2022 and the 13th amendment exception = slavery

[blackangst1]

OK, so the original source is odd (Teen Vogue) but as I read the article I spot checked it, and yes, its true. Through an exception in the 13th amendment, something called convict leasing is essentially modern slavery. I had never heard of this, and it really shocks me. Have you guys heard of this?

Is Slavery Still Legal in the U.S.? Yes, Under the 13th Amendment Exception (msn.com)

Visitors have described the drive up to the Louisiana State Penitentiary as a trip back in time. With men forced to labor in its fields, some still picking cotton, for as little as two cents an hour, the prison was — and is — a plantation.

If that shocks you, you’re not alone. Like most Americans, you probably missed the day in U.S. history class when the teacher explained that we abolished slavery — except as punishment for a crime. Or more likely, that lesson never happened.

A recent poll commissioned by Worth Rises revealed that 68% of Americans don’t know that there’s an exception in the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — the amendment celebrated for abolishing slavery. Another 20% think there's an exception if the sitting president decides, as part of wartime efforts, or in the interest of public safety. Thankfully, these exceptions don’t exist, but slavery very much still does.

 

[HomerJS]

I missed the parts that included, beatings, torture, rapes.

I don't have a problem with hardened criminals working for their keep as long as they adhere to labor standards.

 

[VashHT]

I missed the parts that included, beatings, torture, rapes.

I don't have a problem with hardened criminals working for their keep as long as they adhere to labor standards.

I agree with it in theory as well, problem comes up if certain areas start incarcerating more people because they need labor.

I vaguely remember a story about an area that relied a lot on prison labor and was complaining if they incarcerated less people they wouldn't be able to get things done.

 

[KMFJD]

I've known about it for a while and it should be abolished, unpaid forced labor is slavery

 

[KMFJD]

I agree with it in theory as well, problem comes up if certain areas start incarcerating more people because they need labor.

I vaguely remember a story about an area that relied a lot on prison labor and was complaining if they incarcerated less people they wouldn't be able to get things done.

California forest fighters rely on prison laborers to fight fires, once their sentence is up do you think these experienced fire fighters might be able to get a job fighting fires? nah criminal record excludes them.....

'Modern Day Slavery': Prisoner Firefighters Risking Their Lives in California Battling Wildfires an Example of System's Injustice, Say Critics | Common Dreams

"California fights fires with slave labor."

www.commondreams.org

20% of firefighters on the front lines of California's blazes are detained folks. Paid $2 per day and $1 per hour when fighting fires, prison labor saves the state ~$100 million. After finishing sentences, convictions now bar them from the same job.

 

[fskimospy]

I've known about it for a while and it should be abolished, unpaid forced labor is slavery

Sort of. After all capturing someone, transporting them to a new location, and not allowing them to leave is kidnapping but we have no problem with prisons.

As a basic idea it seems fine to me that part of a prison sentence would be a requirement to do labor to upkeep the prison or whatever. Not only is it a cost saving measure it gives people something to do with their day which is probably a net benefit regardless. That being said, I do not think prison labor should be used for any commercial purpose. If you make incarcerating people a profit center you just encourage more of it and that's wrong.

 

[BD:)]

California forest fighters rely on prison laborers to fight fires, once their sentence is up do you think these experienced fire fighters might be able to get a job fighting fires? nah criminal record excludes them.....

'Modern Day Slavery': Prisoner Firefighters Risking Their Lives in California Battling Wildfires an Example of System's Injustice, Say Critics | Common Dreams

"California fights fires with slave labor."

www.commondreams.org

20% of firefighters on the front lines of California's blazes are detained folks. Paid $2 per day and $1 per hour when fighting fires, prison labor saves the state ~$100 million. After finishing sentences, convictions now bar them from the same job.

Our governor fixed that.

Gov. Gavin Newsom signs bill to allow inmate firefighters to work professionally after serving prison time

"Inmates who have stood on the frontlines, battling historic fires should not be denied the right to later become a professional firefighter," Gov. Newsom said on Twitter Friday.

abc7news.com

At least in California this is an optional job and never forced. The prisoners make very little money but are able to whittle their sentences down.
I fully endorse California's approach to prisoner fire fighters .
Most people deserve a second chance.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yes, I've heard of this exception.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Netflix has a good documentary called 13th that examines how the 13th amendment is abused to keep people down.

For example, convicts in CA can volunteer to fight wildfires, and are indeed one of the primary firefighting forces. However, a released convict cannot use this experience to gain a job at a local fire department, which is bullshit.

 

[BD:)]

Netflix has a good documentary called 13th that examines how the 13th amendment is abused to keep people down.

For example, convicts in CA can volunteer to fight wildfires, and are indeed one of the primary firefighting forces. However, a released convict cannot use this experience to gain a job at a local fire department, which is bullshit.

The 13th was from 2016 right?
I will watch it tonight and see how it compares with today.

 

[Leymenaide]

I was invited into one of our nations large prison complexes last year for professional reasons. I was given a tour by the warden. Prisoners were making military uniforms for pennies per hour. With the number of non-violent offenders given long prison sentences how is this anything but slavery.

 

[nickqt]

Yes.

I mean, it's written right there into the Amendment.

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted..."

 

[nakedfrog]

I was invited into one of our nations large prison complexes last year for professional reasons. I was given a tour by the warden. Prisoners were making military uniforms for pennies per hour. With the number of non-violent offenders given long prison sentences how is this anything but slavery.

And then the military gives members an allowance to purchase said uniforms, sold at a mark-up of x...

 

[coldmeat]

Once I've paid all my bills and bought groceries, at the end of the week I'm only working for a couple dollars an hour too.

 

[dank69]

Once I've paid all my bills and bought groceries, at the end of the week I'm only working for a couple dollars an hour too.

You're only supposed to buy one yacht at a time.

 

[theeedude]

Land of the slaves, home of the cowards.

 

[woolfe9998]

I missed the parts that included, beatings, torture, rapes.

I don't have a problem with hardened criminals working for their keep as long as they adhere to labor standards.

I agree, and will extend your reasoning. Prior to the 13A, slavery, when imposed by the state, was already illegal under the 5A because you cannot be deprived of liberty without due process. The 13A was needed to extend that to private parties.

The key here is that you CAN be deprived of liberty WITH due process, meaning once you have been convicted of a crime. Confinement in a jail cell deprives you of liberty no less than does forced labor. Forced labor in a prison setting has been around since time immemorial, and not just in the US. Everywhere.

It isn't really comparable to slavery of the type the 13A banned since that form of slavery was based on race, not whether you committed a serious crime. One says you can be subject to forced labor for doing something really bad. The other says you can be subject to forced labor for being born with a certain skin color which you had no control over. Definitely not the same.

 

[DaaQ]

I will say county is different from prison, but with that said, we were tried to be enticed to work for the institution, to be able to see daylight, other excess freedoms of movement. But it was optional.

Because being a "trustee" came along with a number of issues that would get you in trouble.

I gave em the middle finger and said I'm not working more than picking up and cleaning up after myself, and read alot of books, chess, and spades to fund my commissary.

 

[BD:)]

I will say county is different from prison, but with that said, we were tried to be enticed to work for the institution, to be able to see daylight, other excess freedoms of movement. But it was optional.

Because being a "trustee" came along with a number of issues that would get you in trouble.

I gave em the middle finger and said I'm not working more than picking up and cleaning up after myself, and read alot of books, chess, and spades to fund my commissary.

What state may I ask. Daylight shouldn't be optional.

 

[mect]

I agree, and will extend your reasoning. Prior to the 13A, slavery, when imposed by the state, was already illegal under the 5A because you cannot be deprived of liberty without due process. The 13A was needed to extend that to private parties.

The key here is that you CAN be deprived of liberty WITH due process, meaning once you have been convicted of a crime. Confinement in a jail cell deprives you of liberty no less than does forced labor. Forced labor in a prison setting has been around since time immemorial, and not just in the US. Everywhere.

It isn't really comparable to slavery of the type the 13A banned since that form of slavery was based on race, not whether you committed a serious crime. One says you can be subject to forced labor for doing something really bad. The other says you can be subject to forced labor for being born with a certain skin color which you had no control over. Definitely not the same.

Depends. I view it similar to capital punishment. It would be fine if we had a perfect justice system, but we don't and a significant aspect of its failing is based on a person's race. Merkley has a nice piece on his website.

"Following the ratification of the 13th Amendment, including the Slavery Clause, in 1865, Southern jurisdictions arrested Black Americans in large numbers for minor crimes, like loitering or vagrancy, codified in new ‘Black Codes,’ which were only applied to Black Americans. The Slavery Clause was then used by sheriffs to lease out imprisoned individuals to work landowners’ fields, which in some cases could have included the very same plantations where the prisoners had previously been enslaved. The practice grew in prevalence and scope to the point that, by 1898, 73% of Alabama’s state revenue came from renting out the forced labor of Black Americans.

The Slavery Clause continued to incentivize minor crime convictions and drive the over-incarceration of Black Americans throughout the Jim Crow era and forced labor on infamous prison plantations like Parchman in Mississippi and Angola in Louisiana. The corruption of our criminal justice into a system with embedded discrimination fueling mass incarceration has continued through elements of the War on Drugs, the proliferation of the three strike laws, severe plea deals, and harsh mandatory minimum policies—with continued devastating effects on communities of color.

Today’s mass incarceration policies have driven an $80 billion detention industry and a rate of American incarceration that is nothing short of a crisis, with 2.3 million prisoners—20% of the world’s incarcerated population—residing in the United States. America currently contains 1,833 state and 110 federal prisons, in addition to 1,772 juvenile facilities, 3,134 jails, and 218 immigration detention facilities. There are 80 Tribal jails."

Ahead of Juneteenth, Merkley, Williams Propose Constitutional Amendment to Close Slavery Loophole in 13th Amendment - Merkley

Washington, D.C. – As Juneteenth approaches this weekend, Oregon’s U.S. Senator Jeff Merkley and Congresswoman Nikema Williams (GA-05) have introduced the Abolition Amendment, which would strike the ‘Slavery Clause’ of the 13th Amendment that allows slavery to continue in the United States. This...

www.merkley.senate.gov

 

[DaaQ]

What state may I ask. Daylight shouldn't be optional.

Michigan in the year 2000 or 2001, I cant remember, I was sent for 3 months for 1st offense DUI. Blew a 1.0 and was upset at the time over some stupid shit, legal was .08

I was sent 4 hours north to serve the majority of the 3 months. Some privatized BS. I was actually violated for failure to appear for community service, which consisted of cleaning the Judge's courtroom.

Want more info search Clair county jail.

In 76 days, which is time I served, we were let outside twice.

 

[woolfe9998]

Depends. I view it similar to capital punishment. It would be fine if we had a perfect justice system, but we don't and a significant aspect of its failing is based on a person's race. Merkley has a nice piece on his website.

"Following the ratification of the 13th Amendment, including the Slavery Clause, in 1865, Southern jurisdictions arrested Black Americans in large numbers for minor crimes, like loitering or vagrancy, codified in new ‘Black Codes,’ which were only applied to Black Americans. The Slavery Clause was then used by sheriffs to lease out imprisoned individuals to work landowners’ fields, which in some cases could have included the very same plantations where the prisoners had previously been enslaved. The practice grew in prevalence and scope to the point that, by 1898, 73% of Alabama’s state revenue came from renting out the forced labor of Black Americans.

The Slavery Clause continued to incentivize minor crime convictions and drive the over-incarceration of Black Americans throughout the Jim Crow era and forced labor on infamous prison plantations like Parchman in Mississippi and Angola in Louisiana. The corruption of our criminal justice into a system with embedded discrimination fueling mass incarceration has continued through elements of the War on Drugs, the proliferation of the three strike laws, severe plea deals, and harsh mandatory minimum policies—with continued devastating effects on communities of color.

Today’s mass incarceration policies have driven an $80 billion detention industry and a rate of American incarceration that is nothing short of a crisis, with 2.3 million prisoners—20% of the world’s incarcerated population—residing in the United States. America currently contains 1,833 state and 110 federal prisons, in addition to 1,772 juvenile facilities, 3,134 jails, and 218 immigration detention facilities. There are 80 Tribal jails."

Ahead of Juneteenth, Merkley, Williams Propose Constitutional Amendment to Close Slavery Loophole in 13th Amendment - Merkley

Washington, D.C. – As Juneteenth approaches this weekend, Oregon’s U.S. Senator Jeff Merkley and Congresswoman Nikema Williams (GA-05) have introduced the Abolition Amendment, which would strike the ‘Slavery Clause’ of the 13th Amendment that allows slavery to continue in the United States. This...

www.merkley.senate.gov

If there's a problem with the justice system based on race, then that should be fixed. What you're proposing is, well really, nothing at all. Forced labor is a typical punishment when one is sent to prison. If we end forced labor then we should just end all prison, or at least let all the black people out.

If guilt is not being ascertained in a fair manner, then we should address it. Ending forced prison labor, assuming that is what you're proposing, is not really the way to do it because the people you say shouldn't be there are still confined.

 

[pcgeek11]

When I was a small chap I remember the local prison had a prison farm and the inmates were required to work the farm or various other jobs that supported the prison operations. They also maintained the county roadways.

Now it is another matter entirely when they are farmed out for profits.

 

[Maxima1]

It isn't really comparable to slavery of the type the 13A banned since that form of slavery was based on race, not whether you committed a serious crime. One says you can be subject to forced labor for doing something really bad. The other says you can be subject to forced labor for being born with a certain skin color which you had no control over. Definitely not the same.

You don't have real control in either case. The brain determines it. There is no separate soul thingy that nonsensically can and should have outputted the good decision but then doesn't. A person is just the awareness phenomenon. The environment and genetic inputs in the chain of brain development resulted in that brain function output of doing something really bad.

 

[cytg111]

I think its one of the pillars of corruption? Conflict of interest?

Running a prison for profit, profit used to influence politics to get more prisoners to get more profit, profit used to....