24/7 server + budget gaming PC build

[greatnoob]

Hey guys, it's been so long since my last PC build (AMD Athlon XP ages) and for those years I've been primarily updated with technology with some decent laptops (Sandy Bridge was my latest).

Anyways, I'm unemployed and I'm in debt of 150k in uni costs. At the moment I'd really like to build an always-on PC that's power efficient and budget friendly but at the same time I'd like to spend a bit more and make the build a bit more futureproof and use it as a gaming PC (1600x900, primarily all new FPS').

Here in Australia the parts for a decent server is quite high so this is what I've opted for at the moment:

ThermalTake Versa H22 Case w/ 500w powersupply- AU $75
Intel Pentium Ivy Bridge G3420 - AU $78
Gigabyte H81m HD3 - AU $79
R7 250 2gb GDDR3 - AU $95
4gb Patriot DDR3 Ram - AU $45
1TB WesternDigital Green HDD - AU $68

The computer needs to act as a low power server and I'd like the HDD to last longer than 4 years. I'm thinking of replacing the 250 with a HD 7750 which costs roughly $120 on eBay - they dont sell any of the 7xxx series in my local computer stores or any EOL products. If possible my mate said he'd be able to sell me his old GTX 650 for $50 so I might skip the GPU entirely until I'm sure. The PC will be on 24/7 and I'll be running mostly server stuff dependent on RAM and very little on the HDD. Also would the Greens be good for something running 24/7? Does the HDD idle when not in use or am I asking for too much for this build?

These are the parts list and the accompanying prices:
http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

Thanks and I'd love to hear everybody's recommendations (I'm not good with picking components so everything helps)

 

[mindless1]

Hard to say on a lot of that stuff since it depends on how much you prioritize certain things vs paying down student loans... but a few thoughts.

ThermalTake 500W are junk and won't hold up long enough running 24/7. I don't know what the best value is for a long life PSU in Australia, but it sure isn't Thermaltake.

The green HDD uses a "little" less power, but for gaming where there are thousands of small files to do a level load you will notice the difference so for a one HDD system with no SSD in it, I'd get a 7200 RPM HDD.

Because it will also be the HDD running windows, you can't expect it to ever spin down or at least not for long, so the idle power state difference otherwise might be only a couple watts.

4GB memory seems on the low side for a new build, certainly not a future-proof one.

You may be asking too much for the build if online gaming ping times are important and the server will also be getting a fair amount of traffic.

 

[greatnoob]

Hard to say on a lot of that stuff since it depends on how much you prioritize certain things vs paying down student loans... but a few thoughts.

ThermalTake 500W are junk and won't hold up long enough running 24/7. I don't know what the best value is for a long life PSU in Australia, but it sure isn't Thermaltake.

The green HDD uses a "little" less power, but for gaming where there are thousands of small files to do a level load you will notice the difference so for a one HDD system with no SSD in it, I'd get a 7200 RPM HDD.

Because it will also be the HDD running windows, you can't expect it to ever spin down or at least not for long, so the idle power state difference otherwise might be only a couple watts.

4GB memory seems on the low side for a new build, certainly not a future-proof one.

You may be asking too much for the build if online gaming ping times are important and the server will also be getting a fair amount of traffic.

The ThermalTake is one of the cheapest cases w/ a PSU in my local store, I guess if it doesn't stand up to it I can spend a bit more on another case and buy a separate PSU. Would a modular unit be better for something like this or is there a special type of PSU I'd have to buy?

Ah I see, as long as it goes into idle then it'll be fine. As for the RAM, you're right, it isn't enough but the prices are way too high here even for a single stick of 2gb. I'll have to cut back on the RAM to compensate for the PSU and Case and just buy a 2x4 kit later. I'll be running a file server and my own game sever and the occasional Minecraft server might be up once or twice a month. It's mostly meant to act as a home media centre and file server with some occasional gaming.

This is the parts list and the accompanying prices at the store:
http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

Not really the cheapest compared to the US :/

 

[mindless1]

^ Buy a modular cabled PSU if a little unnecessary addt'l tidiness is worth more money to you. Otherwise the gain is nothing a few 3 cent nylon wire ties can't achieve and many PSU now come with a few wire ties in the box.

I don't know what is available in your market to advise about, but many different major brand 500W PSU are better than what Thermaltake puts in their cases. Antec, Seasonic, Corsair, XFX, etc. Try for something 80+ rated or higher.

Yes your prices are a lot higher than sale prices in the US, but memory prices are more expensive everywhere than they ought to be, partly due to the increase in flash memory demand.

 

[mfenn]

Can you tell us what your overall budget is? That might help us figure out where to prioritize costs. Overall, your two goals (power-efficient 24/7 server and budget gaming machine) are kind of at cross-purposes, so some compromises will need to be made.

 

[greatnoob]

Can you tell us what your overall budget is? That might help us figure out where to prioritize costs. Overall, your two goals (power-efficient 24/7 server and budget gaming machine) are kind of at cross-purposes, so some compromises will need to be made.

I'm aiming towards $450 max for now (just for the necessities) and I'm planning on spending another $150 a couple months later, presumably for RAM and a better GPU (I might get a stock R7 250 for now or skip it altogether).

As for the modular PSU, what do you mean by an 80+ rating? Appreciate all your help!

 

[mindless1]

I would not upgrade the memory a couple months later, instead finding a way to start out buying 2 x 4GB modules.

Modular PSU of course means disconnectable cables while 80+ is an unrelated efficiency rating. 80+ is desirable because it indicates a more modern design that is 80% or higher efficiency which reduces heat and wear on the PSU, as well as lowering your power bill. These days I'd almost go so far as to state that any consumer grade PSU that isn't 80+ rated is junk, relatively speaking, at least for the purposes of a system running 24/7.

 

[mfenn]

Given that you want something that can game on a tight budget, I think that an AMD APU is the way to go there. From your price list:

A8-6660K $125
FM2A75M-HD+ $75
Patriot DDR3 1600 8GB $90
Seagate 7200RPM 1TB $68
Corsair CX430 $69
Shaw USB 3.0 GT-GM1 case $33
Total: $460

If you must be strictly under $450, pick up the FM2A55M-HD+ instead. That gives up USB 3.0 though.

 

[greatnoob]

Given that you want something that can game on a tight budget, I think that an AMD APU is the way to go there. From your price list:

A8-6660K $125
FM2A75M-HD+ $75
Patriot DDR3 1600 8GB $90
Seagate 7200RPM 1TB $68
Corsair CX430 $69
Shaw USB 3.0 GT-GM1 case $33
Total: $460

If you must be strictly under $450, pick up the FM2A55M-HD+ instead. That gives up USB 3.0 though.

That seems like a good build, but I have quirks with the Shaw case (it's a cheap case from the store and I think it's crafted for a micro ATX form factor) and the TDP of 100w for the APU.

A G3420 w/ a 7750 has a TDP of around ~110W albeit with better performance. The AMD APU also doesn't seem like a best fit for my needs primarily because of the iGPU and the motherboard - the 1150 socket lets me upgrade from the Pentium to a Haswell i5/i7 in the near future.

I'm willing to spend more than $450 if it impacts the longevity of the build but I'd rather have the barebones for now and "max" it out once I can afford everything else. So the initial cost could be $450-500 but the final cost in the near future could be $800+ for better parts.

I haven't been on the scene for a decade and from what I've figured, AMD is behind Intel again. 32nm vs 22nm... until AMD can regain their loss in the CPU market I'll only be considering their GPUs. It's not favouritism but being able to go from a low cost Pentium to a high-end i7 Haswell with the same motherboard seems like a smarter choice to invest in, rather than choosing an AMD APU on an outdated socket with no option for upgrades if AMD comes back with a competent range of CPUs/APUs against Intel's current offering.

 

[mindless1]

You started out talking about debt and limited budget, but now are talking about wasting away money on a cheap build to upgrade later. This is the most expensive route to take for what you end up with.

AMD is not behind Intel at the price point you're talking about. You want a gaming PC you wrote, and the video is where you're going to be bottlenecked with a current generation AMD CPU, where you would want an upgrade later.

I don't see an i7 upgrade later as a wise choice if funds are so tight, it just doesn't make sense. Put the money into a SSD instead, it will benefit you more.

 

[greatnoob]

You started out talking about debt and limited budget, but now are talking about wasting away money on a cheap build to upgrade later. This is the most expensive route to take for what you end up with.

AMD is not behind Intel at the price point you're talking about. You want a gaming PC you wrote, and the video is where you're going to be bottlenecked with a current generation AMD CPU, where you would want an upgrade later.

I don't see an i7 upgrade later as a wise choice if funds are so tight, it just doesn't make sense. Put the money into a SSD instead, it will benefit you more.

That is true but $500 out of $150,000 doesn't even reach .5% and I definitely won't be unemployed forever (well... I hope not :whiste. I thought it would be wiser to invest in a Haswell MB so I could upgrade my CPU afterwards. If I go with the AMD APU chances are the motherboard would need to be replaced once AMD release their next generation range of CPUs/APUs which is why I' was having doubts.

Ah true that, I was comparing them based on performance but I didn't think about the difference price points being charged by both companies. In that case I will go with the AMD build, yet I'm still not sure the iGPU is as powerful as it should be (I know it's definitely much, much better than Intel's offerings). Would the iGPU be capable of gaming at 1600x900 at mid settings? I remember ATI advertising a new feature back in 2008 that allowed use of dual/tri GPU setup, I'm guessing this won't be possible if I bought a 7750 because of the iGPU, the TDP requirements or rather it'd be useless based on the gain in performance? If that's the case would it be wiser to invest in a dedicated AMD CPU and a separate GPU instead?

I guess you are right. I'll go with mfenn's build and not worry about a CPU upgrade until the foreseeable future - I'll leave that for another rig... though I might add a mid-range AMD GPU after this years refresh, hopefully a <=22nm process this year so I can go with the better mid-range card. Should I hold off from the 7750 and wait for the 8750 (much more powerful, less power draw) or the 8xxx's power efficient equivalent of the 7750?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it a lot!

 

[greatnoob]

After a bit of internet scavenging, the iGPU of the A8 6600k provides similar performance to my laptop's dGPU (Nvidia 550m) which is a bit of a let down :/

I'm going to have to skip the APU and rely on the traditional CPU + GPU setup instead. An AMD CPU is what I'll be buying first. I have an old 9500 GS lying around which I could utilise until I buy a GPU. Am I mistaken on the APU's iGPU performance or should I stay with a CPU+GPU build instead. Any ideas?

 

[MichaelD]

All the advice given so far is spot-on. But you seem to be waffling between "I have a $450 budget" and "I'll build what I need." So here we go, in very broad terms.

These days you don't need to spend $1K on a "livable gaming computer" but you sure won't get one for $500 unless you buy used parts, which I highly advise against. If you intend to game at anything beyond 1024x768 resolution with any amount of detail turned on, let alone "1600x900, primarily all new FPS" you will need a separate CPU and GPU.

Any new "enthusiast system", and yes; you would be considered an enthusiast b/c you're building vs. buying, should never suffer with less than 8GB of RAM.

IME here's where you can skimp and save money. OR NOT.

SKIMP
Case: Go cheap. It holds the parts. Make sure it has enough airflow (even if it winds up loud) and you can't go wrong.
Motherboard: THESE DAYS 99% of all NEW motherboards are just as good as those costing 4x the price...as long as you don't expect to wildly overclock. But DO buy one that has USB3.0. NOT AN OPTION these days.
DVD Drive: No need for a $100 Plextor when a $25 LG will read and burn DVDs/CDs
Operating System: Linux is free, but if you want to game, buy Windows7 Professional. Home is too limiting and you don't need Ultimate.
Hard Drive/SSD: A 2TB HD will hold tons of everything and a 128GB SSD is all you need for a speedy operating system. Small SSDs are so cheap these days that there really isn't much of an excuse for not booting from one
Keyboard and Mouse: You don't need a $100 KB or a $60 mouse to game. I have a $50 wireless KB/MS combo that I game with just fine. You can get WAY cheaper than this if you stick with wired, USB KB/MS
Speakers: Good sound costs money, period. But you can get a 2.1 system with a dedicated subwoofer for cheap these days. I've been trying to sell a 20-year old, beat up but functional 2.1 set for $10 on CL...nobody wants it. (just an example)

Skimp at your own peril (i.e. don't).
Power supply: It is the heart of the system. If it's flaky you'll have all kinds of problems. Stick with known brands. Antec, Seasonic, Corsair, etc.
Memory: Buy known-brand memory. It costs about $5 more per stick than the off-brand crap and is typically guaranteed for life. See consequences of cheap PSU for what happens w/cheap memory
CPU: The brain of the system. Stick with a midrange CPU from either Intel or AMD (though with AMD you can get into their higher-end CPUs for the cost of a midrange Intel). The cheapest CPU from either manuf typically has very limited L3/L2 cache, which basically means an unresponsive system.
GPU: Buy a midrange GPU from either AMD or NVidia. Midrange is where the bang for the buck is. You can buy a nice GPU for $150. Look for sales, rebates, etc to lower your overall cost. A discrete GPU is worth every penny.
Monitor: Every single thing that happens on your computer, you see through this thing. Buy as much monitor as you can afford. These days there is no reason to go with anything but a 1080P HD monitor of any screen size.

Hope this helps.

 

[mfenn]

After a bit of internet scavenging, the iGPU of the A8 6600k provides similar performance to my laptop's dGPU (Nvidia 550m) which is a bit of a let down :/

I'm going to have to skip the APU and rely on the traditional CPU + GPU setup instead. An AMD CPU is what I'll be buying first. I have an old 9500 GS lying around which I could utilise until I buy a GPU. Am I mistaken on the APU's iGPU performance or should I stay with a CPU+GPU build instead. Any ideas?

The first thing that I would like to point out is that computer parts are just about the worst "investment" that you can make. If you go into a build thinking "oh I should get this so that I can spend more later," then 95% of the time you're going to end up wasting money versus if you bought everything in one shot.

Regarding TDP, TDP is the maximum power draw when a chip is completely maxed out. It has nothing to do with the minimum or typical power draw. An APU can power up the CPU and GPU parts independently, so it's very similar to a split CPU/GPU from that point of view.

With all that in mind, I need to ask what your "best and final" budget is. Obviously a discrete GPU is better, but at $450 I couldn't find a way to get one while keeping a decent PSU and HDD.

 

[greatnoob]

@MichaelD Thanks for the heads up! I've been away from the scene for a long time so I have a lot to ask and need a lot of reassurance so I don't buy on impulse and regret my purchase a day later. I'm indecisive because I don't know much about today's computers, mfenn and mindless1 have been helping me decide on a build and clarifying a few terms for me. Thanks for your patience guys, I appreciate it a lot!

@mfenn Right I see what you're saying. I'll be sticking with this rig for a couple of years before building another one down the road for serious gaming.

The $450 mark is my original build's approximate cost (check first post), how much would a cheap AMD mid-range rig cost (i.e., no enthusiast LED fans, case temp monitor, etc.)? That would be what I'm going for (+ 24/7).

 

[mfenn]

What I'd call the bottom-end of midrange would be something like this:

AMD FX-6300 $147
ASRock 980DE/U3S3 $67
Patriot DDR3 1600 8GB $90
Sapphire R7 260X $164
Seagate 7200RPM 1TB $68
Corsair CX430 $69
Shaw USB 3.0 GT-GM1 case $33 - very cheap case, but that's called for when saving money
Total: $638

As you can see, that's a lot more than your budget. For a low-end build, swap the CPU and mobo to:

G3220 $69
GA-H81M-DS2 $65

 

[mindless1]

If you don't care about front USB & audio ports, you might check some local mom 'n pop computer shops for used cases. I used to get Dell et al OEM midtowers for $5 each.

Back then in the earlier ATX era a lot of them had proprietary front panel audio and USB so you had to rewire it yourself, do without, or put in a standard aftermarket I/O module in a drive bay, but these days there are more of them with standard front panel connectors, besides which it seems a better option to just string a USB3 hub from the rear of a system.

Granted, they generally don't have as much air intake area but are usually much quieter than cheap cases stamped out like swiss cheese. Cutting a hole in the middle of the bottom of the side panel for a fan can help a lot, particularly cooling the video card. The cut hole edge will be rough or at least unpainted but can be finished with $0.50 worth of automotive door edge guard molding.

... just an idea, half of my own systems are built into reused OEM cases. The other main limitation of them is not very many drive bays, but certainly enough for a couple 3.5" HDDs then you can put a SSD just about anywhere.

 

[greatnoob]

@mindless1 Ah I remember my old build failing on me. Even with a full sized case the system choked, 2 fans probably wasn't enough back then with the inefficient processor designs and all. I would rather have the USB 3.0 port for that $5 though, it's the difference between waiting an hour and 10 minutes . I might buy an OEM case if I can find one once this build's been retired and use it as a standalone server, minus the graphics card.

@mfenn I'll be going with your build next Saturday, but I'll be checking other nearby computer stores to see if they have any EOL 78xx stocks left. Can I slot in a 7850 with the MB you've listed (since I think it takes up two slots)?

 

[mindless1]

^ Two fans is more than enough (can be throttled back to lower RPM and noise) if they're 120mm. I wouldn't even bother putting a fan in a side panel if it were under 92mm.

I wasn't suggesting to do without USB3, just whether it *needs* to be supported by a case front port. Some boards don't even have USB3 pin headers leaving the only available USB3 ports in the back. Anyway, I like to get a system out of the way, off the desk, then just have a USB hub on the desk. It's tidier to have a hub running from the rear of a system than from the front where the cord is potentially sticking out, in the way.

 

[mfenn]

@mfenn I'll be going with your build next Saturday, but I'll be checking other nearby computer stores to see if they have any EOL 78xx stocks left. Can I slot in a 7850 with the MB you've listed (since I think it takes up two slots)?

Yeah, a 7850 would be a good substitute for the R7 260X. The ASrock board will fit either no problem.