220v dryer outlet wired wrong, wtf?!

[Kwatt]

In this drawing with the neutral connected between R1 and R2 that is not a 208v circuit. It is 2 120v circuits. If the neutral is not in the circuit then it is a 208v circuit. In single phase 120/208v system there is no neutral. The neutral is only required for the 120v.



..
EDIT:
By the way it is a 120/208v system. 240v systems are 3 phase power. In the USA.

 

[wirednuts]

if you have an old 3 prong outlet, and you have a new 4 pin dryer plug... i would probably just replace the outlet. i think the code will love you more, and future generations of people wont have to worry about the same problem.

 

[wirednuts]

In this drawing with the neutral connected between R1 and R2 that is not a 208v circuit. It is 2 120v circuits. If the neutral is not in the circuit then it is a 208v circuit. In single phase 120/208v system there is no neutral. The neutral is only required for the 120v.



..
EDIT:
By the way it is a 120/208v system. 240v systems are 3 phase power.

mmmm alternating current. thats why you dont need a neutral in a 208v circuit, because the remaining electrons flow back on the opposing wire as they switch back and forth in different phases at a wonderful 60hz sorry i like electricity it makes me happy

 

[Modelworks]

EDIT:
By the way it is a 120/208v system. 240v systems are 3 phase power. In the USA.

You got it backwards, it is 120/240VAC for most homes, 208VAC is for 3 phase power.

 

[Kwatt]

You got it backwards, it is 120/240VAC for most homes, 208VAC is for 3 phase power.

Ding Nabit I hate it when I do that!

 

[Leros]

if you have an old 3 prong outlet, and you have a new 4 pin dryer plug... i would probably just replace the outlet. i think the code will love you more, and future generations of people wont have to worry about the same problem.

I have a 4 prong outlet but only a 3 conductor wire. Is connecting neutral and ground really that bad?

 

[Leros]

So.... the ground pin was actually hot, then the neutral was probably still neutral, and the two might be tied together inside the dryer itself. Power would go from the wall's ground wire (actually wired as hot instead of ground) --> into the dryer's ground wire --> internally connected to the neutral wire --> goes back to the wall's neutral wire. A dead short and it runs right through the dryer.
Worst case, you would probably just need to replace the neutral and ground wires leading up to the point where they connect. The brains of the dryer were probably not touched. This likely all happened at the case of the dryer, away from the motor, away from the heater, away from the electronics.

The ground conductor was hot, but it wasn't connected to the ground pin on the outlet. It wasn't connected to the right pin on the outlet either.

 

[jhansman]

I love threads like this. Solid info from the knowledgeable. Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[DSemple]

Ok, bought a new clothes dryer (and washer). Appliance guy delivered it and set it up.

Had to reverse the hot/cold water lines and when I leaned on the dryer and grabbed a hold of the water lines it lit me up good. Hair still won't lay down.

Appliance problem or do I call an electrician?

Thanks,

Don

 

[Ichinisan]

That is truly frightening.

 

[DrPizza]

Ok, bought a new clothes dryer (and washer). Appliance guy delivered it and set it up.

Had to reverse the hot/cold water lines and when I leaned on the dryer and grabbed a hold of the water lines it lit me up good. Hair still won't lay down.

Appliance problem or do I call an electrician?

Thanks,

Don

First thing to check is that the technician installed the pigtail correctly. Hard to believe that he'd screw that up though. Inside 120V outlets, it's pretty easy for a noob/idiot to not know that the hot conductor goes to the brass colored screw, and the neutral to the silver colored. In the absence of the two screws being differently colored, noobs assume it doesn't matter, and other than for safety, this is probably true. But, the hot wire goes to the side of the outlet with the narrower slot. (It's easy to remember by this: which slot is hardest to stick a butter knife into.) Of course, (iirc) code has been changed that new outlets need to have both slots entered at the same time in order to plug something in.

Anyway, if you can see that it's easy to screw up with 2 wires (plus ground), then it's pretty easy to understand that it doesn't take a complete idiot to screw up when there's a black, red, and white conductor (plus ground). Just a 50% idiot.

My recommendation depends on your level of confidence in learning something new. If you have reasonable mechanical skills, then I might suggest turning the breaker off (you can get a $2 voltage tester and test it in each slot to verify there's no power), and opening up the outlet to check the wiring. A few google images and you should know where the wires go pretty easily. It's much less likely that someone would screw up the wiring in a breaker panel. ("Geee, all the other breakers have black and red wires going to them. And this bar here has all white wires going to it. I think I'll put the black wire where the white wires are, and the white wire where the black wires are.")

If you're not confident that you can follow directions that a smart 5th grader can follow, then call an electrician.

 

[Spencler]

I see the last post was 2014 but I was wondering if anyone could help me trouble shoot the dryer I've just rewired. Due to a complete lack of knowledge (and for whatever reason my wife asked me to do it for her), I had install the four prong cord into what was once a 3 prong cord. I watched a video on YouTube but still managed to muff it up. I installed the black as ground and the green on the left side lead. Basically I had switched the green and black by mistake and plugged it in I heard a little noise as it was getting new power but I tried pushing power on and nothing happened. I then realized what I had done. I unplugged it and switch the black and green to where they should have been and then plugged it in again. Now it still won't work. It's obvious I messed something up in the process. Does anyone have any idea what may be wrong now? It's an LG dryer.

 

[NutBucket]

Reversing neutral and ground, while incorrect, should still allow the dryer to work. Did you check the breaker? Do you have a means to check if there's power at the outlet?

 

[Spencler]

Thank you for the quick response. I checked the breaker. I flipped it off then back on. Still nothing. It was not off at all. Just to be clear the green and black were switched around on accident. Then I had swapped them back once I realized. I don't have the equipment to check anything electrical. I was hoping for an easy swap out.

 

[Spencler]

Also this is a new place we moved to. The people in there before had power I believe

 

[deadlyapp]

Might be worth going and picking up a $20 multimeter at home depot or the like to confirm you have power and no bridge to ground. Might want to check if there is a built in fuse in the dryer - you should be able to find information on whether or not there is in the manual for it. It's possible you fried electronics on the dryer, but making the ground wire hot shouldn't murder it immediately.

 

[NutBucket]

Doh! I should definitely read more carefully. I read it that he swapped neutral and ground.

 

[Spencler]

I'll take a look when I get off work here. I'd assume something is cooked. I should have double checked. Dumb mistake on my part. Hoping just a fuse...but my luck would be something more.

 

[NutBucket]

There's likely some sort of reverse protection thing going on. Worst case you need to order a new controller or something but ebay has those relatively cheap.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

goodness. this exact same thing happened to me except 1) my old dryer worked for a few months and started getting not as hot 2) my new dryer blew up immediately after turning it on 3) i determined myself that the outlet was wired wrong with a multimeter

i have no idea how the old dryer continued to work with the ground pin being hot.

Depending on the dryer internals of the old dryer, the heating element was probably getting 120 volts. By dumb luck was that the motor got the proper 120 volts.

The new dryer probably had different wiring schematics for the motor and heating elements so it fried.

 

[NutBucket]

New dryer = control modules. No so simply anymore. But on the bright side they do work better and are more efficient.

 

[HOMONER]

Question on this subject of dryers and the cord wiring. I bought a new dryer from a major home appliance store. They insisted on hooking up the dryer cord. They came in and looked at the receptacle then installed the cord out in the truck. It came in and they plugged it in and worked fine. Well 9 months later I move it and me to a new home. Same receptacle and 220 wiring ( 4 wire) in both homes which are newer and under the new 4 wire code. After a couple months my main breaker outside coming into this home goes. I ask around and get some advice that maybe a 220 device is not grounded right. I open up the dryer and see that they had wired the neutral and the ground to same lug ie the silver/neutral instead of stretching the green ground up to the green screw on the chassis of the dryer. Could this have damaged a main breaker by messing up the grounding? Was this dangerous in the sense of creating a shock hazard? The outside 200 amp breaker switch was just flopping around and not clicking into either the off or on position. There was not any burn or heat marks on the bar it connected to yet I went all the way and had the outside breaker box upgraded and replaced to current model and want to be sure I have resolved the source of the problem. I can not find anything else wrong inside the home. The electrician who wired in the new breaker box ran tests so that part is good to go.

 

[deadlyapp]

Question on this subject of dryers and the cord wiring. I bought a new dryer from a major home appliance store. They insisted on hooking up the dryer cord. They came in and looked at the receptacle then installed the cord out in the truck. It came in and they plugged it in and worked fine. Well 9 months later I move it and me to a new home. Same receptacle and 220 wiring ( 4 wire) in both homes which are newer and under the new 4 wire code. After a couple months my main breaker outside coming into this home goes. I ask around and get some advice that maybe a 220 device is not grounded right. I open up the dryer and see that they had wired the neutral and the ground to same lug ie the silver/neutral instead of stretching the green ground up to the green screw on the chassis of the dryer. Could this have damaged a main breaker by messing up the grounding? Was this dangerous in the sense of creating a shock hazard? The outside 200 amp breaker switch was just flopping around and not clicking into either the off or on position. There was not any burn or heat marks on the bar it connected to yet I went all the way and had the outside breaker box upgraded and replaced to current model and want to be sure I have resolved the source of the problem. I can not find anything else wrong inside the home. The electrician who wired in the new breaker box ran tests so that part is good to go.

I would not expect a mis-wired ground to damage a breaker - in many older homes, the neutral and ground bars are tied together anyways. If it's a 4 wire 220, that has two hot wires, a neutral, and a ground, correct?

Yes, there is potential for a shock hazard, however its probably low.

 

[Greenman]

Neutral grounding won't damage a breaker, but it's contrary to code because in certain circumstances it can energize the appliance.

 

[Greenman]

I would not expect a mis-wired ground to damage a breaker - in many older homes, the neutral and ground bars are tied together anyways. If it's a 4 wire 220, that has two hot wires, a neutral, and a ground, correct?

Yes, there is potential for a shock hazard, however its probably low.

The neutral and grounds are always bonded at the main and no where else.