2023 Self-driving Discussion thread

[Kaido]

Mercedes just became the first Level-3 certified car company in America. The catch is that it's only for Nevada for now. Coming to the 2024 S-Class and EQS Sedan later this year:

Mercedes is the first certified Level-3-autonomy car company in the US

Mercedes on Thursday confirmed its Drive Pilot ADAS now complies with Nevada Chapter 482A, which governs the use of autonomous vehicle technology on the state's roads. That makes Drive Pilot the only legal Level 3 system in the US.

www.engadget.com

Specs:

1. Visual cameras
2. LiDAR arrays
3. Radar sensors
4. Ultrasound sensors
5. Audio mics (to listen for emergency vehicles)
6. Computer to compare onboard sensor data with GPS data to verify vehicle location on the road

Reference for the 6 levels of autonomous driving:

Newsroom Home

Intel Newsroom home page

newsroom.intel.com

 

[Commodus]

It's exciting stuff, but I suspect we'll be at L3 for a while. L4 requires solving issues like inclement weather, tricky side streets and the countless unique traffic scenarios people encounter every day. L5 only really comes when we've addressed virtually everything, including dirt/gravel roads.

 

[Kaido]

It's exciting stuff, but I suspect we'll be at L3 for a while. L4 requires solving issues like inclement weather, tricky side streets and the countless unique traffic scenarios people encounter every day. L5 only really comes when we've addressed virtually everything, including dirt/gravel roads.

I suspect AI will become a huge component of FSD, sort of like how Tesla aggregates real-world driving data to feed its internal data set. I think we're at least 10 years away from anything remotely close to Level 5 FSD. With that said, the modern implementations of drive-assist programs are pretty fantastic. The combination of traffic-aware adaptive cruise control & active lane-centering systems on modern cars works absolutely fantastic for most highway scenarios, especially when coupled with stop & go for low-speed traffic-jam conditions. It really helps out with the low-key stress of driving, especially on long trips!

We just took my wife's Subaru up to Cape Cod to see the sights like Plymouth Rock & whatnot & it was sooooo nice having the Eyesight TACC & LC systems to basically put the entire highway-miles trip on autopilot! Especially with how quickly & automatically it responds to people slamming on their brakes & whatnot. I'm glad the government is starting to add more safety requirements like auto-braking to their list, because like backup cameras, it's really something that should be required on all new vehicles!

Tesla's FSD beta is a little scary at times:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/10oetdb

The comments on the extended driving experiences made a good point that it's more like babysitting someone who is learning to drive. Fun, but nerve-wracking lol:

 

[ISAslot]

Think I could get more for my Tercel if I say it comes with L0 autonomous driving?

 

[Kaido]

I like how the Volvo boss put it:

Will fully autonomous cars ever happen? Not anytime soon, according to Volvo boss

Volvo's global chief has said that full autonomous driving would not happen for a long time to come, despite him confirming that his company has the technology to roll it out now.

www.carsguide.com.au

And, according to Volvo Cars CEO and president Jim Rowan, these internationally recognised levels of autonomy are "nonsense".

"So first of all, this big myth that there's five different levels of autonomy is nonsense, in my opinion," he told Australian journalists recently. "You've got two levels of autonomy. One is your hands on the steering wheel. One is your hands off the steering wheel.

"Hands on the steering wheel is ADAS. There's automatic lane change assist, automatic braking and all that stuff. But you still need to have your hands on the steering wheel. And then hands off."

Mr Rowan added that from a Volvo perspective, the technology for fully autonomous driving "is there already", however, only "in certain conditions", and added that it will be regulation, or lack of, that holds up rollout of the tech.

 

[RLGL]

To me this is a license to either kill someone or be killed in a crash.

 

[Commodus]

To me this is a license to either kill someone or be killed in a crash.

Once the technology is truly ready (good L4 or L5), it'll likely be safer than human driving. The tricky bit is that it'll be a long while before enough L4/L5 cars are on the road that they'll mainly have to anticipate each other, not erratic human drivers.

 

[manly]

It's exciting stuff, but I suspect we'll be at L3 for a while. L4 requires solving issues like inclement weather, tricky side streets and the countless unique traffic scenarios people encounter every day. L5 only really comes when we've addressed virtually everything, including dirt/gravel roads.

What do you mean? Elon told us that hundreds of thousands of Model 3 robotaxis would be making their owners 5-figures of annual passive income over 2 years ago.

 

[Commodus]

What do you mean? Elon told us that hundreds of thousands of Model 3 robotaxis would be making their owners 5-figures of annual passive income over 2 years ago.

Ah, but that was two years in Elon Time, which can mean five... or ten... or twenty.

 

[_Rick_]

I rode in the S-class on L3 for a couple of minutes last year (as part of the UX-testing phase) - and going beyond level 2 is a game changer.
Being able to just look down at your phone and do e-mails, without having to worry -at all- about the world outside is massive.
Arguably, within the ODD of the L3 system, most L2 systems will mostly do okay - but the extra validation over an L2 system is what makes all the difference, besides the deeper fail-over capability.

Now L3 in Europe has become harder (but easier to market) since you need to handle autonomous lane changes to avoid obstacles, while going up to 100 kph. So competitors will have a harder time getting that certificate.
It does show that L4 is still a fair bit of a reach, in "consumer electronics".

I'm still hoping that robo-taxis will make it over the next ten years - but it will take some more disruptive tech and marketing, to make it really work.

 

[sdifox]

Think I could get more for my Tercel if I say it comes with L0 autonomous driving?

Get a classic plate for it instead.

 

[Kaido]

Get a classic plate for it instead.

I feel really, really old with the variety of late-model-to-my-brain cars I see driving around with class plates on them

 

[darkswordsman17]

To me this is a license to either kill someone or be killed in a crash.

You did just perfectly describe modern driver's licenses.

I rode in the S-class on L3 for a couple of minutes last year (as part of the UX-testing phase) - and going beyond level 2 is a game changer.
Being able to just look down at your phone and do e-mails, without having to worry -at all- about the world outside is massive.
Arguably, within the ODD of the L3 system, most L2 systems will mostly do okay - but the extra validation over an L2 system is what makes all the difference, besides the deeper fail-over capability.

Now L3 in Europe has become harder (but easier to market) since you need to handle autonomous lane changes to avoid obstacles, while going up to 100 kph. So competitors will have a harder time getting that certificate.
It does show that L4 is still a fair bit of a reach, in "consumer electronics".

I'm still hoping that robo-taxis will make it over the next ten years - but it will take some more disruptive tech and marketing, to make it really work.

I don't see robotaxis disrupting anything soon just because of cost alone.

Even though I'm fairly hyped about autonomous driving systems (its the only way we'll ever functionally get flying cars), short term, our money would be spent making cars that can hook onto tracks that would do 90% of the commute without any input. It'd be faster, more environmentally friendly/efficient, whilst offering the individual experience that people want from their cars. If we did it with electric vehicles (where the cars also charge in the process) it'd do a lot to deal with range anxiety as well.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I like how the Volvo boss put it:

Will fully autonomous cars ever happen? Not anytime soon, according to Volvo boss

Volvo's global chief has said that full autonomous driving would not happen for a long time to come, despite him confirming that his company has the technology to roll it out now.

www.carsguide.com.au

That's nonsense and he should know better. The tech they're using on their cars isn't even up to the level that's on dedicated autonomous vehicles. Just having steer and drive by wire systems doesn't mean its autonomous capable, as the sensor stack and the processing (not just the hardware, but the software) is the actual autonomous part (and having like 2 radar and 1 very limited lidar module is nowhere close to enough). I agree its years from being feasible for average consumers to buy. I think we'll get 95-99% of the way there before then but it'll be limited because only corporations will have the ability to support what it will need (data infrastructure) and they'll limit its reach because of money.