nothing to change it. In fact, the fps seem to very close to each other at both resolutions.

I suspected a bottleneck with the i5 2500k before but wasn't certain at 1440p. But now, it seems to be pretty clear-cut.

I thought Sleeping Dogs was classed as a poorly optimized console port? (Though 6 threads probably wreaks havok on an i5 no matter the load)
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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I thought Sleeping Dogs was classed as a poorly optimized console port? (Though 6 threads probably wreaks havok on an i5 no matter the load)
Sleeping Dogs? we are talking about Watch Dogs and many games are "poorly optimized" in one way or another. it is what it is so sometimes it takes a brute force hardware approach to get the job done.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
It depends on what you want and how much money you got. So, what do you want and how much money you got?
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,068
423
126
some of these differences are pretty significant from a 2500K OC to a 6700K OC http://pclab.pl/art65154-28.html

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if you are investing a lot of money on a 980 TI I think it makes perfect sense to replace the 2500K OC with Skylake.
if you are using less capable VGAs, maybe not so much, but you could still see a gain.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Sleeping Dogs? we are talking about Watch Dogs and many games are "poorly optimized" in one way or another. it is what it is so sometimes it takes a brute force hardware approach to get the job done.

Ya, but this thread isn't about i7 6700K Skylake vs. i5 2500K. As I already mentioned before you missed my post - Watch Dogs runs like garbage on almost everything besides higher end cards like the 980Ti. You then proceeded to post a bunch of benchmarks with a 980Ti which doesn't apply to the OP so what was the point of that? Are you trying to suggest that if we maxed out graphics sliders and then averaged the FPS in the entire game from start to finish in GTA V, The Witcher 3, Watch Dogs that an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz with a 980Ti @ 1.5Ghz would destroy an i7 6700K @ 4.8Ghz with an R9 270X CF @1440P? Even if you drop a 290/970 in there, 980Ti OC will still easily. Ya, sure I can find spots where there are dips but similarly a 980Ti OC is as fast as 970 SLI and there are many games that are going to be GPU limited by far.

Will a faster CPU improve the OP's performance? Of course, but the OP first had 6950s CF in his sig and now has 2x270X CF, GPUs still well below a GTX980Ti. There is no way he should be upgrading his CPU platform if the choice is CPU vs. GPU, when he would be better off grabbing a $235 R9 390 (selling off those 270Xs) or going all the way up to a 980Ti. You can link 10 games where the i7 4770K/6700K destroys an i5 2500K in minimum FPS and I'll link 95 games at 1440P where a 980Ti with an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz would wipe the floor with an i7 6700K @ 4.8Ghz and a GTX970. That's the point. It's about balance and budgets.

I mean what if the OP doesn't play Watch Dogs or Crysis 3 or GTA V? In that case, that's 3 major games that have issues with an i5 that are completely out of the picture. What about 95% of all PC games that would benefit greatly from the 390 or 980Ti over his 270Xs?

Also, the OP can also consider grabbing a used 2600K and that provides a major boost in some of those games you mentioned earlier.

Trying to turn the entire thread to point out that a 2500K @ 4.5Ghz is a bottleneck misses the entire point of this thread. Every single components in any PC is a limiting component - the question is which one is the most limiting, not whether a particular CPU or GPU is limiting performance.

Just imagine so many other games where an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz with a 980Ti would absolutely crush an i7 4770K/6700K @ 4.8Ghz with any lesser GPU - there are going to be 100s of those games. Unless the OP can afford both a platform upgrade + a $600 GPU upgrade, using a handful of games to show that a 2500K is a major bottleneck is just stating the obvious but it doesn't get to the bottom of the main issue here -- 270Xs CF @ 1440P gaming are BY FAR the bigger bottleneck, not his 2500K OC.

You seem to be overly sensitive to FPS drops as you noted before you MUST have 60 fps VSYNCed at all times. Since the OP was using HD6950s @ 1080P/1440P and now R9 270Xs in CF, he automatically doesn't even fall into your must have at least 60 fps minimums at all times standards. For someone like him, upgrading his GPU and possibly substituting the 2500K to a 2600K is the way to go. Moving from an i5 2500K OC to an i7 6700K while keeping R9 270Xs for 1440P is just $ wasted.

Look at the title of the thread again: "2500k @ 4.5GHz (Any need to upgrade?)"

The OP has R9 270X CF and he states that he plays up to 1440P. If we look at the overall context, the answer is a definitive NO. Unless the OP gets a much faster GPU such a R9 390 or even 980Ti, he should not upgrade his CPU platform. You use a Watch Dogs example where 2500K OC with a 980Ti would drop well below 60 fps minimums but ignore games where spending $600 on an i7 6700K platform + 16GB DDR4 would do absolute jack with a pair of 270Xs. The OP would be better off finding a used 2600K, dumping his 2500K and getting a 980Ti in that case.

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toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
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Ya, but this thread isn't about i7 6700K Skylake vs. i5 2500K. As I already mentioned before you missed my post - Watch Dogs runs like garbage on almost everything besides higher end cards like the 980Ti. You then proceeded to post a bunch of benchmarks with a 980Ti which doesn't apply to the OP so what was the point of that? Are you trying to suggest that if we maxed out graphics sliders and then averaged the FPS in the entire game from start to finish in GTA V, The Witcher 3, Watch Dogs that an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz with a 980Ti @ 1.5Ghz would destroy an i7 6700K @ 4.8Ghz with an R9 270X CF @1440P? Even if you drop a 290/970 in there, 980Ti OC will still easily. Ya, sure I can find spots where there are dips but similarly a 980Ti OC is as fast as 970 SLI and there are many games that are going to be GPU limited by far.

Will a faster CPU improve the OP's performance? Of course, but the OP first had 6950s CF in his sig and now has 2x270X CF, GPUs still well below a GTX980Ti. There is no way he should be upgrading his CPU platform if the choice is CPU vs. GPU, when he would be better off grabbing a $235 R9 390 (selling off those 270Xs) or going all the way up to a 980Ti. You can link 10 games where the i7 4770K/6700K destroys an i5 2500K in minimum FPS and I'll link 95 games at 1440P where a 980Ti with an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz would wipe the floor with an i7 6700K @ 4.8Ghz and a GTX970. That's the point. It's about balance and budgets.

I mean what if the OP doesn't play Watch Dogs or Crysis 3 or GTA V? In that case, that's 3 major games that have issues with an i5 that are completely out of the picture. What about 95% of all PC games that would benefit greatly from the 390 or 980Ti over his 270Xs?

Also, the OP can also consider grabbing a used 2600K and that provides a major boost in some of those games you mentioned earlier.

Trying to turn the entire thread to point out that a 2500K @ 4.5Ghz is a bottleneck misses the entire point of this thread. Every single components in any PC is a limiting component - the question is which one is the most limiting, not whether a particular CPU or GPU is limiting performance.

Just imagine so many other games where an i5 2500K @ 4.5Ghz with a 980Ti would absolutely crush an i7 4770K/6700K @ 4.8Ghz with any lesser GPU - there are going to be 100s of those games. Unless the OP can afford both a platform upgrade + a $600 GPU upgrade, using a handful of games to show that a 2500K is a major bottleneck is just stating the obvious but it doesn't get to the bottom of the main issue here -- 270Xs CF @ 1440P gaming are BY FAR the bigger bottleneck, not his 2500K OC.

You seem to be overly sensitive to FPS drops as you noted before you MUST have 60 fps VSYNCed at all times. Since the OP was using HD6950s @ 1080P/1440P and now R9 270Xs in CF, he automatically doesn't even fall into your must have at least 60 fps minimums at all times standards. For someone like him, upgrading his GPU and possibly substituting the 2500K to a 2600K is the way to go. Moving from an i5 2500K OC to an i7 6700K while keeping R9 270Xs for 1440P is just $ wasted.

Look at the title of the thread again.

"2500k @ 4.5GHz (Any need to upgrade?)"

The OP has R9 270X CF and has states that he plays up to 1440P. The answer is a definitive NO. Unless the OP gets a much faster GPU such as R9 390 or even 980Ti, he should not upgrade his CPU.
lol you dont need to keep making long posts for no reason. the OP can do whatever he wants to do and I never said he needed to upgrade.

AGAIN all I have said is that I dont need to ask people if I should upgrade and that I know a 2500k would not cut it for ME personally.
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
Consider hexa core if you go full upgrade. I run my 5930K @ 3.7GHz all cores with stock 2133MHz RAM (which didn't seem to matter at the time) and I never have to worry about any CPU bottleneck at all, now or quite a while into the future at 1200p. If you want solid 60FPS with minimal dips then yes upgrade.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,867
699
136
watchdogs with GTX970 max details SMAA+ other games
2500k vs 6700K 4.5Ghz
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37684080&postcount=4726

Watchdogs 6700K HT ON/OFF with 4.6Ghz cpu
Watch dogs HT OFF
Fraps FPS Avg: 77.327 - Min: 59 - Max: 93
Frametimes fps
http://abload.de/img/watchdogswojtv.jpg
Watch dogs HT ON
Fraps FPS Avg: 84.063 - Min: 73 - Max: 93
Frametimes fps
http://abload.de/img/watchdogspfk0v.jpg

Watchdogs 6700k 2.5Ghz HT scalling
screenshot at same place
HT ON 72Fps http://abload.de/img/watch_dogs_2015_09_19otop5.png
HT OFF 57FPs http://abload.de/img/watch_dogs_2015_09_19vcpt8.png

Test scene.recorded with cpu at 2.5Ghz HToff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4aEWP2pAEE

1920x1080 HT ON
Fraps Log Avg: 69.327 - Min: 51 - Max: 93
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1920hton0upwz.jpg

1650x1080 HT ON
Fraps Log Avg: 71.094 - Min: 51 - Max: 102
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1650htonafpsj.jpg

1024x768 HT ON
Fraps Log Avg: 72.991 - Min: 49 - Max: 131
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1024htonmnqp3.jpg


1920x1080 HT OFF
Fraps Log Avg: 51.184 - Min: 33 - Max: 84
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1920htoffaqrbj.jpg

1650x1080 HT OFF
Fraps Log Avg: 51.502 - Min: 33 - Max: 88
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1650htoffsyr1y.jpg

1024x768 HT OFF
Fraps Log Avg: 50.756 - Min: 33 - Max: 88
Frametimes and comparable Fps http://abload.de/img/1024htoffxrq65.jpg

whole test here http://www.overclock.net/t/1578480/i5-2500k-4-5ghz-vs-6700k-4-5ghz-in-games/10#post_24549601
and here
http://www.overclock.net/t/1578480/i5-2500k-4-5ghz-vs-6700k-4-5ghz-in-games#post_24549583

btw skylake have improved HT=better HT scalling in games vs older architectures.
 
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Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
Consider hexa core if you go full upgrade. I run my 5930K @ 3.7GHz all cores with stock 2133MHz RAM (which didn't seem to matter at the time) and I never have to worry about any CPU bottleneck at all, now or quite a while into the future at 1200p. If you want solid 60FPS with minimal dips then yes upgrade.

That's not true, 3.7Ghz will give you a single threaded bottleneck faster then a quad core running at 4.7Ghz. Your really only better off in games if they all start needing 6 cores, and even then normally it's still bottlenecked by one thread that runs flat out and needs all the single threaded performance you've got.

I too am on a i2500K and just can't justify upgrading yet. You've got either Skylake which still isn't that much faster, or one of the 5xxx cpu's which give you 2 extra cores, but is slower then skylake single threaded, and costs a fortune (more expensive cpu, mb, 4 sticks of DDR4 memory).
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,748
2,106
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That's not true, 3.7Ghz will give you a single threaded bottleneck faster then a quad core running at 4.7Ghz. Your really only better off in games if they all start needing 6 cores, and even then normally it's still bottlenecked by one thread that runs flat out and needs all the single threaded performance you've got.

I too am on a i2500K and just can't justify upgrading yet. You've got either Skylake which still isn't that much faster, or one of the 5xxx cpu's which give you 2 extra cores, but is slower then skylake single threaded, and costs a fortune (more expensive cpu, mb, 4 sticks of DDR4 memory).

. . And someone said "How much money you want to spend?" and "How much money you got?"

You can HAVE the money, but may not be eager to spend it yet. I've become very deliberate in my parts-purchases.

More than that -- it takes time and effort to OC and configure any new machine. You have your software set up just so. Even with SYSPREP or some other transfer method, you're not entirely sure what you'll run into. I've seen myself becoming too eager to upgrade on a system that continues to experience any kind of glitch. With the Sandy and Ivy Bridgers we have here, everything works so perfectly -- the entire network -- the next change-out will at least be months away -- maybe longer.

I shouldn't wait too much longer, though. Skylake is a noticeable improvement over SB and IB. I could be glad that I skipped Devils Canyon or Haswell-E.

That's one side of the coin. The other side: like I said, for my needs and whims, these SB i7's just don't leave me wanting much.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
This is wrong. A slow CPU may find it hard to get 30 FPS while a fast one may cross 60 FPS.

Depends on the game and situation.

It's not wrong at all. I don't think you understood what he said.

Personally I agree with RS. With this GPU and the resolution he's running, he'd be much better served by a GPU upgrade.
 

JimmiG

Platinum Member
Feb 24, 2005
2,024
112
106
Here are some generational benchmarks showing how well new i7's compare to old ones:

^This is a cherry picked game benchmark to show performance differences when Skylake is allowed to stretch its legs.

One point is that the SB @ 4.5 GHz is going to be faster than a Skylake at stock speeds in many cases, and certainly not far behind in anything. Of course Skylake can be overclocked too, but it's still pretty telling that you can take a CPU from 2011 and overclock it to be as fast as the fastest 2015-16 CPUs. For comparison: Good luck overclocking a 1.5 GHz Pentium 4 to 3.4 GHz (they were also 4 years apart). It's really the dark ages now in terms of CPU evolution.

In the case of the OP, I think getting a faster GPU would make a bigger difference. That would eliminate any crossfire scaling issues and generally provide smoother performance. But it depends on what games/apps are used, too.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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One point is that the SB @ 4.5 GHz is going to be faster than a Skylake at stock speeds in many cases, and certainly not far behind in anything. Of course Skylake can be overclocked too, but it's still pretty telling that you can take a CPU from 2011 and overclock it to be as fast as the fastest 2015-16 CPUs. For comparison: Good luck overclocking a 1.5 GHz Pentium 4 to 3.4 GHz (they were also 4 years apart). It's really the dark ages now in terms of CPU evolution.

In the case of the OP, I think getting a faster GPU would make a bigger difference. That would eliminate any crossfire scaling issues and generally provide smoother performance. But it depends on what games/apps are used, too.

I agree a new gpu is best for the op, but I think your numbers are off here. If one goes to 6700k, it will be faster stock than a 4.5 ghz 2500k. The clock speed deficit is only about 10%, while conservatively the ipc gain is 20%, so skylake should be somewhat faster in every case. 2500k is still a great CPU, but starting to fall behind a bit, and even more so as games start to utilize hyper threading.
 

Face2Face

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2001
4,100
215
106
I can say playing GTA V @ 1440p, my 3570K is nearly at 100% CPU usage and is bottle necking my GTX 780 in parts. It's been a great gaming CPU, but my 5820K has been ordered because I need moar cores!
 
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Brunnis

Senior member
Nov 15, 2004
506
71
91
I agree a new gpu is best for the op, but I think your numbers are off here. If one goes to 6700k, it will be faster stock than a 4.5 ghz 2500k. The clock speed deficit is only about 10%, while conservatively the ipc gain is 20%, so skylake should be somewhat faster in every case. 2500k is still a great CPU, but starting to fall behind a bit, and even more so as games start to utilize hyper threading.
Yes, the 6700K is faster for sure, but the op's overclocked 2500K should be around the level of a stock Core i5-6600. I doubt people would consider a 6600 much of a bottleneck for the vast majority of gaming cases.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,353
15,748
136
One point is that the SB @ 4.5 GHz is going to be faster than a Skylake at stock speeds in many cases, and certainly not far behind in anything. Of course Skylake can be overclocked too, but it's still pretty telling that you can take a CPU from 2011 and overclock it to be as fast as the fastest 2015-16 CPUs. For comparison: Good luck overclocking a 1.5 GHz Pentium 4 to 3.4 GHz (they were also 4 years apart). It's really the dark ages now in terms of CPU evolution.

In the case of the OP, I think getting a faster GPU would make a bigger difference. That would eliminate any crossfire scaling issues and generally provide smoother performance. But it depends on what games/apps are used, too.

+1

Also, what software today requires an overclocked skylake to operate at acceptable levels? None? Right. I'd keep the sandy.