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2500+ Barton vs. P4 2.4c - Worth the price difference?

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Originally posted by: Johnbear007
Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
2500+ Barton vs. P4 2.4c - Worth the price difference?

hmmm... let see here.
$ 171 for 2400MHz = $0.07/MHz
$ 92 for 1833MHz = $0.05/MHz

Considering that the price per MHz is nearly the same.
Why not get the faster of the two? Especially considering you have upgrade room being the AMD's are going through a huge board change soon. If later on down the road you want to upgrade your CPU. No problem, buy a new one. With AMD if you'll want a newer CPU, you'll need to get another motherboard and what not. So that would make it seem to me like AMD's are more expensive at the moment.

Your missing the point. Clock for clock a Athlon performs better than a P4. So that 1833 = roughly 2.4 ghz of P4 power.
You can't compare them clock for clock like that. It seriously distorts the picture.

For example, while horsepower obviously matter, what matters more when comparing the poerformance of two cars is the 1/4 mile time 😛

Actually, in automotive terms horsepower doesn't mean squat if it isn't tied into proper torque at the right place in the car's power band. That's why a lot of European cars tend ride better than Japanese cars during day to day driving - they tend to max out their torque at lower RPMs, giving you good acceleration at the stop lights and on ramps without having to rev up the engine in neutral. If you've ever compared a Honda to a VW by test-driving them, you find that even though the Honda will go faster in the end the VW just feels nicer to drive around town in stop and go traffic (the kind of traffic you spend most of your time in anyway).

The Athlon/Pentium thing is the same way. You have to choose what it is going to be used for. For general business, the Athlon does better. If you play Unreal Tournament, the game almost always plays better on AMD chips because the code is more optimized for 3D Now! than SSE or MMX. The P4 is best when it comes to DCC work and Quake-derived games (and presumably Doom III). In the end, what it came down to for me was cost. With an AMD/NF2 based system, I could put together a really nice system for not a lot of money. This is important for me because when you get down to it, a PC system is really pretty disposable. It is spiffy for about a year, tolerable for another year, and by the third year you are ready to give it to your grandmother for her to surf the net on and write letters on. I just don't see the point in spending more than $1000 for a machine that will be obsolete so quickly. The Athlon/NF2 combo lets me maximize the dollars I spend while giving me room to grow for the short term as prices drop on upgrade parts (I expect a 3200+ to be down to below $100 in practically no time once the Athlon 64 becomes common).

 
Originally posted by: batmanuel
Originally posted by: Johnbear007
Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
2500+ Barton vs. P4 2.4c - Worth the price difference?

hmmm... let see here.
$ 171 for 2400MHz = $0.07/MHz
$ 92 for 1833MHz = $0.05/MHz

Considering that the price per MHz is nearly the same.
Why not get the faster of the two? Especially considering you have upgrade room being the AMD's are going through a huge board change soon. If later on down the road you want to upgrade your CPU. No problem, buy a new one. With AMD if you'll want a newer CPU, you'll need to get another motherboard and what not. So that would make it seem to me like AMD's are more expensive at the moment.

Your missing the point. Clock for clock a Athlon performs better than a P4. So that 1833 = roughly 2.4 ghz of P4 power.
You can't compare them clock for clock like that. It seriously distorts the picture.

For example, while horsepower obviously matter, what matters more when comparing the poerformance of two cars is the 1/4 mile time 😛

Actually, in automotive terms horsepower doesn't mean squat if it isn't tied into proper torque at the right place in the car's power band. That's why a lot of European cars tend ride better than Japanese cars during day to day driving - they tend to max out their torque at lower RPMs, giving you good acceleration at the stop lights and on ramps without having to rev up the engine in neutral. If you've ever compared a Honda to a VW by test-driving them, you find that even though the Honda will go faster in the end the VW just feels nicer to drive around town in stop and go traffic (the kind of traffic you spend most of your time in anyway).

The Athlon/Pentium thing is the same way. You have to choose what it is going to be used for. For general business, the Athlon does better. If you play Unreal Tournament, the game almost always plays better on AMD chips because the code is more optimized for 3D Now! than SSE or MMX. The P4 is best when it comes to DCC work and Quake-derived games (and presumably Doom III). In the end, what it came down to for me was cost. With an AMD/NF2 based system, I could put together a really nice system for not a lot of money. This is important for me because when you get down to it, a PC system is really pretty disposable. It is spiffy for about a year, tolerable for another year, and by the third year you are ready to give it to your grandmother for her to surf the net on and write letters on. I just don't see the point in spending more than $1000 for a machine that will be obsolete so quickly. The Athlon/NF2 combo lets me maximize the dollars I spend while giving me room to grow for the short term as prices drop on upgrade parts (I expect a 3200+ to be down to below $100 in practically no time once the Athlon 64 becomes common).


Thats a good way to put it. Its good to keep in mind that the price difference is quite significant. I dont udnerstand the people that keep popping in saying that it is not. When it comes right down to it, ill be wanting to upgade again in 6 months anyway,.;

The point is, ill never really be running in a situation where the difference is going to be at all noticeable. ....

 
So are you planning to throw a GeForce FX into that 3Dfx collection? (Since it is kinda the heir to that line, and the cards do carry on the Voodoo 5 tradition of missed product cycles and grotesquely large cards requiring a molex plug).

(Not meant to be a flame, just a friendly jab from a former nVidia loyalist who is now laying a wandering eye towards the new hotness that is the Radeon 9800 and wondering why exactly nVidia had to go and make all the same mistakes that cost 3Dfx the gaming market. That, however, is a discussion for another forum).
 
Originally posted by: cmai
Wow, I appreciate all the replies. I will be doing some gaming but even when I do, I don't require top notch graphics. I do some web graphic design with Photoshop and that's where I notice performance lags the most. From all your wonderful input, I've decided to purchase a 2500/NF7-S combo and spend the extra money on food. =) I think this will serve my purposes just fine.

cmai

Nice!!!! 😉
 
Originally posted by: Johnbear007
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: uunitdwestnd

I don't know what YOU consider acceptable frame rates... but you mentioned a Quake 3 demo at 60 fps. I consider 60 fps the minimum acceptable frame rate. Do I get 60 fps in everything? No... and that's why I'm considering buying a new video card soon. You say you're not running any eye candy, and that's acceptable for you... it's not for me... I like eye candy... and I don't consider a game running in 800x600x16 with no AA and no AF and all details options set to low a quality gaming experience.

60 FPS a minimum?

You have to pay for that. I dont even get 60fps in NWN with my 8500. I run it with all the options on and I cant tell a difference between the 52 fps I get there, and the 62 I get with everything off.

Yes 60 fps minimum. Of course you have to pay for that... nobody's gonna give you a 9800 Pro for free.
rolleye.gif
Try playing UT2k3 or Quake 3 or something along those lines at less than 60 frames per second... I guarantee you'll be able to see a difference between 40 fps and 80 fps.
RPG's are different... they're mostly held back by the CPU, and things move so slow in them that 30-40 fps looks fine. That's the case with a game I'm beta testing right now called Horizons. I normally get 40-60 fps, but in some of the larger towns it gets as low as 20-25.

BTW... 8500's are bottom of the barrel (no offense to you, just stating my opinion) cards for gamers now so it's not surprising that your card doesn't meet my standards... heck, I'm not even happy with my Ti4200 at Ti4600 speed right now. Do I need anything faster? No... would I like something faster? Hell yes!
 
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