2022 Winter Olympics (Beijing) 2/4/2022

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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,086
2,774
136
my theory:

they're allowing valiyeva to compete because that's one of putin's demands in exchange for pulling back from ukraine
Well, there's a direct threat to life and limb if you cross Putin. The dead cannot speak or retaliate. Such aggression forms its own sort of protection from being held accountable and is a common tactic of violent aggressive criminal types with beautiful social facades.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
^I agree/disagree...mostly disagree when it comes to the inherent responsibilities of these children wrg to what is put into their bodies...more on that later.

But yeah, Russia should have been banned long ago, the Olympic team completely dissolved and not allowed to compete, much less in any international competition. That they can compete at this level when there is an International Doping Agency whose sole responsibility is to enforce this, is utter horseshit. Of course we know the IOC is corrupt to its core, only ever has been, and perhaps only bested in corruption by FIFA. So this isn't really a surprise. I guess if we were serious, as fans, about respecting these rules, we'd all boycott the Olympics and International sports until this is weeded out, but we don't.

The IOC has tried to punish the Russians. From my understanding it is CSA that has blocked that at every turn.

...as for Vileava and other 15 year old athletes being caught for doping, as minors, there is absolutely no possible way they could be held responsible for what is put in their bodies. The idea is completely absurd. Their status as minors holds a legal definition for a reason, with inherent protections reflecting human cognitive development and independence. And yes, these things can only be based on a seemingly arbitrary age, because going from individual to individual creates fuzzy legal arguments that will cheapen the whole enterprise. To say that she is responsible for the trainers and coaches and medical staff that are tasked beyond simply training her--but looking after her, taking care of her health and mental development is asinine. It is the same as arguing that the hundreds of young female gymnasts raped over 3 decades by that piece of shit Larry Fucking Nasser were responsible for being raped--because somehow the mentorship and subordination of authorities no longer means anything wrg to these power dynamics. We know that people, especially children, are susceptible to the advice and expertise of their mentors and that the relationships that are established here only work out of shared trust. Hell, employers generally establish rules for adults in office situations regarding relationships where are either forbidden or necessary to be reported when a direct-power dynamic is involved. We know this is true, so why would we argue that somehow, this 15 year old that spends most of her years away from her parents, training to be the best in the world, living in necessary trust of those completely responsible for her well-being is now responsible for understanding all the things that her expert team members are putting into her body? You think they are actually telling her the truth? lolwtf.

I don't get it, but be serious--there is no moral or legal argument that can be made for her being responsible for what those fucking Russian bastards did to her--those fucks will poison their neighbors just as soon as their enemies, so what do you expect? They've only been emboldened by the complete lack of punishment for wholesale cheating, so why are we surprised?

If anything, I think these kids should be recruited by other countries and allowed to compete for other nations that will have them. Shit, let's extradite these Russian skaters to the US and have them dominate under our flag. Wanna piss off Putin and castrate that bastard at the same time? There's one way to do it. :D
Ultimately it is a team, and if the team is cheating, they must be kicked out of the competition. I wholly agree that most athletes, but especially young ones, will trust their trainers and take what is given to them, but that doesn't mean they can compete doped up. I think if it can be shown the adults provided the drugs to the underage athlete there should be life time bans, while the athlete themselves should get a much shorter ban, but still get a vacation.

Right now there is no indication that her coaches gave it to her, 15 year olds are perfectly capable of doing stupid things on their own. At the moment her defense is that she some how was cross contaminated from her grandpa. The similar cases I know of in the past, the team doctor has always been thrown under the bus as "making a mistake" or "forgetting to declare a medical condition."

Saying a known doper shouldn't be allowed to compete regardless of her age, is not at all the same as saying hundreds of girls and women were responsible for being raped. They are both victims, but one provides an unfair competitive advantage and one provides a life time of pain and ramifications and likely made them less competitive.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,451
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Apparently she was the using "contact high" defense.

The NYT reports that two other heart meds (not banned) were also detected in the test sample.


So did her pop-pop spike her water bottle with three different heart medications? :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: This defense is fucking absurd.

I'm not happy about the decision and haven't dug into it, but my understanding is that CAS did not want to adjudicate the facts of the doping "trial" on such short notice. That doesn't mean that they "cleared her to skate" necessarily, but that they didn't want to deliver the ultimate penalty immediately. Personally I believe in no tolerance for cheating and advocated for a DQ from the competition; but I'm also a little disappointed in the jingoism expressed by Lipinski and Weir.

Ultimately if she's proven guilty of doping, then she should be stripped of the medals from these games. And forever written into the history books as a doper. The crazy thing is that under age 16 do have special protection in doping regulations, so I'm not very optimistic in the long run.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
The NYT reports that two other heart meds (not banned) were also detected in the test sample.


So did her pop-pop spike her water bottle with three different heart medications? :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: This defense is fucking absurd.

I'm not happy about the decision and haven't dug into it, but my understanding is that CAS did not want to adjudicate the facts of the doping "trial" on such short notice. That doesn't mean that they "cleared her to skate" necessarily, but that they didn't want to deliver the ultimate penalty immediately. Personally I believe in no tolerance for cheating and advocated for a DQ from the competition; but I'm also a little disappointed in the jingoism expressed by Lipinski and Weir.

Ultimately if she's proven guilty of doping, then she should be stripped of the medals from these games. And forever written into the history books as a doper. The crazy thing is that under age 16 do have special protection in doping regulations, so I'm not very optimistic in the long run.
It's amazing how many elite Russian athletes have undocumented heart issues.

She should've gotten the boot along with her coaches. I wouldn't be surprised if the other two Russians there under the same coach also have undocumented "heart variations."
 
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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
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They allow her to compete even though she tested positive for PED? That is some BS. I get that even if it's unintentional and all that, but to let her compete even after knowing that they found PED in her is unfair for everyone. They don't have to ban her, but she should be DQ'ed even if it's unintentional. I mean track athletes get DQ'ed for false start, so why can't they DQ her for having a substance in her bloodstream that may potentially give her an advantage in competition?
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,086
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They allow her to compete even though she tested positive for PED? That is some BS. I get that even if it's unintentional and all that, but to let her compete even after knowing that they found PED in her is unfair for everyone. They don't have to ban her, but she should be DQ'ed even if it's unintentional. I mean track athletes get DQ'ed for false start, so why can't they DQ her for having a substance in her bloodstream that may potentially give her an advantage in competition?
The Court for the Arbitration of Sport was the one who laid down this decision.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
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Comcast's Olympic coverage kinda sucks, but at least they have some coverage in 4K this year. It's in Dolby Atmos, too. Looks cool, but the ads sound kinda weird.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,185
4,844
126
Did anyone hear if there is a story behind the Olympic ski course starting gate? I keep seeing these two tufts (one on each side of the gate) that were added in the last few days. They look like the top of a wool hat. Is it just someone's sense of humor? It just seems out of place for the Olympics. Sorry that these images are bad, I couldn't find a good screen shot.
1645110003657.png
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,185
4,844
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She has long, gangly legs and I don't find it aesthetically pleasing. But I only know a little more about figure skating than I do about curling.
Figure skating jumps used to involve a lot of power: jump as high as you can with strong legs and hope that will buy you enough time to get in some spins. But now that the scoring system highly values quad jumps and gives very little penalty to falls, the winning skaters need to be able to focus heavily on quad jumps. While powerful legs might be able to do it, relying on power is inconsistent. The consistent quad jumpers tend to be tall and gangly. This shape lets you spin much faster (just like pulling your arms in while spinning makes you turn faster). Putting your arms above your head, while difficult, makes you spin even faster making quads more achievable and you get bonus points for putting your arms up. So, even a moderate jump height from a gangly person lets you get triples and quads.

TLDR: get used to gangly legs in ice skating from now on.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
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I guess if we were serious, as fans, about respecting these rules, we'd all boycott the Olympics and International sports until this is weeded out, but we don't.


Speak for yourself.... I'm so disgusted by the doping BS and the obviously biased judging that I've 99% skipped these Olympics.

Real shame .... some of the best sports-moments I've witnessed were in past Olympics.

If I want to see "fake" competition I'll watch pro-wrestling. :confused:
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,185
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Speak for yourself.... I'm so disgusted by the doping BS and the obviously biased judging that I've 99% skipped these Olympics.
Since many of us still watch NBC over the air or on cable TV, no one will know if most of us boycott them (excluding the few who are Nielsen households). An invisible boycott doesn't change a thing. Boycott the sponsor products and boycott them loudly on social media if you want any chance of meaningful changes. Lack of sales is accurately measured whether you are a Nielsen household or not. But even then I find it doubtful to accomplish much.

I still find the Olympics quite enjoyable. 33 crashes or otherwise skiing off course in the men's Giant Slalom day 1 was quite entertaining. Out of 89 skiers only 63% made it to the bottom. I really enjoy seeing people pushed to the absolute limit. Seeing the joy when they succeed and seeing how hard their task is when they fail. I've enjoyed seeing several world records set in various events. There was an obvious bad judge score on snowboard halfpipe, but the guy still won anyways so it didn't affect the results.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,086
2,774
136
Figure skating jumps used to involve a lot of power: jump as high as you can with strong legs and hope that will buy you enough time to get in some spins. But now that the scoring system highly values quad jumps and gives very little penalty to falls, the winning skaters need to be able to focus heavily on quad jumps. While powerful legs might be able to do it, relying on power is inconsistent. The consistent quad jumpers tend to be tall and gangly. This shape lets you spin much faster (just like pulling your arms in while spinning makes you turn faster). Putting your arms above your head, while difficult, makes you spin even faster making quads more achievable and you get bonus points for putting your arms up. So, even a moderate jump height from a gangly person lets you get triples and quads.

TLDR: get used to gangly legs in ice skating from now on.
As many figure skating experts have noted, some of the Russian quad jumpers employ a technique that involves pre-rotation, meaning that they start twisting their upper bodies before they’ve taken off from the ice, which enables the skater to complete four revolutions before landing. This technique is dependent on the skater being small and light, and puts added strain on the back because the skater isn’t using leg strength as much as she should be; and once the skater starts to go through puberty, she tends to lose her jumps since the technique wasn’t sound to start with. These athletes also tend to retire before their 18th birthdays, often citing back injuries as the cause. (Many of the Tutberidze pupils use this technique on their triples as well, which makes even those jumps difficult to maintain after puberty.)

Well, if there is an age limit is imposed, the trend of 15 year olds and younger doing a quad spamfest could be ended.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
12,086
2,774
136
Speak for yourself.... I'm so disgusted by the doping BS and the obviously biased judging that I've 99% skipped these Olympics.

Real shame .... some of the best sports-moments I've witnessed were in past Olympics.

If I want to see "fake" competition I'll watch pro-wrestling. :confused:
Usually, I find the Olympics boring and don't have the time.

But, I was bored and had to some time to kill.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,354
10,880
136
Since many of us still watch NBC over the air or on cable TV, no one will know if most of us boycott them (excluding the few who are Nielsen households). An invisible boycott doesn't change a thing. Boycott the sponsor products and boycott them loudly on social media if you want any chance of meaningful changes. Lack of sales is accurately measured whether you are a Nielsen household or not. But even then I find it doubtful to accomplish much.

I still find the Olympics quite enjoyable. 33 crashes or otherwise skiing off course in the men's Giant Slalom day 1 was quite entertaining. Out of 89 skiers only 63% made it to the bottom. I really enjoy seeing people pushed to the absolute limit. Seeing the joy when they succeed and seeing how hard their task is when they fail. I've enjoyed seeing several world records set in various events. There was an obvious bad judge score on snowboard halfpipe, but the guy still won anyways so it didn't affect the results.

I thought commenting here WAS "boycotting loudly on social media"?!?

;)


I have one of those "free" Comcast streaming box's that comes with NBC/Peacock and includes most of the Olympics plus I have access to my neighbors YouTube TV (although I rarely use it) so the option to watch IS there.... I've just had no desire to watch.

I also however have no illusions about being in any demographic that the ratings-drones over at NBC care much about and I highly doubt that will be changing.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,657
6,027
136
So different Russians won the Figure skating.....such drama!!!

honestly the drama was off the charts, it was crazy stuff

the silver medalist throwing a fit because she's never won first place in her life. per a translator, she insisted that she hates skating, hates her coaches, hates everyone, and will never go on the ice again.

then there was everyone completely ignoring the gold medalist.

and the bronze medalist from japan breaking down because she probably never expected to win anything.

and valiyeva losing it with cameras in her face while her coach yells at her for not trying hard enough!
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
honestly the drama was off the charts, it was crazy stuff

the silver medalist throwing a fit because she's never won first place in her life. per a translator, she insisted that she hates skating, hates her coaches, hates everyone, and will never go on the ice again.

then there was everyone completely ignoring the gold medalist.

and the bronze medalist from japan breaking down because she probably never expected to win anything.

and valiyeva losing it with cameras in her face while her coach yells at her for not trying hard enough!

yep....so what's the deal with johnny weir?