Well there's no point in arguing over a future that you've made up in your head. Needless to say, I'm not aware of many people who believe that something similar to what you have written would happen were the US to split up.
Well there's no point in arguing over a future that you've made up in your head. Needless to say, I'm not aware of many people who believe that something similar to what you have written would happen were the US to split up.
You're trying to apply Soviet Union logic to a country that is not the Soviet Union. USSR had no imports, so everything had to be done domestically. Kentucky is not USSR. They don't need to have a financial centre, just like Texas doesn't need Hollywood.
They don't need a financial center, but being one of the primary financial centers of the entire world would certainly be a good thing for them. Since chuck seems to believe that the farm states in the middle would eclipse the coasts long term, it only makes sense that they would want to take the most powerful and profitable industries as well.
All credit cards in the US are located in South Dakota. Looks like they're already doing it.
They would, long term. Look. What top tier talent is going to want to live in a prohibitively expensive stinking New Yawk city with failing infrastructure, power outages, food scarcity, and harsh domicile restrictions? Long term, that city will be attracting less and less talent, because 1.) technology will make actually being there pointless and 2.) the cost (financially and otherwise) would just not be worth the..."perks".
Sure there will be some, but as time goes on it would be less and less of powerhouse. All the while that happens, opportunity exists elsewhere for companies/talent/industries (well, whatever industry NY actually has) to go elsewhere. Elsewhere wouldn't even have to be The Middle. It could, and probably in many cases would, be in other countries. That's just the way the ball bounces.
The Middle would be extremely self sufficient providing they could secure their borders (unlike the present US where we by far and large need to secure our southern border, we'd unfortunately in The Middle have to secure east, west, and south).
If we split all of a sudden the corn being grown in multiple states dies and goes to The Extremes? The soybean? The beef? Cows? Auto manufacturing? Petro?
One would lose the coastal ports, true. Setup either reciprocity agreements with The Extremes to trade food for imported goods, or, even better, trade with Mexico and Canada for Western sourced imports and Canada for Eastern sourced imports. More expensive? Probably. But then those in The Middle won't have a problem producing what we need, or buying Made in The Middle USA. I'd be quite comfortable with such a setup. Those in The Extremes? Well, as they sit in their 500 sq ft. appt. that cost them $500k, smelling their own garbage rotting in the 90 degree summer heat, with the rolling blackouts because their tidal and wind power isn't cutting it powering their city (along with their swimming pools of battery storage), I somehow think they won't see it quite so comfortable. But, that's just me....
Chuck
Sure there will be some, but as time goes on it would be less and less of powerhouse. All the while that happens, opportunity exists elsewhere for companies/talent/industries (well, whatever industry NY actually has) to go elsewhere. Elsewhere wouldn't even have to be The Middle. It could, and probably in many cases would, be in other countries. That's just the way the ball bounces.
The Middle would be extremely self sufficient providing they could secure their borders (unlike the present US where we by far and large need to secure our southern border, we'd unfortunately in The Middle have to secure east, west, and south).
If we split all of a sudden the corn being grown in multiple states dies and goes to The Extremes? The soybean? The beef? Cows? Auto manufacturing? Petro?
One would lose the coastal ports, true. Setup either reciprocity agreements with The Extremes to trade food for imported goods, or, even better, trade with Mexico and Canada for Western sourced imports and Canada for Eastern sourced imports. More expensive? Probably. But then those in The Middle won't have a problem producing what we need, or buying Made in The Middle USA. I'd be quite comfortable with such a setup. Those in The Extremes? Well, as they sit in their 500 sq ft. appt. that cost them $500k, smelling their own garbage rotting in the 90 degree summer heat, with the rolling blackouts because their tidal and wind power isn't cutting it powering their city (along with their swimming pools of battery storage), I somehow think they won't see it quite so comfortable. But, that's just me....
Chuck
More than 50% of all US public companies are incorporated in Delaware but I don't think we would say that Delaware exerts more influence on those companies than New York. Also, exactly where do you think the credit card profits go from the subsidiaries in South Dakota? That's right, their owner, a bank most likely headquartered in New York.
If you want to say that South Dakota runs the credit card industry because they have a bunch of mailing and billing centers go right ahead. I don't really view that as a particularly compelling argument.
I think you have just created a delusional fantasy future in your head that's not really based on anything. What could I even say in response? What I do know is that right now all of those middle states can try and compete with the coasts on attracting the top talent. They can do it today, and believe me they are trying. Unfortunately for them they aren't able to keep up with the ultra-competitive coasts. I find it unlikely that they would be much better off in a split future.
It's also odd that you think the middle area would be able to easily secure agreements with the coasts to get what it lacks in transportation, but that the coastal areas somehow couldn't supply themselves with food. There are plenty of examples of countries in the world today that do exactly that and are extremely wealthy.
Your future is simply not plausible.
Not really fantasy, although it would be funny to watch liberal fantasy self destruct. They of course don't compete with them now because now is one country. There is no affect on The Extreme because The Middle is there to provide the backbone that allows them to be what they are. If you remove that backbone and have The Extremes stand on their own, they would in the short term. But long term they would not.
Where are you going to put all those people? Your pro-Open Borders, so when all the 3rd worlders keep on coming to be the slave labor, and have 3, 4, 5 kids, adding to your space nightmare, your plan is what? You will have zero more space, The Middle won't be giving you any. You are going to do what with all that garbage? It won't be trucked out of The Extreme to The Middle, we don't want it - you deal with it. That deal will be? Dump it into the ocean? Nuh uh...your Extreme is ruled by progressives, which means eco kooks will nix that. Incinerate it? Maybe. Doesn't sound pleasant, maybe you'll do that in the section of the city where the slaves, sorry, I mean, immigrants, live? I guess you could pay for it to be put in a super freighter, disposed of elsewhere. Of course we know that progressives aren't hypocrites, so you'll ensure (not just say you'll ensure, but, actually do it) that it's in an enviromentally correct land fill, right? Riiiighhtt. That's just consumption waste disposal, you haven't touched energy or importing food for a Millions sized city, paying all those people the wages that the progressive base (and, that would be a large large large base) in The Extremes would demand?
Why would not your top talent, instead of dealing with the sh1thole that would eventually be The Extremes, just go to a nicer place that also demands Top Talent? UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, etc?
Where are you going to put all those people? Your pro-Open Borders, so when all the 3rd worlders keep on coming to be the slave labor, and have 3, 4, 5 kids, adding to your space nightmare, your plan is what? You will have zero more space, The Middle won't be giving you any. You are going to do what with all that garbage? It won't be trucked out of The Extreme to The Middle, we don't want it - you deal with it. That deal will be? Dump it into the ocean? Nuh uh...your Extreme is ruled by progressives, which means eco kooks will nix that. Incinerate it? Maybe. Doesn't sound pleasant, maybe you'll do that in the section of the city where the slaves, sorry, I mean, immigrants, live? I guess you could pay for it to be put in a super freighter, disposed of elsewhere. Of course we know that progressives aren't hypocrites, so you'll ensure (not just say you'll ensure, but, actually do it) that it's in an enviromentally correct land fill, right? Riiiighhtt. That's just consumption waste disposal, you haven't touched energy or importing food for a Millions sized city, paying all those people the wages that the progressive base (and, that would be a large large large base) in The Extremes would demand?
Why would not your top talent, instead of dealing with the sh1thole that would eventually be The Extremes, just go to a nicer place that also demands Top Talent? UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, etc?
Russia and China are both horrible shitty countries, so they're out. The other 3 already have top tier talent. Most of the light rail specialists we have in the office right now are from the UK. One guy was originally from New Zealand, but he also lived in Japan and I think Germany. Engineers don't seem to have boundaries.
There's lot more. Japan is the liberal dream - super fucking dense. Sleep standing up.
I have a feeling you would be sorely disappointed, although your hate for the coastal areas of the country is pretty strange. (I'm guessing a touch of envy?)
Exactly what 'backbone' do you think the middle of the country provides, and why would it go away if we were separate countries? What do you mean 'where would we put all those people'? While coastal states have much higher overall population density than the middle of the country there is still plenty of room, and more importantly I'm not aware of immigration trends that are flowing from the coast to the middle now anyway. Garbage? Of course you would want it. There's no federal requirement that red states take garbage from the coasts, you do so because the coasts make it financially advantageous for you. Why would that calculation change?
It seems like your idea is that we would form two separate countries and out of spite the center would decide to economically attack the coastal cities in a self destructive manner for no particularly good reason. Who are you going to sell your food to? You have limited transit links that don't use coastal ports. While the coasts might pay more for food, the middle's agricultural economy would collapse. Where are you going to sell your power? All the infrastructure links go to coastal cities. There's no reason for any of this to change as it is mutually advantageous.
As for your other ideas, the coastal states could already pass higher minimum wage laws, etc, etc if they wanted to. There's no requirement for a separate country to do that. Similarly there is the ability to pass stricter environmental standards. This is a very illuminating conversation I have to say, as there seems to be some weird punishment wish fulfillment going on for you here.
I have to disagree. Lincoln may have acted like a tyrant but he was trying to keep the union together to protect America from European bankers egging on the south, trying to divide and conquer. Keep in mind Lincoln wrote a letter to Tsar Alexander II begging for assistance, who then sent the Russian navy to port in America to keep the British and French from entering the war on behalf of the Confederacy.
The entire Civil war was more about privately owned central banking than slavery or state's rights. The Europeans after loosing two wars against us and three privately owned central banking monopolies desperately wanted control of our monetary system. We gave them an opportunity to divide and the civil war was the price for us to pay for our sins of slavery. They primarily supported the south until finally they got the National Banking Acts out of Lincoln to compensate for the devaluation of Greenbacks. They then killed Lincoln at the end of the Civil War to keep their money power over our country and further sent us into a depression by lobbying to pass the Coinage Act of 1873 to ensure that American citizens are forced to either use their fiat bank notes or gold; while they bought up our country for pennies on the dollar.
Lincoln saw part of the union being taken over by the same foreign enemy we had been fighting militarily or monetarily since before the birth of our country. He wasn't a tyrant- he was fighting for us against money changing tyrants.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,656
- 8,197
- 136
Yep.
145 years ago
111 years ago
150 years ago.
Yep, just like today. And Australia? Just like Missouri.
Actually, they are thee because they are taxed less.
Ironic because if you were to declare yourself independent you would need to start getting your money from somewhere, right?
But I am sure they would keep their taxes just as low as when they got additional funding from the Federal Government. Nothing would change.......
God Mode
Platinum Member
- Jul 2, 2005
- 2,903
- 0
- 71
Coastal cities with heavy immigration is what keeps them competitive and wealthy. It makes close relationships and trade with their immigrants home nations easier than some whitebread state that think anyone would trust them or do business with them. I want to see these simpletons secede just to laugh and buy their failed land for pennies. I've been to the south and the midwest. They sure love to talk about neighborly love and casual chatting but never have I seen a more spiteful people filled with so much misplaced hatred. I sometimes think they hate each other more than any other outsider.
cybrsage
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2011
- 13,021
- 0
- 0
It is not legal to forcibly leave the union. The SCOTUS has already ruled on this:
HOWEVER, if Congress votes to allow a state to leave, most likely requiring a super majority, then it is possibly legal.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/case.html
HOWEVER, if Congress votes to allow a state to leave, most likely requiring a super majority, then it is possibly legal.
That is 24% believe it should be illegal. So you think all 24% of people that think it should be illegal are in Texas?
I have no information to refute that, but I would guess that maybe the 24% would be less likely to be from Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona.
The ONLY situation where the midwest would possibly fare better than the coastal metropoli would be in a post-apocalyptic scenario where food and such was more important than trade, transportation and information.
Even then, it would be the cities that would suffer in that case. Places up in Maine and along the coastline itself would still have fishing, and NJ is not called "The Garden State" for nothing (although it should be renamed soon to "The Townhouse State")
Even then, it would be the cities that would suffer in that case. Places up in Maine and along the coastline itself would still have fishing, and NJ is not called "The Garden State" for nothing (although it should be renamed soon to "The Townhouse State")
Start with one of these two-
The Money Masters
The Secret of Oz
I'm too lazy to find text right now, sorry.
the bell curve is proved time and again.. lol! 25% smart to genius... 50% average... 25% dum as a rock!
sm625
Diamond Member
- May 6, 2011
- 8,172
- 137
- 106
If the people decide they no longer want to be beholden to a bunch of Washington DC and Wall Street bloodsucking parasitic maggot scum, they can secede. And depending on the level of jackbootedness of Washington DC's reaction, it could lead to more states doing the same.
Wrong. Lincoln favored a central bank. It was the southerners who favored no central bank.
hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 25,720
- 12,041
- 136
I've not visited, but lived in both places. Not so much the mid-west but the south yes. Stay on the coasts and breathe the free air!
Lincoln favored a central bank owned by the people. NOT by European Bankers.
The same European Bankers financing the south due to the cotton trade. It was a return to pre-revolution colonial times. Is that what we should have wanted after fighting for our independence? A return to exactly how it was before?
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