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20th anniversary of Tiananmen Square massacre.

Zenmervolt

Elite member
It's absolutely amazing that China has done such a thorough job of blacking out any reference to the Tiananmen Square massacre; children today do not even hear about what happened and international news stations like the BBC get their signals blocked.

China's "Great Wall of Silence"

For just a moment, those of us in free nations should be thankful of the good things about our own country and be grateful for the freedoms that we have. Whatever side of the political spectrum we may be on, I think we can all be thankful for everything that we have.

Our own countries may not be perfect and we should always work to do what we can to make them better, but for a moment, let's all recognize the good that we have.

ZV
 
We would do well to remember what governments do to their people. Never should government and dependence mix, else there will be no independence.
 
Hopefully the rest of the world will continue to raise a stink about this so it is not forgotten by the newer generations of Chinese.
 
Tank man

Watching that video, beyond tank man, it's also worth nothing the actions of the driver, who obviously did not want to hit the guy at all and despite being in the military in that oppressive country he saw a human he didn't want to hurt, and so he just stopped his massive tank and the guy climbed on it.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Tank man

Watching that video, beyond tank man, it's also worth nothing the actions of the driver, who obviously did not want to hit the guy at all and despite being in the military in that oppressive country he saw a human he didn't want to hurt, and so he just stopped his massive tank and the guy climbed on it.

So profound, so symbolic... something Gandhi-esque about a man holding a briefcase in front of a column of tanks. Almost brings out a tear every time I see it. I don't think it's a big mystery what happened to the guy 🙁
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Tank man

Watching that video, beyond tank man, it's also worth nothing the actions of the driver, who obviously did not want to hit the guy at all and despite being in the military in that oppressive country he saw a human he didn't want to hurt, and so he just stopped his massive tank and the guy climbed on it.

So profound, so symbolic... something Gandhi-esque about a man holding a briefcase in front of a column of tanks. Almost brings out a tear every time I see it. I don't think it's a big mystery what happened to the guy 🙁

If the government did execute him, i hope they one day release his name so he can be hailed as a national hero.
 
Statement before the US House of Representatives, June 3, 2009

I rise to oppose this unnecessary and counter-productive resolution regarding the 20th anniversary of the incident in China?s Tiananmen Square. In addition to my concerns over the content of this legislation, I strongly object to the manner in which it was brought to the floor for a vote. While the resolution was being debated on the House floor, I instructed my staff to obtain a copy so that I could read it before the vote. My staff was told by no less than four relevant bodies within the House of Representatives that the text was not available for review and would not be available for another 24 hours. It is unacceptable for Members of the House of Representatives to be asked to vote on legislation that is not available for them to read!

As to the substance of the resolution, I find it disturbing that the House is going out of its way to meddle in China?s domestic politics, which is none of our business, while ignoring the many pressing issues in our own country that definitely are our business.

This resolution ?calls on the People?s Republic of China to invite full and independent investigations into the Tiananmen Square crackdown, assisted by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights and the International Committee of the Red Cross?? Where do we get the authority for such a demand? I wonder how the US government would respond if China demanded that the United Nations conduct a full and independent investigation into the treatment of detainees at the US-operated Guantanamo facility?

The resolution ?calls on the legal authorities of People?s Republic of China to review immediately the cases of those still imprisoned for participating in the 1989 protests for compliance with internationally recognized standards of fairness and due process in judicial proceedings.? In light of US government?s extraordinary renditions of possibly hundreds of individuals into numerous secret prisons abroad where they are held indefinitely without charge or trial, one wonders what the rest of the world makes of such US demands. It is hard to exercise credible moral authority in the world when our motto toward foreign governments seems to be ?do as we say, not as we do.?

While we certainly do not condone government suppression of individual rights and liberties wherever they may occur, why are we not investigating these abuses closer to home and within our jurisdiction? It seems the House is not interested in investigating allegations that US government officials and employees approved and practiced torture against detainees. Where is the Congressional investigation of the US-operated ?secret prisons? overseas? What about the administration?s assertion of the right to detain individuals indefinitely without trial? It may be easier to point out the abuses and shortcomings of governments overseas than to address government abuses here at home, but we have the constitutional obligation to exercise our oversight authority in such matters. I strongly believe that addressing these current issues would be a better use of our time than once again condemning China for an event that took place some 20 years ago.

Ron Paul
http://lewrockwell.com/paul/paul534.html
 
I can pretty much agree with RP that our congress should be dealing with other stuff... it reminds me of when city councils get all indignant and pass resolutions condemning some random thing irrelevant to their job and jurisdiction. That doesn't mean we can't all be thankful of what we have and recognize the wrongness we witness around the world. I just don't think our congress should be wasting official time on it in this manner.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Can you post something that you thought of yourself instead of just repeating everything said by Ron Paul??

Coming from the guy who's never posted something of original thought.
 
Didn't you all applaud and wave flags during the Olympics? If this is the case, why become upset about the lack of human rights in China now?
 
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Didn't you all applaud and wave flags during the Olympics? If this is the case, why become upset about the lack of human rights in China now?
I must admit I didn't realize the Olympics was an event celebrating the social and political systems of its host country. I thought it was a sporting event partaken by many countries and changed hands every two years so that various countries that were willing could host the games.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Didn't you all applaud and wave flags during the Olympics? If this is the case, why become upset about the lack of human rights in China now?
I must admit I didn't realize the Olympics was an event celebrating the social and political systems of its host country. I thought it was a sporting event partaken by many countries and changed hands every two years so that various countries that were willing could host the games.

You are quite right, there is clearly no hypocrisy.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Tank man

Watching that video, beyond tank man, it's also worth nothing the actions of the driver, who obviously did not want to hit the guy at all and despite being in the military in that oppressive country he saw a human he didn't want to hurt, and so he just stopped his massive tank and the guy climbed on it.

One of the most symbolic image from that era of tearing down communist walls. The other being Germans uniting on the Berlin wall with sledgehammers and Russian troops protecting Yeltsin from Communist troops.
 
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.

Probably because a large % of this msgboard wasnt even born when this happened nearly 36 years ago. Not a hot topic on the P&N msgboard.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Craig234
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.

Probably because a large % of this msgboard wasnt even born when this happened nearly 36 years ago. Not a hot topic on the P&N msgboard.

It's bad for our national self-esteem. It's in our nature and bias to downplay that in history that does not flatter ourselves.

We're the Greatest!

(just ask us)

 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.

While I disagree strongly with US intervention in other countries insofar as it diverts resources that could better be utilized within our own borders, there is a huge difference between what the US did in Chile (maintaining contacts within a country and providing tactical and logistical, though not physical, assistance to coup leaders) and what China did at Tiananmen Square (send in the military to shoot unarmed students).

Our actions in Chile, insofar as they were used to subvert a truly democratically-elected leader, were absolutely wrong. But it is grossly disingenuous to claim that such actions are on the same order as a country ordering its military to kill its own citizens.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.

And I don't remember seeing a post by a left-winger condemning the Kent State shootings, but I'm not going to take that as an endorsement of the gov't's actions in that incident.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I note how some of use condemn the abuse of power whether by China (massively and consistently) with incidents like the murder of people yearning for freedom in this incident, AS WELL AS when our own government has been involved in things such as the overthrow of Democracy in Chile and the installation of a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of people wanting freedom there, all for our corporations' interests.

But in years I've yet to see one right-winger condemn our Chile acts. Not one post.

Funny thing is, after Pinochet died, a lot of rightwingers (i.e. the National Review) celebrated his life.

That's the difference between American liberals and conservatives.... liberals will decry injustice everywhere while conservatives cheer on injustice when 'their' side does it while decry injustice when the 'other side' does it.
 
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